Another thread about sexism in video games.

Cicada 5

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Well of course. But they often also censor their games for the western market. Look at Lost Ark, which is an upcoming MMO/diablo-like coming in like....Febuary? Oh fuck another Feburary game, fuck me sideways with a spoon I swear. Anyway, there are several youtube video on a wide variety of Koren games that get censored for western release, and I believe several Japanese games also have done that too.

If there is one thing the West is behind on, it's education, but also it is sex and how sex is viewed. America specifically holds onto some pretty upset Chrisitan values that other Chrisitan nations do not. Tits are perfectly fine to see on standard television all over Europe for example. I was actually watching an old British episode of Kitchen Nightmares that had boobies in it. Not to mention that you can swear almost as much as you want on British TV as well cause Gordon uses "fuck" more than Yahtzee.



I wouldn't even know where or how to begin finding Korean video game news, much less accurately translated. You could be right, but judging by the sheer consistancy of their boobie armor art style, i highly doubt it's much of an uproar.
Speaking as a non-American, it's always funny for me to see America accused of prudishness when it comes to sex. If people think the US is backwards when it comes to that stuff, they should try being in my country where the Eternals movie had intimate scenes between the gay and straight characters edited out for release, to say nothing of how it was banned in other countries. I'm just not seeing how America is this sex-negative place.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Speaking as a non-American, it's always funny for me to see America accused of prudishness when it comes to sex. If people think the US is backwards when it comes to that stuff, they should try being in my country where the Eternals movie had intimate scenes between the gay and straight characters edited out for release, to say nothing of how it was banned in other countries. I'm just not seeing how America is this sex-negative place.
Well, there's gradients. I would say the country I'm from is more sex positive than America, and I guess America is more sex positive than where you're from, but that doesn't mean there's still not a significant stigma on sex in both my country and America.
 

CriticalGaming

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Speaking as a non-American, it's always funny for me to see America accused of prudishness when it comes to sex. If people think the US is backwards when it comes to that stuff, they should try being in my country where the Eternals movie had intimate scenes between the gay and straight characters edited out for release, to say nothing of how it was banned in other countries. I'm just not seeing how America is this sex-negative place.
Well, there's gradients. I would say the country I'm from is more sex positive than America, and I guess America is more sex positive than where you're from, but that doesn't mean there's still not a significant stigma on sex in both my country and America.
Yeah there is totally gradients. There are places where women aren't allowed to even show an ankle.

America is caught in a weird spot where everyone wants sex while simultaniously denying that sex exists. It's not as regressive as some but it's enough to be irritating.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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No, most other Greeks hated Sparta at the time too.
Yeah, it took the brutal murderous eugenics slavers and made them the freedom loving good guys and had them fight against the ravenous inhuman hordes of the perverted and debased Persians.

For somebody who gets mad when people slightly mischaracterize anime, you're taking this pretty lightly
Just to point this out but you realise much of what you're saying is somewhat addressed in 300 Rise of an Empire right? The sequel film where the ending is basically "The Spartans decided to stop being asshole isolationists and help us in revenge for what happened to the 300 and try this whole working together and democracy thing."
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Speaking as a non-American, it's always funny for me to see America accused of prudishness when it comes to sex. If people think the US is backwards when it comes to that stuff, they should try being in my country where the Eternals movie had intimate scenes between the gay and straight characters edited out for release, to say nothing of how it was banned in other countries. I'm just not seeing how America is this sex-negative place.
That's the funny thing. America is prudish still in a number of regards.
We're talking a country that made its own version of the UK show skins and toned down the sex and nudity.
Yes the US may give us shows like Game of Thrones and other shows but it's really only paid services like HBO etc who dare show nudity or more recently Prime Video shows.
 

Cicada 5

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That's the funny thing. America is prudish still in a number of regards.
We're talking a country that made its own version of the UK show skins and toned down the sex and nudity.
Yes the US may give us shows like Game of Thrones and other shows but it's really only paid services like HBO etc who dare show nudity or more recently Prime Video shows.
Maybe this is just me, but I don't think we should judge how accepting a country is towards sex based on how much boobs and ass we see on tv. Especially when porn is pretty easy to find elsewhere.
 

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Maybe this is just me, but I don't think we should judge how accepting a country is towards sex based on how much boobs and ass we see on tv. Especially when porn is pretty easy to find elsewhere.
That's the problem, people like that don't think that far, or only strive for the most shallow thing.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Maybe this is just me, but I don't think we should judge how accepting a country is towards sex based on how much boobs and ass we see on tv. Especially when porn is pretty easy to find elsewhere.
That's kind of the weird thing it's a duality of a country where.
I'm not saying the UK is some sex positive bastion (I've met Europeans from some countries and they really show what sex positivity looks like). But the US is very much lie "Well we'll fine all that naughty smutty stuff behind this clearly marked door and pretend it doesn't exist most of the time". It's very much a division between "Ok this is porn and this is what is fine on TV and we just don't actually show much if anything here" There's little "Ok this is a show with sex in it" content really in the USA on any tv channel that is available and not a premium cable channel.

