Another thread about sexism in video games.

Specter Von Baren

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Depends on who you are talking about. There's a couple that aren't exactly being honest. I won't need to elaborate further, the evidence speaks for itself.
Well I was referencing a meme which is, "It's not much, but it's honest work". And I more meant it in a, "Yep, that there is truly a lot of arguing." way
 
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Specter Von Baren

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Come to think of it, when you start designing multiple characters for games it kinda makes sense to make them close to 50/50 male and female. It simply gives more design options for action figures that the characters essentially are. Still, making female characters appealing means male gaze stuff. No matter what the game companies do, the player base for Apex Legends or Rainbow Six: Siege is 90% male, and those games have equal representation (Siege not originally but through updates).

Writing """realistic""" drama around these rosters is ridiculous. Were the Legends or Operators real, there would be no women. Like, in a recent R6:S cinematic there is this framing that it's a paintball game of sorts that's a popular sport or whatever. The unisex fantasy can be fun. It's a waste they leave the sexual tension to the fans to figure out instead of cringe "realism".
Actually, what exactly does the "female gaze" like? Does anyone here have an idea? And I don't just mean what appeals to women in male characters, what do the women like in the designs of female characters?
 
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As a simmer the acceptance for sex in Sims 4 is because EA knows they can never make the franchise M rated as it sends the wrong kind of message about Sims that it has resorted to the same failed marketing methods their competitors made like Singles and Playboy the Mansions.
The Sims already has sex in it. It's called woohoo, and Maxis keeps adding woohoo locations every expansion to cater to people's sexual fantasies. It's the same with Skyrim. You can already roleplay marriage and children with the Hearthfire DLC. Sex mods don't have synergy to roleplay or gameplay. It's not realism because real life has sex therefore my sex mods aren't degenerate, it's masturbation material.

Meanwhile Skyrim sex modding is rooted firmly in sexual deviancy and misogyny. A majority of the SLab players usually play female characters with the explicit intention of being sexually violated by monsters and other things.
Not really, if you count all the vanilla sex mods together it's like 10% of downloads.

The Sims also has sexual deviancy and misogyny addons, but using those mods isn't acceptable on the Sims subreddit. What is suprising is the absolute normalcy and frivolousness of having WickedWhims installed, and the fact you can do weird stuff with it. But then again with the Sims 2 which I'm more familiar with, there was iffy content that is everyone uses, like the Inteeminator mod.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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The Sims already has sex in it. It's called woohoo, and Maxis keeps adding woohoo locations every expansion to cater to people's sexual fantasies. It's the same with Skyrim. You can already roleplay marriage and children with the Hearthfire DLC. Sex mods don't have synergy to roleplay or gameplay. It's not realism because real life has sex therefore my sex mods aren't degenerate, it's masturbation material.


Not really, if you count all the vanilla sex mods together it's like 10% of downloads.

The Sims also has sexual deviancy and misogyny addons, but using those mods isn't acceptable on the Sims subreddit. What is suprising is the absolute normalcy and frivolousness of having WickedWhims installed, and the fact you can do weird stuff with it. But then again with the Sims 2 which I'm more familiar with, there was iffy content that is everyone uses, like the Inteeminator mod.
What would you describe as non-misogynistic sexual fantasies about women by men? (No I'm not asking for the wet and squishy details. Just a general idea of what you think is acceptable)
 
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Aerith in the FF7R reveal not looking quite doll-like enough for (Japanese) fans, but instead looking like a more realistic but still very beautiful girl? Fans went fucking bananas because her face was a centimeter longer and her eyes a tad smaller.
Are the images reversed or am I reading this wrong? The lighting is different but left is stylized and elf-like with thin face and pointy chin. Left has the caricature features of the original or Advent Children Aerith while the right looks like some random woman. I'd love to see those threads for the full context.

What would you describe as non-misogynistic sexual fantasies about women by men? (No I'm not asking for the wet and squishy details. Just a general idea of what you think is acceptable)
Consensual and with average body types. The idea you can create the perfect sex doll/virtual sex slave and then do whatever is probably what bothers most people. However porn is porn, and people aren't downloading these sex mods for realism and roleplaying.
 

Brokencontroller

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Wait, are you trying to argue that women shouldn't be allowed in media?
Allowed sure but not allowed to be a romantic interest. The only way to avoid stereotyping is to make stories completely unrelatable. The protagonist should only be out to save the world because otherwise his prize Hampster would die, not because he night care about another human being he might have sex with later.
 

Brokencontroller

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Consensual and with average body types.
When people say "average" why do they always mean some stage of overweight?

Like these characters are military, or at least strong and in shape enough to vault over entire canyons. It stands to reason that they wouldnt be fat fucks who cant do ten jumping jacks without needing a nap.
 

Casual Shinji

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Are the images reversed or am I reading this wrong? The lighting is different but left is stylized and elf-like with thin face and pointy chin. Left has the caricature features of the original or Advent Children Aerith while the right looks like some random woman. I'd love to see those threads for the full context.
No, they're in the right order. I think the main issue was the face on the left was too long and "long" faces aren't cute. In this case though most of the complaints came from Japanese fans.
 
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When people say "average" why do they always mean some stage of overweight?

Like these characters are military, or at least strong and in shape enough to vault over entire canyons. It stands to reason that they wouldnt be fat fucks who cant do ten jumping jacks without needing a nap.
Well, depending on where you live most people are overweight.

On a related note fitness is correlated with sexual attractiveness, so a lot of these positive and strong female characters are still incredibly attractive and sexualized even if they aren't feminine in the traditional sense. Even muscular tomboy types are just another extremely common fetish.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Allowed sure but not allowed to be a romantic interest. The only way to avoid stereotyping is to make stories completely unrelatable. The protagonist should only be out to save the world because otherwise his prize Hampster would die, not because he night care about another human being he might have sex with later.
headshake.gif
 

Brokencontroller

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You laugh, but at one point in the development of TERA, these two were the male and female of the same race.



