Interestingly enough, when someone has no argument at all to substantiate their opinion, they usually just start screaming louder.
Funny Events of the "Woke" world
- Thread starter CriticalGaming
- Start date
Has Rowling ever given the impression that she's willing to find some common ground (not set solely on her terms) or listen to what people from the trans community have to say? Because she's been given the benefit of the doubt for a long time without ever budging an inch from her rhetoric. And then when she really got called out on it she just dug in deeper, even writing a book that conveniently features a man dressing up as a woman to lure and kill other women (a classic). Which I'm sure was totally not out of spite or anything.
Just calling this out is already seen by her as being sceamed down. She has made her case very clearly, and that this is simply how she feels on the matter. You can't blame others that they're not winning hearts and minds when they call a spade a spade. Especially after they previously really refrained from doing so due to their love of her work, and hoping this was all just some misunderstanding.
I don't really like this mentality of 'Well, we shouldn't really call out shitty behaviour, otherwise the shitty people will get even shittier'.
This "debate" is between, on one side:
The entire print and television UK media (including supposedly neutral outlets like the BBC)
Numerous anti-trans lobby groups and "concerned parent" organizations
The current government
The courts
The far right and "culture warriors"
Religious organizations
The leadership of the independent body that is supposed to monitor human rights
A bunch of celebrities who decided to involve themselves
And on the other:
Young trans people on twitter
Right wing provocateurs pretending to be young trans people on twitter
A silent majority of queer people
A majority of academics and doctors specializing in this area (who are being deliberately excluded from the debate by the same people calling for more medical oversight)
Some LGBT charities
So yeah, I don't really care about winning hearts and minds. I don't see why anyone should. I don't see anyone talking about how the other side isn't winning hearts and minds when they post lists of trans social media personalities they think should be lynched or claim that trans women are all rapists because they symbolically rape women by appropriating female bodies, so why the hell should I or anyone care about whether we're winning hearts and minds? It's not like this "debate" is actually a real conversation.
Noone at this point is hating on JK Rowling because they think it's going to convince anyone. They're hating on JK Rowling because we need to keep reminding each other that this world is incredibly fucked up, that this isn't how it's supposed to be and one day it won't be like this any more.
In the meantime, it's not like most of the "hearts and minds" out there have ever actually read a single thing a trans person has actually said about JK Rowling, who by the way is a TERF. You don't get to rant about "rapid onset gender dysphoria" and "trans-identified individuals" and then not have anyone realise you're a TERF.
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You... have to win hearts and mind before giving people rights? Other than stating that this is completely backwards, it not even based on any historical rights movement
As to 'authoritatian and intimidatory', they think that's happening to Christmas. They're going to do it if they have evidence or not. You just have to get used to being called authoritative and intimidating. Nothing you or I do will change
I'm pretty sure that slavery was abolished after the abolition movement gained substantial traction; that the civil rights movement came after years of campaigning and shifts in public perception; and likewise with the decriminalisation of homosexuality. Not everyone needs to be won over by any means, but there has to be a significant number to drive the matter into contention.
Although the shift in public opinion is already well in progress and acceptance of trans rights, particularly amongst the young, is already substantial: we're at this stage because it's already reached certain thresholds.
And yet aggression against trans people is at an all time high, since the people who are anti-trans only want to push back more viciously because they feel their worldview is getting threatened - This alone is enough. It's this shift in public opinion that right-wing media is spinning into ammunition to depict the left as authoritarian and intimidating. They'll spin this shit regardless. They don't get outraged at the left for being loud or screaming, they get outraged at the left for calling for equality.
The Critical Race Theory hysteria is a result of the Black Lives Matter movement and the right feeling extremely threatened by it. Not threatened by the idea of a supermarket getting burned down, but by the idea of public opinion shifting against them.
You can't base the process of change on the sensibilities of those that want to keep things the same.
Sure. As long as those without rights are happy to accept it, there's little struggle. It's with the challenge to the status quo that the backlash and conflict comes.
Yes, the usual suspects on the right will rage and scream, but they're not the people who need to have, or are generally capable of having, their minds changed. Nevertheless, they're not a bunch of screaming irrelevants pumping out all that just for their own amusement: it can also get traction more widely. That's why the Republican Party is even slightly electable.
Then it depends on which people you consider can still change their mind. Seeing as how much Rowling has been vehemently echoing TERF rhetoric I don't consider her someone that will change her mind except for the worse. I consider her someone who's behaviour needs to be called out so that others who can still change their minds, or who haven't made up their minds yet, can for the better.
