The Wheel of Time
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I got into em when I was over 30 and they read fine, basic tolkeineqsue stuff with some more intricate magic systems and lore/politics. It's kind of a timeless classic sort of tale with clear inspirations drawn from various world cultures and whatnot. It doesn't ever really age out.
A person doesn't need to be big or heavily muscled in order to be good with a sword or quarterstaff: they're just not that heavy, with the centre of gravity generally quite close to the hand. Being accurate and fast, good biomechanics is what counts for more. If you've got your technique right, you can easily stop a blow from someone significantly stronger.
Incidentally, there is a medieval fighting treatise that states that a good quarterstaff fighter is able to take on three swordsmen. I might be a little skeptical it's quite that good, but six foot of solid wood with all the versatility of being able to use both ends and moving your hands around for different grips and manoeuvers does make for a very effective weapon.
Skip them.
The first book suggests a perfectly good 1980s sub-Tolkeineque epic fantasy. The second is sort of okay, but you get the sense not much is happening. Then that suspicion that very little happens is confirmed by reading on. I read to book five in the mid-90s, and felt no reason to continue. I did subsequently read both 6 & 7 ~2000, only because I ran out of anything else to read and my flatmate at the time had them.
One of Jordan's primary sins, as Hawki points out, is overdescribing. At vast, terrifying, extent. This is great for worldbuilding for those who value it, but devastating for anyone who wants to get on with the damn book, as it suffocates everything else. After that, as such a baseline 80s sub-Tolkein fantasy, it's just not very creative or interesting.
I can see why anyone out to create a TV GoT me-too would choose WoT, simply because it's extremely famous and easily accessible fantasy. However, the limitations of the source material and the lack of vision and ambition which underpin someone choosing it are signs that it will be doomed to mediocrity. But I guess I'd better watch it to find out.
I started the series last night and got through the first three episodes. The show is very rushed but that is expected considering the books. Though i find it rather odd that the main characters just kinda go, "yeah alright" when told they might be chosen ones.
Also the casting feels like they purposefully went down the diversity quota. People from the same small town isolated from most of the world, all seem to come from crazy levels of different ethnicities.
The characters also have some changes that dont make sense. Perrin, for example has a wife. Mat has three sisters and scumbag parrents. Rand's Aiel background is never brought up and it is never hinting that Tam isnt his real father. Nor does anyone make mention of the Heron marked sword. Just a lot of key things about the characters are changed or never brought up which is maybe done for pacing but also kind of weird because they add shit with other characters that ruins pacing as well.
It's not a bad show though. The trollics and myrdrall look awesome. But the Aes Sedai magic is stupid looking and the way Morraine casts looks like shes doing a very dumb interpretive dance.
Also the casting feels like they purposefully went down the diversity quota. People from the same small town isolated from most of the world, all seem to come from crazy levels of different ethnicities.
The characters also have some changes that dont make sense. Perrin, for example has a wife. Mat has three sisters and scumbag parrents. Rand's Aiel background is never brought up and it is never hinting that Tam isnt his real father. Nor does anyone make mention of the Heron marked sword. Just a lot of key things about the characters are changed or never brought up which is maybe done for pacing but also kind of weird because they add shit with other characters that ruins pacing as well.
It's not a bad show though. The trollics and myrdrall look awesome. But the Aes Sedai magic is stupid looking and the way Morraine casts looks like shes doing a very dumb interpretive dance.
I'd argue book 3 is pretty interesting and I would have loved the series if it had kept going in that vein. But nope, the rest isn't that good, it's way overstretched and has large section that bring nothing (both in each books and also later on entire book). Worse, there's also section that feel like they should have been much longer and instead got cut short, like character going to magic university and leaving after 2-3 months having apparently learned everything they could.
The overdescription is indeed great for world building (the only aspect of the series I'd say is done really well), the problem is that it's not just use in world building section. Everything is oversubscribed, including simple chat between character. We really don't need to know character are constantly playing with their skirt/hair.
Caught up on the first 4 episodes.
I have to say this.
$10 Million per episode. $10 million that's what this show cost
Game of Thrones peaked at $7 Million
Fuck me Sony must be pocketing a decent chuck on that $10 Million as this show barely look better than The Shannara Chronicles which was operating on like maybe $5 Million at most but I'd guess at $3 Million or less
Oh and the Shannara Chronicles was over 5 years ago......