Umm, no they weren't. Those are clearly different race choices. The Popori and Ellin were single gender races and Ellin were actually the "stars" of Tera for a long time, being the only race in the game that can be every class in the game. At least it was when I played a few years ago.
 
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Chimpzy

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You laugh, but at one point in the development of TERA, these two were the male and female of the same race.



Oh, it's the bunny ear lolis. Yeah, figures.
Umm, no they weren't. Those are clearly different race choices. The Popori and Ellin were single gender races and Ellin were actually the "stars" of Tera for a long time, being the only race in the game that can be every class in the game. At least it was when I played a few years ago.
Seems he's right that they were once the male and female of a single race in early development tho, and there are still some traces of that in the game, since apparently almost all Elin game files are still dubbed "popori_f". That info is not hard to find btw. It's on the wiki.
 
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Brokencontroller

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Oh, it's the bunny ear lolis. Yeah, figures.
Seems he's right that they were once the male and female of a single race in early development tho, and there are still some traces of that in the game, since apparently almost all Elin game files are still dubbed "popori_f". That info is not hard to find btw. It's on the wiki.
Shit I didn't know that. I don't think the game ever explained or leaned towards that. Development and what the actual final story ends up being are not always the same thing. But it's probably easier to leave the files coded the same even if they aren't named the same in game. Don't really see what it has to do with the point of the thread though considering, both are unconventional forms and seem to be examples of unique character design rather than the iterative hype sexual design ala Lara Croft or whatever.

Though the game itself has plenty of overly sexy girls like the Castians and normal adult women characters.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
You laugh, but at one point in the development of TERA, these two were the male and female of the same race.
Maybe. I'm not 100% convinced, but it would make sense. Anime does that a lot, more straight up furry/were guys and girls with just weird ears and sometimes a tail.



I know they aren't the same race.... kinda, I suppose both sorta human, but it illustrates my point.
 
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Gergar12

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You laugh, but at one point in the development of TERA, these two were the male and female of the same race.



That game wasn't fun. Then again I can barely play Black Desert Online either, so MMOs aren't my thing.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Actually, what exactly does the "female gaze" like? Does anyone here have an idea? And I don't just mean what appeals to women in male characters, what do the women like in the designs of female characters?
In the circles I run? Jacked, probably feral
 

TheMysteriousGX

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When people say "average" why do they always mean some stage of overweight?

Like these characters are military, or at least strong and in shape enough to vault over entire canyons. It stands to reason that they wouldnt be fat fucks who cant do ten jumping jacks without needing a nap.
It also stands to reason they wouldn't be dehydrated fitness models or supermodels with flawless skin either
 

Brokencontroller

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It also stands to reason they wouldn't be dehydrated fitness models or supermodels with flawless skin either
I mean, they'd probably be dehydrated. But sure their skin is flawless, would you be happy if they had a bit of acne or some blemishes. Seems like small potatoes to make any difference, and really unnecessary considering it's fantasy. The same way actors tend to be too good looking in most cases. You just hand wave that shit away because it's obviously a movie and fake as fuck.
 

Dreiko

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Consensual and with average body types. The idea you can create the perfect sex doll/virtual sex slave and then do whatever is probably what bothers most people. However porn is porn, and people aren't downloading these sex mods for realism and roleplaying.
What would you describe as non-misogynistic sexual fantasies about women by men? (No I'm not asking for the wet and squishy details. Just a general idea of what you think is acceptable)
I think a more important question here would be; "Is having misogynistic sexual fantasies actually misogynistic?" because sure we can all define when something fits that in reality but people have all sorts of fantasies that we do not consider tantamount to the conduct had it been enacted in real life. Violent fantasies are not violence, rape fantasies are not rape, so on and so forth.

The Japanese perspective in particular here is that a lot of the content they have serves as a release, an outlet for people to have those fantasies so that they in fact don't go and enact them in reality. Fundamentally, the views is that EVERYONE has such desires, and that it is not evil, but mere human nature, and we must handle it somehow.

In the west, due to christian thought being the backbone of the civilization, we aspire to be more good than that, so we are imagining into being a type of human without such desires as being possible, and expecting folks to be that human, and judging those who fail at it (or those who fail to hide their failure).


Basically, the things we take for granted are not to be taken for granted, they are miracles, and go counter to our nature to a huge degree, that we must be grateful for them, not see them as obvious stuff not worthy of celebration.


Personally, I think if you can hire a real life woman to do something and she agrees to it without duress, including role-playing as your slave or what have you, no game or book or movie depicting what the woman agreed to do gets to count as misogynistic any more. It's basically the same exchange happening, only you don't even have to inconvenience the woman in the process.






Hurrah, a version of the Oglaf Dimorphism comic that isn't too nsfw. Missing the punchline, but whatever, you win some you lose some.
I didn't know you could have non-female Dryads. The Ent is not really a male version, they have different backstories entirely. It'd be like comparing a Mermaid to a Kraken.


Also the Trex one reminds me of this:

81Vd1-lImgS.jpg


She's basically a Centauranossaurus.
Maybe. I'm not 100% convinced, but it would make sense. Anime does that a lot, more straight up furry/were guys and girls with just weird ears and sometimes a tail.



I know they aren't the same race.... kinda, I suppose both sorta human, but it illustrates my point.
Garron/Talbain isn't a furry, he's a werewolf, he has a normal human form too.

images.jpg
Felicia is just a Nekomata, she doesn't really ever transform out of those paws.

Also, he shows a lot more % of skin than she does.
 
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