Judge in Rittenhouse case might be a tad biased.

Agema

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It's never a good idea to ask a witness a question you don't already yourself know the answer to.
It's even worse that in that sense, because they did know the answer. After all, if they asked him whether there is something he would like to add to his statement, then they necessarily asked him to change it.

Perhaps what they meant by "change" is whether they asked him to amend some of the existing detail on his statement. In which case, they needed to word their question to the witness much more carefully. That is one of the things lawyers are paid to do, although I guess we all slip up.
 

CM156

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It's even worse that in that sense, because they did know the answer. After all, if they asked him whether there is something he would like to add to his statement, then they necessarily asked him to change it.

Perhaps what they meant by "change" is whether they asked him to amend some of the existing detail on his statement. In which case, they needed to word their question to the witness much more carefully. That is one of the things lawyers are paid to do, although I guess we all slip up.
My analysis of this situation is that the prosecutors know they can't drop the murder chargers because of political reasons but also know that they don't stand much a chance of winning on those, so they are focusing on the lesser chargers and hoping that the jury agrees with the prosecutors on at least one of those.
 

Specter Von Baren

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My analysis of this situation is that the prosecutors know they can't drop the murder chargers because of political reasons but also know that they don't stand much a chance of winning on those, so they are focusing on the lesser chargers and hoping that the jury agrees with the prosecutors on at least one of those.
Didn't the judge open with saying this specific trial is only for the question of murder or self-defense while the others will be dealt with at a separate trial?
 

gorfias

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Very odd. Kyle Rittenhouse is testifying.


I thought Chauvin needed to do so and didn't.

I think K. Rittenhouse should have just let the prosecution wreck itself. We'll see what happens. Judge just yelled at the prosecutor.. IS Yelling NOW... Prosecutor had the right to ask for a reconsideration on an issue and then just brought it up again without such a request... EDIT: He just told prosecutor, "Don't get brazen with me!"
 
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CM156

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Very odd. Kyle Rittenhouse is testifying.


I thought Chauvin needed to do so and didn't.

I think K. Rittenhouse should have just let the prosecution wreck itself. We'll see what happens. Judge just yelled at the prosecutor.. IS Yelling NOW... Prosecutor had the right to ask for a reconsideration on an issue and then just brought it up again without such a request...
You don't need to be a lawyer to know that the judge yelling at one of the lawyers isn't a good sign.
 

gorfias

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You don't need to be a lawyer to know that the judge yelling at one of the lawyers isn't a good sign.
Looks like the Defense won that one. 2 weeks earlier, Kyle said he wished he had a gun on him to protect property in a previous instance. You can't use deadly force to protect property. But this is far more prejudicial than probative.
Suppose Kyle said, "boy, I hope I get to shoot some innocent people at a protest rally 2 weeks from now!" If you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt the guy was, in the particular charged instances, reasonably defending himself from potentially deadly harm, why would previous statements matter? If he did something particularly inciting to cause people to try to harm him, that has to be what is entered into evidence. Not statements made weeks earlier.
 

SilentPony

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A big mistake for him to take the stand, but if he wants to potentially hurt his case then that's his choice to make.
I think its great. Let the jury hear his own words. If he is just a down-home golly gee willikers sweet kid, that should be obvious. No way he's the type of kid who asks a friend to illegally buy him a gun, an AR-15, because it "looks cool". No way he was on a power fantasy, claiming because he was in a police out-reach program he was allowed to carry a gun, and be out after curfew. No way he openly said he had no idea if lethal force was the correct, he just panicked and started shooting until people stopped.

Yup. No way this kid comes off as every call of duty mall ninja who thinks he's a Tier 1 operator badass and he can just go Rambo on people consequence free.
 

Kwak

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A big mistake for him to take the stand, but if he wants to potentially hurt his case then that's his choice to make.
Why wouldn't the person the case is about be required to testify? Is it a normal thing to hear from everyone except the accused in a trial?
 

Baffle

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Heard it was a strange blub-fest by a man who looks uncannily like a pig.
 

SilentPony

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Why wouldn't the person the case is about be required to testify? Is it a normal thing to hear from everyone except the accused in a trial?
Legally speaking an accused has no duty to testify. The defense, technically, only needs to enter a "not guilty" plea, and its the prosecutors job to prove guilt, not the defense's job to prove innocence.
Case like this you'd want him to testify if you thought the jury would be sympathetic, probably a good idea to get him to fake cry and act as if he's really traumatized.
Problem is he's just a CoD player who wanted to recreate his video games in real life, and its coming off that way.
 
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Schadrach

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Why wouldn't the person the case is about be required to testify? Is it a normal thing to hear from everyone except the accused in a trial?
Ever heard someone refer to "pleading the 5th"? The 5th Amendment gives you the explicit right to refuse to give any testimony that may incriminate you in any crime, and that refusal cannot be used against you. In part because there's no guarantee what you would be incriminated of is the same thing you are being tried for - so for example if charged with mugging someone you might be willing to testify that you were at Joe's house at the time and so you couldn't have done it, but refuse to answer what you were doing while there, because Joe is your drug dealer.