I've not read the books so I'm going in kinda blind on this series but the only place I can really see money being spent is lots of sets that don't get used much and maybe a lot of people to be extras in The Wheel of Time but so far while I'm going to probably stick with it to the end I'm really not that into the show, it's a filler show, good enough to watch but I'm not going to be saying it's a must see or anything like that.
My advice, for what little it is likely worth.
Track down a copy of The Shannara Chronicles Season 1 it's like $10 probably on Blue Ray probably crack open some booze and sit back and laugh at what I nicknamed "The Adventures of Billbo Shaggins" as The Shannara Chronicles kinda knows enough to be somewhat knowing cheesy and silly, I mean it's a series that's high Fantasy Dragon Run basically, post apocalypse new age where the human kind has split into different races and magic is real.
I'd advise against season 2 as it's a let down after Season 1 though. I'm kinda surprised Amazon didn't just buy that franchise up and carry on where it left off as that was more a show they could turn into a Game of Thrones thing not least because of the fact MTV really did push things almost as far as they could go without going full 18 rated.
I have to say this.
$10 Million per episode. $10 million that's what this show cost
Game of Thrones peaked at $7 Million
Fuck me Sony must be pocketing a decent chuck on that $10 Million as this show barely look better than The Shannara Chronicles which was operating on like maybe $5 Million at most but I'd guess at $3 Million or less
Oh and the Shannara Chronicles was over 5 years ago......
I've not read the books so I'm going in kinda blind on this series but the only place I can really see money being spent is lots of sets that don't get used much and maybe a lot of people to be extras in The Wheel of Time but so far while I'm going to probably stick with it to the end I'm really not that into the show, it's a filler show, good enough to watch but I'm not going to be saying it's a must see or anything like that.
My advice, for what little it is likely worth.
Track down a copy of The Shannara Chronicles Season 1 it's like $10 probably on Blue Ray probably crack open some booze and sit back and laugh at what I nicknamed "The Adventures of Billbo Shaggins" as The Shannara Chronicles kinda knows enough to be somewhat knowing cheesy and silly, I mean it's a series that's high Fantasy Dragon Run basically, post apocalypse new age where the human kind has split into different races and magic is real.
I'd advise against season 2 as it's a let down after Season 1 though. I'm kinda surprised Amazon didn't just buy that franchise up and carry on where it left off as that was more a show they could turn into a Game of Thrones thing not least because of the fact MTV really did push things almost as far as they could go without going full 18 rated.
No; but a person who grew up in heartland farm country, close to primary food sources and generally employed or at least raised with tasks involving manual labor don't usually wind up looking emaciated. Now, they've changed his backstory so his build fits this new Mat character. But its an indication of how fundamentally they've changed his character, and it will have consequences down the road in the story. Now, I can see why changing him was a decent idea. In the books he was a healthy kid, but the whole dagger/infection thing really has an effect on his health... that he eventually recovers from. Trying to do the same with an actor (radically altering his build, then building back up)... would be unacceptably unhealthy. Rather than bad CGI for an episode then cast a waif as Mat, they simply opted to change the backstory. Not a bad idea, but it will create differences down the line in the story. And that isn't inherently bad, I hate carbon copy adaptations. That's why I bailed on Game of Thrones after 2 seasons... it was too faithful an adaptation and I got bored with it. But I liked Mat's character in the books. I would like to see THAT Mat with different story happening around that same character. And that isn't going to happen, and its disappointing.
And yes, that quarterstaff thing. That was exactly the lesson the Warder/trainer was teaching the 2 swordmaster students when he had Mat spar against them in the scene I referenced. That the greatest swordmaster who ever lived (in WoT) was only ever defeated in combat once... by a farmer with a quarterstaff.
And I watched episode 4 over the weekend. Its continuing on in a positive direction so far. Enough like WoT to be interesting, but with enough specific changes and faster pacing to make it worth watching.
I finished all four episodes now and all I can say is.....meh. It's ok. I certainly wouldn't call it great, but it's okay. It's following the books decently enough though it understandably adds action because the book has a LOT of boring sections in it so action is needed to keep the show going. But if anything I think the show just showcases how dry and bland the books actually are.
Jordan wrote a great world and he builds it up over the course of the books, but in terms of things actually happening to characters that matter.....very little happens when considering the length of the books themselves.
I never finished the books, but I'd be curious to ask anyone who has read them all if Brandon Sandering makes the last books more exciting.
