World of Warcraft's community council is a failure (because of course)

CriticalGaming

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So in the midst of all the Blizzard internal problems with sexual harrassment and abuse and generally being a bucnh of dogshit. Blizzard has been trying to do damage control around Would of Warcraft. They first removed emotes like /spit from the game entirely, then they started removing /joke from many of the characters possibly joke pool. Then they began to remove "sexual" content from the game like changing paintings of women into bowls of fruit https://www.vgr.com/forum/topic/12236-why-is-blizzard-replacing-women-with-bowls-of-fruit/

Top that off with some other changes like removing NPC's named after devs after those devs were accused of shit.

None of that really mattered to the players because none of that is why the game is bad. And for years and years Blizzard has refused to listen to the playerbase about the problems they have with the game. Players complain about the systems in a given expansion, or they complain about class balance being obviously bad, or they complain about RNg mechanics with loot making it impossible to gear your character correctly. All of these things are ignored until usually the last patch of any given expansion in which Blizzard would finally listen and adjust some of the complaints only to add new problems with the next expansion and the cycle repeats.

So this time around Blizzard has decided to create a council of players that would be hand selected by them for the specific purpose of gathering feedback on the game from a small handful of players that play difference aspects of the game. This way they could in theory gather clearer feedback from a select group of players without all the extra noise that appears on forums with people trolling or whatever. Admittedly it's a good idea, and it's a wonder why they don't listen to these players during BETAs when players warn them that the system in the BETA sucks a bag of balls.

Whatever.

Anyway the Council has been out for about three weeks. And basically all the council does is have access to a smaller general forum on the WoW website. Blizzard has barely responed to any of the feedback given by these hand selected people, and doesn't appear to be listening. So the community council decided to create a discord server in which anyone could join and provide feedback for the game which the community council members could share on this special wow forum through a filter of being a council member that Blizzard should be listening to better.

Well, of course any open discord has trolls and this happened.


But as per usual with Kotaku that isn't quite what happened.


Asmongold interviewed the council members that got instantly banned from the council due to what appeared to happen in the Kotaku article. And the Council member address very specifically the discord message of "too many black people in Stormwind." Because he knows that a lot of european players are joining the discord and many people who can't speak english very well might express themselves inappropriately. So he asked the guy, "are you racist, or do you mean something else." because maybe the player is ba at english and he wanted to give the player the benefit of the doubt to try and reexplain his meaning.

Then what happened is some other users take the messages from discord out of context and have a shit fit on twitter. Blizzard is terrified of Twitter so they instantly ban the council member without any sort of investigation or even asking the council member what had happened.

During the Asmongold interview though the council members talk about the fact that Blizzard gave them no instructions and barely replied to any feedback given by the council members on this special forum. It seemed to be a useless venture entirely done as an illusion to make the community THINK that Blizzard gives a shit about feedback, when even this enhanced feedback forum is ignored and given no direction.

Many community council members that are still technically involved are now protesting the initiative, and demanding interaction and acknowledgement from Blizzard that this isn't just PR bullshit and they are actually paying some sort of attention to the feedback provide. It's frustration from people who still, somehow, clearly love the game and are desperately trying to get Blizzard to make it better. Frankly it's really sad to see, and this just highlights the writing that has been on the wall for a long time now. WoW is done, and there is nothing that will pull it back off the edge it has fallen from.
 

Samtemdo8

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TL;DR WOW is done because even Blizzard is not even doing anything to support this community council initiative they've created.

Which.....really wasn't a problem before hand in my experience with the community. And besides the real problem was what was going on inside Blizzard's offices. Not the player community.

I don't see how this adds any more fuel to fire at this point.
 
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CriticalGaming

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TR;DR WOW is done because even Blizzard is not even doing anything to support this community council initiative they've created.

Which.....really wasn't a problem before hand in my experience with the community. And besides the real problem was what was going on inside Blizzard's offices. Not the player community.

I don't see how this adds any more fuel to fire at this point.
I don't really mean this to add any fuel to the fire that is the overall situation with Blizzard internally. I think it is reasonable that some issues with the game should be separated out from the issues of the real people at the office because issues with the game are the only thing that was public facing for a long time.

I mean this more as a sad moment of even after everything that has happened. Everything the game has gone through and the playerbase it has lost almost exclusively because they refuse to listen to what the players are talking about. That even after all that, their best attempt at trying to gather real feedback that they are supposed to pay attention too, they can't even do that.