To contrast with the UK there's been women who have posed for topless photos for publications and that didn't harm their career at all and they're fine in all kinds of lines of work from presenters to women's show panellists and all kind or just regular fashion modelling. In the USA topless modelling basically blacklists people from fashion modelling and is seen as a black mark on people. It was considered or seen somewhat controversial that Game of Thrones had at least one if not more people who were or still are porn stars as part of the cast. In the US it's like some-one is permanently tainted the moment they show too much unless you're like a playboy guest model.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I dunno how "prudish" the US is when our porn doesn't need mosaic filters but more people get uncomfy with softcore ecchi of kids.

Interesting how the mental calculus shakes out on that, but then again I live in Montana, a god-fearing rural conservative state where the strip clubs can go full nude.

And of course the most sex and horny is on paid channels: the vast majority of *everything* is on paid channels. Hell, the vast majority of these sexy anime are released on, guess what: paid channels. Especially if they're even remotely uncensored. Japanese broadcasting is not immune to Standard And Practices and it's weird that weebs assume it's some weird wild west
 

Brokencontroller

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I dunno how "prudish" the US is when our porn doesn't need mosaic filters but more people get uncomfy with softcore ecchi of kids.

Interesting how the mental calculus shakes out on that, but then again I live in Montana, a god-fearing rural conservative state where the strip clubs can go full nude.

And of course the most sex and horny is on paid channels: the vast majority of *everything* is on paid channels. Hell, the vast majority of these sexy anime are released on, guess what: paid channels. Especially if they're even remotely uncensored. Japanese broadcasting is not immune to Standard And Practices and it's weird that weebs assume it's some weird wild west
I would argue that hentai faces more restrictions because it is cartoons and can possibly be grabbed off the shelves by kids who dont know any better? Or if not grabbed off a shelf, accidently turned to whatever channel would show that shit and not realize until sex is happening. Either way i think the cartoon stuff requires more care.

Though i dont remember seeing anyone saying that Japan is somehow more lax about sex. Maybe i missed it.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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I would argue that hentai faces more restrictions because it is cartoons and can possibly be grabbed off the shelves by kids who dont know any better? Or if not grabbed off a shelf, accidently turned to whatever channel would show that shit and not realize until sex is happening. Either way i think the cartoon stuff requires more care.

Though i dont remember seeing anyone saying that Japan is somehow more lax about sex. Maybe i missed it.
If the US is more prudish than Japan, then Japan is less prudish than the US, at least so the argument goes. Transitive property and all. If the argument is "it doesn't count because it's on a paid station", that's true in Japan too.

And I'm not just talking about cartoons. Manga I read a while ago goes into the porn industry from a dude's perspective. The heavy mosaic let's them fake penetrative intercourse because there's no way to tell depending on shot composition.

For that matter, Right Stuf, the online shop I get most my manga from, has completely uncensored manga that's not available uncensored in Japan. Only real restriction is clicking the "are you 18+" box in the settings.
 
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Brokencontroller

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If the US is more prudish than Japan, then Japan is less prudish than the US, at least so the argument goes. Transitive property and all. If the argument is "it doesn't count because it's on a paid station", that's true in Japan too.

And I'm not just talking about cartoons. Manga I read a while ago goes into the porn industry from a dude's perspective. The heavy mosaic let's them fake penetrative intercourse because there's no way to tell depending on shot composition.

For that matter, Right Stuf, the online shop I get most my manga from, has completely uncensored manga that's not available uncensored in Japan. Only real restriction is clicking the "are you 18+" box in the settings.
Also why are we talking about porn when that isnt relevant to video games? Not directly asking you per se but like...wtf does hentai have to do with anything?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Also why are we talking about porn when that isnt relevant to video games? Not directly asking you per se but like...wtf does hentai have to do with anything?
Same reason we had a discussion about 300 and the blatant politics thereof. Bad whataboutism, mostly
 
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Hades

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It's kinda like an overflowing river spilling into a dammed lake and then that making the whole dam come down when folks started saying the game should be game of the year over last of us 2, since all those agrieved people and their consorts who in their minds had deemed the game and those who enjoyed it as sinful were incensed by the proposition of it being better than last of us 2.
Other way around actually. It were the critics of TLOU2 which latched on to Ghost of Tsushima as the true game for true gamers, as the big alternative to woke trash, while being hilariously unaware that Ghost had in fact far more woke themes than TLOU2 ever did.