Or maybe we don't allow the system to be so easily exploited?
How do you prove they're just cis men though because them saying they're trans makes them it by current standards.......
Why is this type of rape worse than others?
Like, if one women is raping another in prison, why are we making rules to change that?
Masks off time, I guess
Those lousy feminists, not wanting people to die in war. How am I supposed to feel superior to the victims then?!
I doubt the feminist ideology is the issue - it's just a rationalisation. I think that she's a traumatised domestic violence survivor so fixated on the threat to women posed by men that she can't see through it to problems faced by trans people. Hence the male villain who dresses up in women's clothing: he's not a transwoman, he's a cis man who pretends to be a woman in order to prey on his victims.
Thus I don't think she's coming from a place of ill-will, she's generally a woman with a great deal of compassion who otherwise supports a lot of admirable causes, who advocates compassion for transpeople, with resistance to trans rights at the lower end of the scale. So all in all, I'm inclined to cut her some slack.
It's not the West or the Ukrainians threatening to wage war, it's the Russians, but liberal, progressive, socialist, and communist talking heads are all blaming the US despite US evidence that Russia is the one amassing troops in Crimea which it invaded already, Belarus, and on the Russian-Ukraine border in Satellite photos.
But most of the idiots who are blindly anti-western are pointing fingers at the US. Morons. Point it at the people doing the bad shit, not the people trying to stop it.
Cold Pink are useful idiots for Putin at a bare minimum.
The time when a bunch of rich peoplw decided that the release of slaves needs compensation from the public coffers? The same rich guys who were in control of the government? Using other people's taxes? And, the most egregious part, paying the rich people, because THOSE were the people damaged by getting rid of slavery? And then they clap themselves on the back noting what an SJW they are while pocketing millions (in today's money)? They bribed themselves into behaving appropriately while leaving the victims in squalor.
Look, if it wasn't for the civil war or what happened in Brazil or the Middle East, I'd be point out this a the most horrible treatment of slaves. It's the brokenness of Property Rights that happens all the time. I.e. Property Rights only start when the rich say they do
Sure, bribes can overcome any social plight so it doesnt offend cetain leaders. I don't think it's saying what you think it's saying.
Edit: You're right. There will be further changes as society progresses. I dont know if that's a good excuse to not do it now other than to not offend other people. Because that's the ONLY reason we aren't doing it
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What I see from Putin is a lot of trying to get someone else to make the first move. He's using your rhetoric against you to get the US to attack first like they normally do. He's also trying to get more NATO units at the border so he can develop an attack strategy and seeing how bloodthirsty everyone. If the general populace of the West is bloodthirsty, he can use that in his propoganda campaign
But this reminds me of Linsey Graham on Thursday at the drone senate committee
Lindsey: We attacked Afghanistan over planes flying into tbe twin towers. We can take any action including killing civilians
Also Linsey: We need to bomb them more until the Afganis stop attacking us.
He can't comprehend that the drone bombing will CAUSE more attacks, not lessen them. 911 is proof of that being true.
So, you might think others are following Putins plan. I see what you doing as following Putins plan. All countries know how Americas invade countries over nothing. He's using that knowledge against the US
And that's exactly how TERFs see transwomen, and how transwomen have been viewed and depicted in popular media for the longest time; as weirdo men who dress up as women so they can take advantage of other women. Even if this didn't coincidentally occur right after the trans community had had enough and spoken out about her, this trope would've still been harmful. But considering the timing... yeah, fuck off Rowling.
I'm sorry, but at this point I really don't give a shit about her history with domestic abuse. Not when she's using her fame and influence to cause trauma for a lot of other people.
Compassion for transpeople? Really?! She considers medical transition a form of conversion therapy for young gay people dude. If she had compassion she'd listen to what trans people have to say, not talk down to them like she knows better then they do. She very much does come from a place of spite and ill-will when it comes to the trans community. She deserves no fucking slack whatsoever.
Not in this context it doesn't. Rowling's past as a victim of abuse is tragic, but its not a get out of being an asshole free card from the Chance deck of life.
Yeah, I'm not going to excuse bigotry because someone had a tragic past. Especially when that someone is extremely rich and famous and uses their platform and fame to spread even more bigotry.
If she's suffering due to her past with domestic abuse she should get some professional help, not spur on a hate campaign against an already marginalized and stigmatized group of people. She can't play the fool anymore, like she didn't realize she was hurting people with what she's saying. People told her what she's saying is harmful toward the trans community, she simply doesn't give a shit. And I'm supposed to wave that off with 'yeah, but she's a victim of domestic abuse so...'? How about no.