The mentality that the players are just entitled complainers is just fucking shocking to me.
 

Samtemdo8

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I don't really mean this to add any fuel to the fire that is the overall situation with Blizzard internally. I think it is reasonable that some issues with the game should be separated out from the issues of the real people at the office because issues with the game are the only thing that was public facing for a long time.

I mean this more as a sad moment of even after everything that has happened. Everything the game has gone through and the playerbase it has lost almost exclusively because they refuse to listen to what the players are talking about. That even after all that, their best attempt at trying to gather real feedback that they are supposed to pay attention too, they can't even do that.

The mentality that the players are just entitled complainers is just fucking shocking to me.
Here's where I'm gonna get flak for but, given my time and exposure to the gaming community in the 15-20 years I've been following this industry and community........players are entitled complainers sometimes.

There are legitimate criticisms like "why is it so grindy to unlock flying for each of my characters"

Over things that are just beyond the scope of the game like "We want player houses and dynamic world" like at that point your asking for a WOW 2 on a new engine. Or things like "this thing is OP" (not really)
 

laggyteabag

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I mean, obviously this isn't going to be the final nail in the coffin, nor is it the biggest fault in Blizzard's recent operations - this isn't even in the same stratosphere - but it seems like every other week, some new controversy leaks out the rotting corpse that is modern-Blizzard.

I cannot think of a bigger reputational explosion, than the one that Blizzard has endured over the past couple of years.

It is truly depressing. But this news story is just slightly funny.
 
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Samtemdo8

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I mean, obviously this isn't going to be the final nail in the coffin, nor is it the biggest fault in Blizzard's recent operations - this isn't even in the same stratosphere - but it seems like every other week, some new controversy leaks out the rotting corpse that is modern-Blizzard.

I cannot think of a bigger reputational explosion, than the one that Blizzard has endured over the past couple of years.

It is truly depressing. But this news story is just slightly funny.
I just feel alone in my enthusiasm for at least the world and characters of Warcraft right now. Especially in the good old days of the writing of the world
 

BrawlMan

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It's a sad situation, but I honestly don't care. Blizzard and World of Warcraft can burn to the ground for all I care, and I would not shed a single tear. All this is just to add another small "disaster" to the pile of bigger fuck ups. All I can say is sucks to be anyone from Blizz or those that involve themselves with WoW. I suggest you all go to the Final Fantasy , when the service come back up of course. Or Dungeon Fighter Online. Any of those options are better. PSO2 is getting a lot of traction; try that.
 
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Samtemdo8

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CDPR didn't burn 30 years of building reputation.
IMO their reputation was already down the toilet ever since Diablo 3 Error 47. No one took Blizzard seriously or gave two fucks about their games except the Blizzard only fans.

Overwatch was an anomaly because it was a brand new IP, and also released on Consoles.
 

Samtemdo8

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It's a sad situation, but I honestly don't care. Blizzard and World of Warcraft can burn to the ground for all I care, and I would not shed a single tear. All this is just to add another small "disaster" to the pile of bigger fuck ups. All I can say is sucks to be anyone from Blizz or those that involve themselves with WoW. I suggest you all go to the Final Fantasy xiv, when the service come back up of course. Or dungeon fighter online. Any of those options are better. PSO2 is getting a lot of traction; try that.
No thanks, Final Fantasy 14 is not the true WOW replacement for me, nor PSO2.

They can fuck off.
 
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CriticalGaming

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No thanks, Final Fantasy 14 is not the true WOW replacement for me, nor PSO2.

They can fuck off.
I dunno that that should be the right mentality going into another game. Becuase you will always be looking for a game to be WoW with basically a different skin. Honestly from reading your posts about WoW previously, I think it might be in your best interest to go explore other games be it FF14 or Guild wars 2 or ESO or whatever.

I think WoW has you trapped in an abusive relationship that you need to separate yourself out of. I know it's hard, it was hard for me to because of so many memories and time investment and such. But WoW is one of those games that will never love you back and you gotta realize the best it has to offer is only the past.
 
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Samtemdo8

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I dunno that that should be the right mentality going into another game. Becuase you will always be looking for a game to be WoW with basically a different skin. Honestly from reading your posts about WoW previously, I think it might be in your best interest to go explore other games be it FF14 or Guild wars 2 or ESO or whatever.

