Judge in Rittenhouse case might be a tad biased.

Dwarvenhobble

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Right, but Rittenhouse shot someone. So surely Grosskreutz had a gun in his hand with a clear justification of self-defence: therefore Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz because Grosskreutz acted in self-defence.

What a clusterfuck. And that's a lot of the reason I am deeply skeptical about civilians bearing arms, especially without a lot training.
Gaige initially approached Kyle with raised hands and wasn't shot, he backed away then drew his gun with apparent intent to shoot Kyle (according to his friends posts on facebook). That would be false surrender. As Kyle showed he wasn't a threat (by not firing when he approached hands raised) he proved there was no threat thus nothing for Gaige to defend himself against. Thus Gaige's actions were not self defence as not being shot at initially until he drew and pointed his gun showed Rittenhouse was not a threat.
 

gorfias

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Gaige may face charges for illegally carrying the firearm both due to his conviction and or due to an expired concealed carry licence while concealed carrying.
But those charges are independent of him pointing the gun in Rittenhouse's face. That's assault with a deadly weapon.
I'm comparing this a lot with the Arbery case that just got decided.
Had the 3 convicted credibly argued that they thought (however incorrect) that Arbery was in the middle of escaping while comitting a felony, would they have walked? I do not know, but am reviewing. To my knowledge, they made no such claim. Just that they wanted to talk to him suspecting him of planning a crime (and the trespass does not rise to the level of felony to trigger citizen arrest). Gaige, on the other hand, even if incorrect, thought Kyle an escaping criminal shooter. What if he had shot Rittenhouse dead... but been wrong?

I'm thinking that the credible belief that one is stopping an ongoing serious crime may make the difference. Gaige thought he was, Arbery's killers did not.

Right, but Rittenhouse shot someone. So surely Grosskreutz had a gun in his hand with a clear justification of self-defence: therefore Rittenhouse shot Grosskreutz because Grosskreutz acted in self-defence.
I don't think Grosskreutz was acting in self defense. Like the Arbery case, he was trying to make a citizen's arrest. So, had he shot Kyle dead and been wrong as to why (It has been adjudicated that Kyle was not guilty of a crime) would he be facing murder charges? I think maybe not as in Gaige's case, he at least thought there was a serious ongoing crime, while Arbery's killers, however well intentioned, did not. Maybe.
 
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BrawlMan

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Seriously, fuck Rittenhouse and anyone that considers him the "the good guy/innocent victim".

 

Specter Von Baren

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the one where they literally shot and killed his girlfriend? and he didn't kill anyone? or is this some new thing?
So is the system racist or fucking not?! Do you think the system is all made to fuck up the life of all black people and get white people off scott free or not? What is it?! And if you answer with "No I don't think it always does this." Then why do you look at video evidence of self-defense in the Rittenhouse case and spit in my face and say it's raining?


This is a huge encouragement for the far right. There is simply no other way it would be otherwise. A kid joined a militia and shot some (left-wing, BLM-associated) protestors. Those simple facts mean he was always going to be a poster boy for them, and the fact he was found not guilty just makes it even sweeter, because they'll all dream of nailing some disobedient, disorderly, pinko hippies and getting away with it too.

That he's popped onto Tucker Carlson and met Trump tells us Rittenhouse wants to embrace the support of those fans. No amount of cheap PR "I support BLM" social media posts (whether true or not) matter a damn in the context that he has so happily thrown his lot in with that side - which happens to includes the exultant neo-Nazis.
??????????????????????????????????? What the hell is wrong with you with this case? You're usually one of the most level headed people here yet with this case you've completely gone off your rocker and thrown rational thinking out the window in favor of hot-headed rhetoric. I just don't freaking get why so many people lost their damn minds over this.

Seriously, fuck Rittenhouse and anyone that considers him the "the good guy/innocent victim".

Look Brawlman, it doesn't MATTER what kind of person Rittenhouse is or what opinion he holds. Video evidence, and eye witness testimony show that he shot in self-defense. We don't change laws just because we hate someone because doing that hurts everyone else too.
 
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Agema

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??????????????????????????????????? What the hell is wrong with you with this case? You're usually one of the most level headed people here yet with this case you've completely gone off your rocker and thrown rational thinking out the window in favor of hot-headed rhetoric. I just don't freaking get why so many people lost their damn minds over this.
It is not my problem that you would rather stab pins into your own eyeballs than look at the bigger picture.

You keep making these myopic pronouncements about blah blah politics interfering blah without seeing that this incident was both caused by politics, and had political ramifications. These exist independently of the rights and wrongs of individual actions and the law.

Left-leaning demonstrators were protesting injustice, which was political. A right-militia took it upon themselves to impose order, because that's their view from their political leanings. We can add in issues of gun rights and self-defence, etc.. This was, instrinsically from the off, a highly politically charged scenario and so Rittenhouse's role, whether he likes it or not, instantly made him a cause celebre and poster boy for the US right.

