Ieskai

[thestor]

So, I just checked out Zero Punctuation and he reviews and Isekai-Pokemon game and guess what I just re-watched literally hours ago?


Apart from shouting out to Terrible Writing advice, I channel I quite like, I am curious, what makes an Isekai game? As Yatzee pointed out, "A Yankee in King Arthur's Court" could be considered Isekai if you solely go by "modern person gets transported to a fantasy world". But are there other elements that are essential to the genre? Does the protagonist have to be an every-man in our world? Dies he have to be competent if not over-powered in the fantasy world? Is that harem thing a part of it, or just something that embarrassingly keeps popping-up in the genre, like the love-story in Hollywood movies?

 

[BrawlMan]

But are there other elements that are essential to the genre? Does the protagonist have to be an every-man in our world? Does he have to be competent if not over-powered in the fantasy world? Is that harem thing a part of it, or just something that embarrassingly keeps popping-up in the genre, like the love-story in Hollywood movies?

In order:

1. No.
2. No, but competence does help. But not "genius" or pulling stuff out of their ass.
3. Harem is part of it, but that only started with El Hazard back in the 90s and early 2000s. Even then, with most version of El Hazard, it was not a harem and mainly a love triangle. Other girls like him, but weren't attracted to the main character. El Hazard is the prototype isekai to what comes later in the 2010s and 2020s. The second TV series ironically, suffered from this and became a third rate Tenchi clone. The show got hate for what the genre eventually became and what most people (young males) love about it now.

Besides, you want good ieskai? Watch Digimon Adventure, Digimon Tamers, Digimon Frontier, Monster Rancher, and El Hazard. Now and Then, Here and There is a complete deconstruction, so watch with warning. You will be depressed.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I have no idea what you're talking about, and won't be investigating further, but you have my sincere thanks for reminding me that Terrible Writing Advice exists.

 

[Gordon_4]

In order:

1. No.
2. No, but competence does help. But not "genius" or pulling stuff out of their ass.
3. Harem is part of it, but that only started with El Hazard back in the 90s and early 2000s. Even then, with most version of El Hazard, it was not a harem and mainly a love triangle. Other girls like him, but weren't attracted to the main character. El Hazard is the prototype isekai to what comes later in the 2010s and 2020s. The second TV series ironically, suffered from this and became a third rate Tenchi clone. The show got hate for what the genre eventually became and what most people (young males) love about it now.

Besides, you want good ieskai? Watch Digimon Adventure, Digimon Tamers, Digimon Frontier, Monster Rancher, and El Hazard. Now and Then, Here and There is a complete deconstruction, so watch with warning. You will be depressed.

Is Digimon really Isekai though? I mean sure the first season of Adventure they were stuck, but eventually they were able to freely travel between the two and it seems to run with their many hours in the digital world only being worth minutes or hours outside. And my recollection of Tamers was that Digimon had come to our world and there was no travel to the Digital World, but rather the connection between the two was threatening both.

Like there's definitely some shared DNA but I wouldn't call them full blown Isekai.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

An Isekai is basically just someone from one world ends up in another. This can be someone from what we consider our world ending up in an alternate world or someone from an alternate world ending up in ours.

Mostly the sub-genre it the former type. There's nothing else required for it to be an isekai, a lot have the isekai'd character getting special powers but it's not required (I'm pretty sure the MC from Konosuba has zero powers or special abilities). The harem thing isn't required, very few have an actual harem (As in, multiple romantic partners consensually "sharing" them), the only one I've read that had one was 'How a Realistic Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom' though you're probably thinking of "harem" as in a story where a protagonist has a lot of potential suitors in which case the answer is also no.

 

[BrawlMan]

Digimon really Isekai though

Yes. They still go to another world in Adventure. Yes, the kids and their Digimon go to the real world later in the series for the eight child. After that, they go back to the digital world, but they can't go back to the real world until the job is done. And when the job is done, it turns out the trip back to Earth is a one way trip and they can't take their Digimon with them. The portal closed permanently. That was the point of all the heartbreaking and heartwarming good byes. The original show was not supposed to have a sequel set in the same continuity. It's why 02 retcons the shit out of everything and has an asspull on why the Digimon and the Digidestins can go through willy nilly. I am not even gonna get in to Digimon Tri. Fuck that.

Tamers is a bit more iffy, but they still go to the digital world in then the later half of the series. They're not there too long, but they were there for quite a while. The reason why I didn't put 02 on the list, is because they can travel freely. Digimon Frontier, tries to go back to the roots of Adventure. Except that the kids can turn into Digimon. And guess what? They go to the digital world and are stuck there for pretty much nearly the entire show. So hell yeah, I'm making these count! Because they do.

 

[Satinavian]

Does the protagonist have to be an every-man in our world?

No. There are many Isekais with especcially talented people having to apply their abilities in new ways and situations and Isekais about people that don't really fit in our world/society but flourish in the other.

But an Isekai protagonist should be our window through which we explore this other world. And for that it helps to be a normal, relatable person which is why those are so common.

Dies he have to be competent if not over-powered in the fantasy world?

No, but it is extremely common. Not overpowered isekai protagonists are far from rare while not a majority. Utterly incompetent ones are rare indeed and usually only pop up in comedy isekais.

Is that harem thing a part of it, or just something that embarrassingly keeps popping-up in the genre, like the love-story in Hollywood movies?

Harem is not part of it at all. Many of the most popular isekais like 12 kingdoms or Spirited Away don't have any. Even Escaflowne has only a love triangle.