Jordan wrote a great world and he builds it up over the course of the books, but in terms of things actually happening to characters that matter.....very little happens when considering the length of the books themselves.
I never finished the books, but I'd be curious to ask anyone who has read them all if Brandon Sandering makes the last books more exciting.
I never care for the books and barely only knew about their existence when I was in high school. I see no reason to even bother with the show.
The Sanderson conclusion... he did what I assume is a really good job carrying on what Jordan would have wanted for the series. For better or worse. I think on his own, with no input from Jordan's camp... it may have been better (it definitely would have been shorter.) As it was, it was fine and continued on in the series as well as the better of any of the post book 3 WoT books did. I heard the Sanderson 3 WoT books described as "preparing to march to the last battle, marching to the last battle, and finally the last batle and a post credits scene." That about sums it up. Probably didn't need 3 books, and Sanderson could have condensed it... but it was fine. Very much like a lot of people say Jordan could have condensed books 6-12 into maybe a trilogy or 4 books... but it was fine, just not up to the level of the first 3.
Allegedly, Robert Jordan's plan for the "last" book was... very, very long. That Sanderson turned it into 3 books might be pretty much what Jordan would have ended up doing.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if Sanderson bulked it up. It must have been a nice earner for him, in reputation (he was not a big name back then) if nothing else.
I'm the opposite - I think season 2 is better than season 1. It's far less interested in teenage romance, and gets a bit more gritty, and more morally ambiguous. Purists might lament that it diverges from canon, but I'll take a good season that's a poor adaptation, over a poor season that's an...adequate, adaptation.
See I kinda liked the dumb teenage romance stuff like "Yeh we're in the middle of some massive battle hiding in a hollow but yeh sure totally lets have sex" like it was the pure absurdity of the stuff that went on.
It's a shame they couldn't have found a happy medium as I'll agree plot wise Season 2 was probably more gritty and morally ambiguous but it felt far less fun with them cutting out all the overly cheesy / silly romance elements or cutting them to the bone so it felt like characters just suddenly were madly in love with one another after 1 night of them being in separate rooms in the same building.
Are you referring to when Wil and Amberle have intercourse prior to moving onto Arberlon?
I don't mind that specific scene, or at least, not in of itself. In terms of how it's shot, it's irksome, but it's irksome in a way that much of season 1 is - it's 'sexed up,' appealing to a teenage audience, with its costume design, its music choices, and in this case, cinematography. In terms of the act itself, however, I think it's kind of poignnent - Amberle knows she's fated to become the Elcriss by this point, so this is the last piece of physical interaction she'll have for the rest of her life.
I'd argue that season 2 doesn't cut out the romance though. There's WilxMareth, EretriaxPrincess character, Bandonxelf servant girl, and the Ander love triangle, off the top of my head. Romance isn't a problem for me per se, it's how it's handled. And I'll take season 2 over season 1 on that front, plus numerous others. I mean, per your comments, how many characters in season 2 are "suddenly" in love? Not many, IIRC.
Yes
Yes, on all points.
But for me the Irksome stuff I found more fun and silly things
Not suddenly but they do get quite overly attached while having very little seeming intimacy from what I remember
The main issue with the casting is not the Captain Planet-esque racial backgrounds of the members (btw the funny thing about it is that Rand was considered a foreigner for just being a redhead and that alone was enough to make people suspicious of him lol) but that the Aes Sedai are all too old. They are supposed to cease aging and retain a perfect ageless beauty but wise eyes that make you unsure how old they really are. They just skipped that bit entirely and made em wise old ladies that you can very clearly see are near if not post menopause lol.
See now you've said that I kind of see that as another diversity check point, "We have older women in our show they don't normally see representation"
Yeah but it's hard to cast women like that, and the CGI is already dumb enough to try and make it work in a fake way. Honestly I don't really mind that and the strangely diverse casting choice is whatever.
You see the thing about the diverse casting, while it is cringey, so long as the characters are behaving the way they should I don't really mind that. Nowhere in the books did Jordan say his world is whtie as fuck and claim the brownish people are nothing but savages who want nothing but violence.....oh...yea he did..nevermind.
Anyway it's fine. There are far worse shows out there that obviously only exist to push how awesome gay diversity is (looking at you Batwoman) and while the Wheel of Time isn't great....it's not a bad show either and the source material it is trying to pull from is dry as fuck, so I don't really see how it can be done much better tbh.