Problem is he's just a CoD player who wanted to recreate his video games in real life, and its coming off that way.
Again, it seems weird he would wait until he was attacked then, why wouldn't he just start gunning down protesters if that was the point?
 

gorfias

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Again, it seems weird he would wait until he was attacked then, why wouldn't he just start gunning down protesters if that was the point?
And that comes close to my point. Suppose 2 weeks earlier, he'd been saying he hopes to gun down every protester? How is that material if he, or he actually did, gun down 3 that we have on tape attacking him and nothing else?

If they have footage of Kyle doing something material, ie, pointing the gun at a protestor telling him he intends to kill him without provocation, who cares what he'd been talking about 2 weeks earlier? Simply show that. If you have nothing but the 2 week old statements, you have nothing that should be admissible.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Again, it seems weird he would wait until he was attacked then, why wouldn't he just start gunning down protesters if that was the point?
I've seen this sentiment a few times and I got to say: just because you want to go to a place and get a righteous excuse for violence doesn't mean that you want to immediately become a spree shooter. The kid's an idiot, not (necessarily) a monster
 

CM156

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Why wouldn't the person the case is about be required to testify? Is it a normal thing to hear from everyone except the accused in a trial?
The Fifth Amendment excuses defendants from having to say anything at trial. All the defendant has to do at any trial is show up and enter a plea. They aren't generally required to prove anything or assist the prosecution in any way.
 

SilentPony

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Again, it seems weird he would wait until he was attacked then, why wouldn't he just start gunning down protesters if that was the point?
Why illegally acquire a gun that he thought looked cool? Why travel 20mins away from his home to a protest? Why identify himself as a trained security officer and join an armed militia group to patrol the streets, issuing orders as if they're real law enforcement? Why become a vigilante?
Guns are pretty simple tools. They can be used for one thing. He wasn't walking around with a gun intending to bake bread. He wasn't going clean a pool with the gun stock.
If he picked up a gun off the ground after being attacked and opened fire, that would be one thing.
He didn't though. He already had a loaded, illegally acquired gun and was acting in an official law enforcement capacity. That's a pretty strong indication of what he intended to do.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I'd say the American police being so out of control that it even requires these protests is what's to blame. If they just trained their officers better, rooted out the bad apples themselves and actually responded correctly when these shootings happen then these riots wouldn't have happened to begin with.

The problem isn't so much that the cops let people riot, its that they give people no other choice than to riot.
No they'd still happen. They've happened in the UK too.
Oh, I have.

But I have also been clear that, in my perspective, his degree of self defence in the instances only really alters severity of the manslaughter he is responsible for.
I just hope for your sake you never end up held to your own standards after a break up where your family and threatened and you end up acting with the attacker ending up dead.


Is it at all normal to double check with a witness that they are happy with their statement after it has been given, for instance provide them an opportunity to expand on it if they remembered more details?
I'm guessing not too normal to ask them to change their statement though......

Looks like the Defense won that one. 2 weeks earlier, Kyle said he wished he had a gun on him to protect property in a previous instance. You can't use deadly force to protect property. But this is far more prejudicial than probative.
Suppose Kyle said, "boy, I hope I get to shoot some innocent people at a protest rally 2 weeks from now!" If you've proven beyond a reasonable doubt the guy was, in the particular charged instances, reasonably defending himself from potentially deadly harm, why would previous statements matter? If he did something particularly inciting to cause people to try to harm him, that has to be what is entered into evidence. Not statements made weeks earlier.
It's trying to bias the jury to colour their perception as such


Why illegally acquire a gun that he thought looked cool? Why travel 20mins away from his home to a protest? Why identify himself as a trained security officer and join an armed militia group to patrol the streets, issuing orders as if they're real law enforcement? Why become a vigilante?
Guns are pretty simple tools. They can be used for one thing. He wasn't walking around with a gun intending to bake bread. He wasn't going clean a pool with the gun stock.
If he picked up a gun off the ground after being attacked and opened fire, that would be one thing.
He didn't though. He already had a loaded, illegally acquired gun and was acting in an official law enforcement capacity. That's a pretty strong indication of what he intended to do.
So 5th or 6th time correcting your utter horse shit again.

Kyle was coming of WORK IN KENOSHA when he went to the protest.

There is 0 evidence he portrayed himself as a trained security guard he joined friends answering a call for people to protect part of the neighbourhood and the lot in question.

Police were absolutely aware of them and even thanked them for turning out and were allowing them to act and fine with them acting as such.

Kyle was NOT nor were the "Militia" doing any "Patrolling the streets" like you claim. They were at a lot and stayed at the lot except when Kyle fled TOWARDS POLICE LINES after the first shooting

Why be a vigilante? Because the night before Kyle had stayed at a friends house in Kenosha and they could smell the fires from the friends house and saw it as no-one was stopping the destruction happening
 
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Hades

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No they'd still happen. They've happened in the UK too.
That's kind of a weak argument. There are riots in direct reaction to murders that go largely unpunished if not downright dismissed but maybe they would have happened without that too.
 
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Seanchaidh

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I've seen this sentiment a few times and I got to say: just because you want to go to a place and get a righteous excuse for violence doesn't mean that you want to immediately become a spree shooter. The kid's an idiot, not (necessarily) a monster
Or perhaps he's a monster but not necessarily the kind of idiot who just does a spree shooting without any flimsy justification.