Its the alt right which latched on to Ghost because they needed a game to counter TLOU2 which was the big culture war property at the time. The right has this weird habit. Whenever a product gets too woke for them they rally around another movie or game that comes out at around the same game and loudly shout ''THIS here is the TRUE nerd media for TRUE nerds and you blasted sjw's will not see your woke trash be better than it!''

What this product competing with the woke product actually is turns out to not be very important. After all its just a tool to them. Just an artificial battle in their culture war. Just something to rally behind for tactical considerations. I actually doubt most of these champions have as much affection for ''their'' products as they claim. . Those who claim that Gost is the ''TRUE game for TRUE gamers which UNLIKE TLOU2 leaves POLITICS at the DOOR to focus on FUN!!!!'' clearly never played the game or stopped playing really early. Because how else could they miss the themes that the game really isn't subtle about and which are themes any self respecting member of the alt right should have condemned.
 

Hades

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Oh please, the 'kiss trailer' brought the usual homophobes out in force like it always does.
That certainly helped to reveal how the critics of that game weren't really acting in good faith. I don't have a lot of respect for TLOU2 but like the new Star Wars movies its biggest ''sins'' seem to be to take a stance(or being perceived to take a stance) in the culture war that the alt right doesn't agree with.

Which is usually nonsense. TLOU2 is a little woke but only a little. Its core message is the utterly conventional ''Revenge is bad m'kay'' rather than any woke message or impression of girl power. And despite supposedly being oh so political the new Star Wars movies don't say anything at all which hinders their ability to actually be political. This unlike the previous trilogies which had very strong political messaging.

And similarly the products they rally behind as the alternative to these ''woke'' media then turns out to not nearly be as anti woke as they'd like.

Have you forgotten that the Netflix She-Ra attracted a lot of hate due to "de-feminizing" Adora? Making her look like a boy, and whatnot? And then the Teela controversy with Revelations?
I always found that really weird. Clearly Adora was designed to just look younger rather than more like a boy. I know there was a running joke about the Quartering being angry he couldn't masturbate as much because the character designs were less attractive.
 

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Its the alt right which latched on to Ghost because they needed a game to counter TLOU2 which was the big culture war property at the time. The right has this weird habit. Whenever a product gets too woke for them they rally around another movie or game that comes out at around the same game and loudly shout ''THIS here is the TRUE nerd media for TRUE nerds and you blasted sjw's will not see your woke trash be better than it!''

What this product competing with the woke product actually is turns out to not be very important. After all its just a tool to them. Just an artificial battle in their culture war. Just something to rally behind for tactical considerations. I actually doubt most of these champions have as much affection for ''their'' products as they claim. . Those who claim that Gost is the ''TRUE game for TRUE gamers which UNLIKE TLOU2 leaves POLITICS at the DOOR to focus on FUN!!!!'' clearly never played the game or stopped playing really early. Because how else could they miss the themes that the game really isn't subtle about and which are themes any self respecting member of the alt right should have condemned.
Exactly why I have 0 respect for those assholes, nor rarely give them the time of day. They're a colossal cavalcade of fucking morons.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Other way around actually. It were the critics of TLOU2 which latched on to Ghost of Tsushima as the true game for true gamers, as the big alternative to woke trash, while being hilariously unaware that Ghost had in fact far more woke themes than TLOU2 ever did.

Its the alt right which latched on to Ghost because they needed a game to counter TLOU2 which was the big culture war property at the time. The right has this weird habit. Whenever a product gets too woke for them they rally around another movie or game that comes out at around the same game and loudly shout ''THIS here is the TRUE nerd media for TRUE nerds and you blasted sjw's will not see your woke trash be better than it!''

What this product competing with the woke product actually is turns out to not be very important. After all its just a tool to them. Just an artificial battle in their culture war. Just something to rally behind for tactical considerations. I actually doubt most of these champions have as much affection for ''their'' products as they claim. . Those who claim that Gost is the ''TRUE game for TRUE gamers which UNLIKE TLOU2 leaves POLITICS at the DOOR to focus on FUN!!!!'' clearly never played the game or stopped playing really early. Because how else could they miss the themes that the game really isn't subtle about and which are themes any self respecting member of the alt right should have condemned.
*points to and taps on the articles I posted on the past page showing outlets trying to find any reason to go after the game*

Yeh no. People were disappointed with TLOU2, some others tried Ghost of Tsushima and said it was good. Word spread as outlets tried come up with reason to claim the game was bad.

There wasn't some secret alt-right plan to make this their fight back game. People just liked the game.