I think WoW has you trapped in an abusive relationship that you need to separate yourself out of. I know it's hard, it was hard for me to because of so many memories and time investment and such. But WoW is one of those games that will never love you back and you gotta realize the best it has to offer is only the past.
You can't just throw away and burn 20 years of lore investment even if the lore has been shitty lately with the current expansion.

And I've played other MMORPGs in my time where modern WOW was boring me, and it hit me that "if I wanna really play these games, I have to invest months to even get ahead and see all the content, and MMORPGs are so long, and I still have a big library backlog of non-MMO games."
 

CriticalGaming

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"if I wanna really play these games, I have to invest months to even get ahead and see all the content, and MMORPGs are so long, and I still have a big library backlog of non-MMO games."
This is a WoW mindset, not every MMO is like this. And it also is hard to quantify "all content" because most people (even you and WoW) don't care about "all" the content. You care about whatever you care about and get what interests you most out of the game. When you're done with the game, move on. But WoW has build this mindet within it's players that they can't possibly play other games because there is so much to do in WoW that if you aren't constantly invested then you are falling behind.

But not every MMO does that. FF14 doesn't do that. There are no infinite systems in FF14, you can very much "beat" the game and unsub until more content comes out. The devs even encourage this mindset because they respect their players and they encourage the playerbase to play other games between content that interests that given player.

ESO has a very sideways progression, you can play and explore whatever stories you find interesting and move on when you finish that.

There is nothing that says you have to do everything in an MMO to actually get value out of it.
 

meiam

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imo ignoring the council is the right move (or rather not making it in the first place would have been, teh short term PR boost isn't worth the long term headache), blizzard doesn't know what to do but that doesn't mean a bunch of rando will know any better. People are incredibly bad at knowing what they really want and by design the people in the council are the wrong one to ask in the first place. Blizzard need to know why people are dropping and find way to attract new player, the people in the council would be people who haven't dropped the game and probably been playing for a really long time, ie literally the wrong people.

WoW became popular on a couple of pillar:
1) MMO were the next big online thing, WoW rode that wave beautifully but it's long past. Currently the hero shooter/fortnite wave is the one at the moment but its starting to abate, I doubt MMO will come back and be the next wave (my bets is stuff like Genshin impact), so that's not something they can count on.

2) They made a casual/themepark MMO compared to everquest, they could double down and make it even more casual, but FF14 got that cornered so it's doubtful that would work.

3) Good lore built from warcraft 3, mmo make an absolute mess of lore and are terrible way to get people excited for new lore. Even now almost 20 years ago the lore is still mostly dominated by character from warcraft 3 because those are the one people care about and no one really give a crap about the one introduced in the mmo. If blizzard could get their head out of their ass and make warcraft 4 in under 2 years and at the same time make a soft reboot of the WoW lore to align with it I think that could work, but it would need to actually be good which might be a tall order for them atm (plus RTS are really not popular atm, maybe consider making a different kind of game set in warcraft world).

But I think their best action would be to just shake down w/e cash they can from WoW and pour the resource into making new IP, overwatch was the biggest thing for a couple years so they should know that they can make new IP and make a shiton of cash from that.

For what's it's worth (ie nothing) as a former semi hardcore wow player I left because raid healing became really boring. But the reason why it was boring was because in the previous expansion (cata) they changed healing to be much more interesting (ie less spamming the same 2 spell and more mana management) and players hated that so they reverse course hardcore and made healing super boring to appease them.
 

Gordon_4

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The mentality that the players are just entitled complainers is just fucking shocking to me.
It doesn’t shock me in the slightest; because to an extent it’s fucking true. The 1% Mythic Raiders/Mythic+ lunatics think all challenge should be at their level and fuck everyone else, and the super casuals would like to be able to cheese basically everything because challenge isn’t what we’re here for.

Now is that a common view? No it’s not but enough players on WoW’s own forums go stick their dicks in that beehive that I don’t blame the attitude for taking root.
 

CriticalGaming

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It doesn’t shock me in the slightest; because to an extent it’s fucking true
I feel like the entitlement has only grown due to Blizzard's behavior towards them. Because Blizzard refuses to address of acknowledge feedback since day 1 basically, players have had to deliver their feedback in more and more extremely obnoxious ways, not just to get Dev attention but also create enough stir on the forums that Blizzard had no choice but to address it.

When you treat people like spoiled brats, then spoiled brats you will create.