With this background, that he killed three protestors and was found not guilty cannot but be viewed by the US right as a vindication of them and their politics: and I say again, his subsequent hob-nobbing with Tucker Carlson and Trump are as clear proof as it gets of that. They are feting him so much because it plays to their right-wing audience. Across right wing media, the verdict is a "win": not a win for Rittenhouse as a defendant of a singular case, but a win for them and their ideology. He is their "saint" (yes, they have used that term), lighting the way. The more extreme elements of the right are already, across their scummy message boards, discussing how this creates precedent for them to carry out vigilanteism and "defend" themselves more in future. So yes, it has encouraged and enthused them, of course it has. Deal with it.
 

BrawlMan

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So is the system racist or fucking not?! Do you think the system is all made to fuck up the life of all black people and get white people off scott free or not? What is it?! And if you answer with "No I don't think it always does this." Then why do you look at video evidence of self-defense in the Rittenhouse case and spit in my face and say it's raining?



??????????????????????????????????? What the hell is wrong with you with this case? You're usually one of the most level headed people here yet with this case you've completely gone off your rocker and thrown rational thinking out the window in favor of hot-headed rhetoric. I just don't freaking get why so many people lost their damn minds over this.



Look Brawlman, it doesn't MATTER what kind of person Rittenhouse is or what opinion he holds. Video evidence, and eye witness testimony show that he shot in self-defense. We don't change laws just because we hate someone because doing that hurts everyone else too.
He had no business being there, end of fucking discussion. He's no hero, nor a victim. The only decent thing out of this is that his so called "friends/supporters" are ditching his dumb-ass, because R-house just said he supports BLM. They are either abandoning him, saying he's making a "mistake", or just outright saying racist things and dropping all hard N-Bombs with the hard "ER". So once again, they can all go fuck themselves and ride a one way sleigh to hell. If you can't get that through your naive skull, we have nothing left to discuss. Had this man been black, it would not have been "self-defense". All white jury, by the way, racism and systematic abuse is still here. Crying for another dumb, cowardly butt-fuck, wannabe "hero/soldier/patriot" is adding to the problem. Do everyone a favor and stop being part of the fucking problem? You dig? If you don't; I don't care, and I am not budging from this. Deal with it.

If that asshole shot anyone you cared about, you would be screaming for his blood.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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But those charges are independent of him pointing the gun in Rittenhouse's face. That's assault with a deadly weapon.
I'm comparing this a lot with the Arbery case that just got decided.
Had the 3 convicted credibly argued that they thought (however incorrect) that Arbery was in the middle of escaping while comitting a felony, would they have walked? I do not know, but am reviewing. To my knowledge, they made no such claim. Just that they wanted to talk to him suspecting him of planning a crime (and the trespass does not rise to the level of felony to trigger citizen arrest). Gaige, on the other hand, even if incorrect, thought Kyle an escaping criminal shooter. What if he had shot Rittenhouse dead... but been wrong?

I'm thinking that the credible belief that one is stopping an ongoing serious crime may make the difference. Gaige thought he was, Arbery's killers did not.


I don't think Grosskreutz was acting in self defense. Like the Arbery case, he was trying to make a citizen's arrest. So, had he shot Kyle dead and been wrong as to why (It has been adjudicated that Kyle was not guilty of a crime) would he be facing murder charges? I think maybe not as in Gaige's case, he at least thought there was a serious ongoing crime, while Arbery's killers, however well intentioned, did not. Maybe.

I think Kyle having been heading toward police lines at the time may come into play
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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It is not my problem that you would rather stab pins into your own eyeballs than look at the bigger picture.

You keep making these myopic pronouncements about blah blah politics interfering blah without seeing that this incident was both caused by politics, and had political ramifications. These exist independently of the rights and wrongs of individual actions and the law.

Left-leaning demonstrators were protesting injustice, which was political. A right-militia took it upon themselves to impose order, because that's their view from their political leanings. We can add in issues of gun rights and self-defence, etc.. This was, instrinsically from the off, a highly politically charged scenario and so Rittenhouse's role, whether he likes it or not, instantly made him a cause celebre and poster boy for the US right.

With this background, that he killed three protestors and was found not guilty cannot but be viewed by the US right as a vindication of them and their politics: and I say again, his subsequent hob-nobbing with Tucker Carlson and Trump are as clear proof as it gets of that. They are feting him so much because it plays to their right-wing audience. Across right wing media, the verdict is a "win": not a win for Rittenhouse as a defendant of a singular case, but a win for them and their ideology. He is their "saint" (yes, they have used that term), lighting the way. The more extreme elements of the right are already, across their scummy message boards, discussing how this creates precedent for them to carry out vigilanteism and "defend" themselves more in future. So yes, it has encouraged and enthused them, of course it has. Deal with it.
So to break this down Kyle is choosing the side with Trump etc because despite the literal justice system finding him innocent some left wing nut activists still want revenge because they're upset their side now has less pedophiles and violent idiots on it thus because their pedophile and violent idiots have been shown to be stoppable they see their side as less intimidating now?

Also protests, you mean the fiery burning down business kind or actual protests not angry idiots wanting to see the world burn who didn't have the sense to realise or ability to undertake the idea that if you want the world to burn you just help develop weapons as part of research projects.........