The whole idea that there wasn't some stupid fight with TLOU2 fans going on is rather undermined because Cliff fucking Blezinski felt the need to tweet this today


The context? Some TLOU2 fans decided to start shit by going after Doom Eternal now in 2022. Yes years later some TLOU2 stans are still going after other games to try and claim their game is better to I dunno try to convince people to buy it even now. It's nuts. Ever like 2 weeks to 1 month some nutter breaks through into the twitter discourse round gaming with some stupid take about how TLOU2 is the best game ever and was robbed or something.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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That certainly helped to reveal how the critics of that game weren't really acting in good faith. I don't have a lot of respect for TLOU2 but like the new Star Wars movies its biggest ''sins'' seem to be to take a stance(or being perceived to take a stance) in the culture war that the alt right doesn't agree with.

Which is usually nonsense. TLOU2 is a little woke but only a little. Its core message is the utterly conventional ''Revenge is bad m'kay'' rather than any woke message or impression of girl power. And despite supposedly being oh so political the new Star Wars movies don't say anything at all which hinders their ability to actually be political. This unlike the previous trilogies which had very strong political messaging.

And similarly the products they rally behind as the alternative to these ''woke'' media then turns out to not nearly be as anti woke as they'd like.
Kind of the core of wokness right there though. Hollow tearing down of what came before with vague trappings to make it seem more progressive.
TLOU2:
Made under rather extreme crunch
That due to it and various studio incompetence nearly killed some of the workers at the studio (no really)
Made by a dude
Who many seem to feel pushed Amy Henning out of the company to make his story version
That features a character who totally co-incidentally looks like the main game director.
Said character has sex with the muscular woman.
Said muscular woman character beats the shit out of the previous games male lead
Said game directors previous game featured a strong black woman who beats the crap out of the two male leads at once.
May or may not have been a fetish thing inserted right there for people to play through in a game like how Tarantino has a foot fetish which turns up often in his films.

I always found that really weird. Clearly Adora was designed to just look younger rather than more like a boy. I know there was a running joke about the Quartering being angry he couldn't masturbate as much because the character designs were less attractive.
Clearly didn't stop some of the male feminist ally types and shippers masturbating to her based on the rule 34 art that emerged.........
 

Hades

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*points to and taps on the articles I posted on the past page showing outlets trying to find any reason to go after the game*
outlets which consistently scored the game highly you mean?

Yeh no. People were disappointed with TLOU2, some others tried Ghost of Tsushima and said it was good. Word spread as outlets tried come up with reason to claim the game was bad.
The metacritic stands at a pretty respectable 83 so obviously not all that many must have claimed the game was bad.

There wasn't some secret alt-right plan to make this their fight back game. People just liked the game.
And rightfully so. But if people claim to like it for reasons that don't exist then that does indicate something. If they think its the true game for true gamers which left politics at the door and which is the antithesis of all things woke then they can't have liked the game enough to play it for very long.

Kind of the core of wokness right there though. Hollow tearing down of what came before with vague trappings to make it seem more progressive.
TLOU2:
Made under rather extreme crunch
That due to it and various studio incompetence nearly killed some of the workers at the studio (no really)
Made by a dude
Who many seem to feel pushed Amy Henning out of the company to make his story version
That features a character who totally co-incidentally looks like the main game director.
Said character has sex with the muscular woman.
Said muscular woman character beats the shit out of the previous games male lead
Said game directors previous game featured a strong black woman who beats the crap out of the two male leads at once.
May or may not have been a fetish thing inserted right there for people to play through in a game like how Tarantino has a foot fetish which turns up often in his films.
I doubt most woke people would agree with that definition or that things like crunch are particularly woke. In fact most of the list seems just a list of everything you don't like and it therefore being woke.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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outlets which consistently scored the game highly you mean?
Some of the sites I linked don't even give scores so no they really didn't lol.


The metacritic stands at a pretty respectable 83 so obviously not all that many must have claimed the game was bad.
Metacritic only scores and weights a score if a score of some kind is given.

And rightfully so. But if people claim to like it for reasons that don't exist then that does indicate something. If they think its the true game for true gamers which left politics at the door and which is the antithesis of all things woke then they can't have liked the game enough to play it for very long.
And what prey tell were the non existent reasons people claimed to like it?


I doubt most woke people would agree with that definition or that things like crunch are particularly woke. In fact most of the list seems just a list of everything you don't like and it therefore being woke.
That's the point. Woke is hollow.
I listed all that stuff and to many people that didn't matter because Abby has muscle so that's good and Ellie is a lesbian so that's good and diversity and a pregnant woman on the front lines proving she's not incapable of doing stuff or less able just because she's pregnant.
The game was hugely celebrated by some as some shot against those unwoke idiot Gamers™

Wokeness is inherently hollow because all that stuff I listed, didn't matter at all to said people.