This wouldn't have even been a thing for the right but holy shit the left chose to make it one and honestly the left losing fights they choose to take yeh is a win for the right because it kinda shows up the left when they can't take things as a single case and not play it as a symbolic fight because then the right can easily go "This is what the left will do to you, they don't see you as a person, as an individual they only see you as a symbol and if you're not seen as for their cause you are a symbol of the enemy to try and destroy".

You know this shit will be gone in a few months right?
You know this shit happened before when a counter protester at a statue protestors wanted pulled down was chased down and people attempted to attack him and he shot one of them then. Kyle isn't the first one to do this. It's just nuts to me this is the one the left chose to try and make a thing and have been losing their shit over, really this one? Not the case where an actual regular militia member shot a person who didn't have a ton of convictions to their name?
 

Silvanus

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And Rittenhouse was chased down by people trying to attack him.
Both were self defence.
You believe 1) being in your own home, and 2) travelling with a firearm to a protest zone, expecting and prepared for violence, are equivalent situations?

pedophile and violent idiots
This is called "prejudicing the jury". Someone's past is not relevant to whether they should enjoy the protection of the law or not.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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You believe 1) being in your own home, and 2) travelling with a firearm to a protest zone, expecting and prepared for violence, are equivalent situations?



This is called "prejudicing the jury". Someone's past is not relevant to whether they should enjoy the protection of the law or not.
No but I do think shooting at officers who didn't shoot first and being chased down and attacked and firing also aren't quite the same thing.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Also have a stupid thing that went down that came up because the perp happens to be named Kyle Rittenhouse
image0-105-1.jpg
 

Dwarvenhobble

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He had no business being there, end of fucking discussion. He's no hero, nor a victim. The only decent thing out of this is that his so called "friends/supporters" are ditching his dumb-ass, because R-house just said he supports BLM. They are either abandoning him, saying he's making a "mistake", or just outright saying racist things and dropping all hard N-Bombs with the hard "ER". So once again, they can all go fuck themselves and ride a one way sleigh to hell. If you can't get that through your naive skull, we have nothing left to discuss. Had this man been black, it would not have been "self-defense". All white jury, by the way, racism and systematic abuse is still here. Crying for another dumb, cowardly butt-fuck, wannabe "hero/soldier/patriot" is adding to the problem. Do everyone a favor and stop being part of the fucking problem? You dig? If you don't; I don't care, and I am not budging from this. Deal with it.

If that asshole shot anyone you cared about, you would be screaming for his blood.
Yes he did.

He was allowed onto the lot.
He also has as much right to be in public places as anyone else.

It's not the end of fucking discussion just cause you think people have the right to lay claim to the streets whenever they want to throw a temper tantrum that a person the police saw as posing a danger to them who was in the process of stealing a car and kidnapping two kids and a history of violence and criminality got shot. No wonder all the people Kyle shot turned out to have criminal record they were only mad cause one of their own fellow criminals got shot.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Do you actually want to understand a single goddamned thing or fucking not?
yeh I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would like to understand how:

A Half Hispanic kid
Who shot 3 white people
defending a business owned by POCs
had a black videographer act as a witness for his defence and provide footage for his defence
getting off and not being charged
is evidence of the system being built to support white supremacy........
 
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Kwak

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yeh I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would like to understand how:

A Half Hispanic kid
Who shot 3 white people
defending a business owned by POCs
had a black videographer act as a witness for his defence and provide footage for his defence
getting off and not being charged
is evidence of the system being built to support white supremacy........
You don't really want to understand at all, stop pretending you do.



Neo-Nazis are claiming Rittenhouse, because of course they are

 
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Dwarvenhobble

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He doesn't even barely try to pretend anymore. At this point, it's pretty clear who he supports.
yes, Cthulhu, for whatever madness and chaos the old ones can bring will surely make more sense than some peoples claims relating to politics these days

You don't really want to understand at all, stop pretending you do.

Lets be honest, you actually can't explain it and it's all about triablistically aligning with party claims in a move that really is becoming more and more like the insane stuff that goes on in North Korea where people are told to not believe what they know to be reality and rationality and either fear stepping out of line themselves or wish to paint others as easy enemies to pretend to be winning victory to distract from how their political goals and positions haven't really advanced much at all in more than a decade if said people even have political positions and goals anymore other than an amoral desire to "Win" by taking whatever position is needed to to try and claim said win.

I mean if you want you could always prove me wrong and actually try and explain how what I pointed out works but most likely you'll just repeat the same claims again because clearly I an others here are just so weird for not seeing how great and elegant the emperors new clothes are.
 

Kwak

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I mean if you want you could always prove me wrong and actually try and explain how what I pointed out works but most likely you'll just repeat the same claims again because clearly I an others here are just so weird for not seeing how great and elegant the emperors new clothes are.
Agema has eloquently summed it up in post 759 and 765, but given that his simple outline made specter's brain melt, then if the rightwing sympathisers here don't get it, fuck it, why should anyone give a shit?
 
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