The harems are just some trend.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Additional stuff. While a lot of isekai can become insufferable with overpowered and overcompetent MCs, some of them can make it work. Specifically, 'Overlord' and 'That Time I Got Reincarnated As a Slime' are the ones I think manage to pull that off because the MC of both stories takes on a kind of parental role for a lot of the other characters, trying to protect them or teach them.

The two isekai I liked the most were 'Ascendance of a Bookworm' Part 1 & 2, it starts to fall into the same pitfalls of other isekai in Part 3. And, 'The Sorcerer King of Destruction and the Golem of the Barbarian Queen' (Yes yes, I know) because despite the MCs having powers, it's balanced by them not being hyper competent, which I think is the real issue.

One isekai I hated was 'Accomplishments of the Duke's Daughter' because despite the story not involving magic or anything, the story reads like mary-sue fanfiction with how everything lines up perfectly for the MC all the time or how so many people fall over themselves for her or how her posse gets hostile with people that wronged her in the past. Add to that that it does nothing with the premise it set out with and its kind of the perfect example of what not to do with your main character.

For so-so ones, I loved 'So I'm a Spider, So What?" for the first three books but after that it derails into extreme power creep and the MC stagnating in terms of character growth and not changing to suit the direction the series took. I also really enjoyed 'How a Realistic Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom' because of the premise of someone being summoned as a hero to a fantasy world but they fix things through government reform and infrastructure changes, but the challenges they face stop scaling and it starts being too easy for them to accomplish their goals.

So yeah, the genre is kind of a mixed bag at best.

 

[Drathnoxis]

The leading example of the genre:

 

[SilentPony]

Isekai in general disturb me because they're so popular, so prevalent in both Japanese anime, and animes brought over to the West, and the elements of them are so creepy.
A harem?! Seriously?! Who the fuck wants a harem? Who wants to have half a dozen sex slaves, or worse, half a dozen women who genuinely love you and feel rivalry and jealously for each other? Have you ever been in a love triangle or had a SO with an ex they're still close to? It doesn't feel great. The emotional tole it takes is serious.
I get that its a fantasy, but you can judge a lot about someone by what they fantasies about. I'm fine with dudes wanting to be heroes fighting monsters. Im fine with dudes wanting to be rich. Hell, I'll even give a pass to wanting to be famous, even though its not for me. But a harem? Sex slaves? One of them inevitably being a sibling of some kind, adopted or otherwise? Why is that so popular and why is it considered good?

 

[Worgen]

Isekai in general disturb me because they're so popular, so prevalent in both Japanese anime, and animes brought over to the West, and the elements of them are so creepy.
A harem?! Seriously?! Who the fuck wants a harem? Who wants to have half a dozen sex slaves, or worse, half a dozen women who genuinely love you and feel rivalry and jealously for each other? Have you ever been in a love triangle or had a SO with an ex they're still close to? It doesn't feel great. The emotional tole it takes is serious.
I get that its a fantasy, but you can judge a lot about someone by what they fantasies about. I'm fine with dudes wanting to be heroes fighting monsters. Im fine with dudes wanting to be rich. Hell, I'll even give a pass to wanting to be famous, even though its not for me. But a harem? Sex slaves? One of them inevitably being a sibling of some kind, adopted or otherwise? Why is that so popular and why is it considered good?

Throughout history, plenty of people have wanted the so called "harem." But, I think the harem thing is mostly about a choice and to just have more cute girls. Not many series do it the other way, the only one that comes to mind was some series about a girl who stumbles on a house with all the animals from the zodiac living in it but they are all cute boys.

 

[Worgen]

Harem is not part of it at all. Many of the most popular isekais like 12 kingdoms or Spirited Away don't have any. Even Escaflowne has only a love triangle.

The harems are just some trend.

Don't forget Inuyasha.

 

[BrawlMan]

Don't forget Inuyasha.

The worst love triangle in anime history.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Throughout history, plenty of people have wanted the so called "harem." But, I think the harem thing is mostly about a choice and to just have more cute girls. Not many series do it the other way, the only one that comes to mind was some series about a girl who stumbles on a house with all the animals from the zodiac living in it but they are all cute boys.

Ranma's harem had a fair number of guys in it as well as girls. Also Akane had a bit of a harem herself, if I recall correctly.

The worst love triangle in anime history.

So bad I don't even remember it. Who was the third person again?

 

[BrawlMan]

Ranma's harem had a fair number of guys in it as well as girls. Also Akane had a bit of a harem herself, if I recall correctly.

So bad I don't even remember it. Who was the third person again?

FFM: Kagome, Kikyo, and Inuyasha. Kikyo became infatuated Inuyasha again after learning that Naraku was the one that killed her. She hated and was jealous of Kagome. To the point where she didn't care if Kagome or her friends died, but wanted Inuyasha to live, despite the fact that Kagome is her reincarnation. Kikyo is also a fucking idiot. You tell Naraku you know his true weakness, what can kill him, and had him right by the balls, but decide to gloat in his face about it, when he is very vulnerable, and decide not to end him right then and there? Only threatening to come back later? A lot of fucking good that did! Mother-fucker got stronger, because of your inaction and pride! Fuck you writers and fuck you, Kikyo! The series should have ended right there. I immediately quit watching ever since, and never looked back.

MMF: Inuyasha, Koga, and Kagome. Turns out later that Koga already has a fiance, and eventually gets with her, but before the series finished. It's outright implied/stated that Koga "loved" more so out of lust than anything. So that was a waste of time, but I was never surprised in the slightest.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Throughout history, plenty of people have wanted the so called "harem." But, I think the harem thing is mostly about a choice and to just have more cute girls. Not many series do it the other way, the only one that comes to mind was some series about a girl who stumbles on a house with all the animals from the zodiac living in it but they are all cute boys.

Fruit Basket. And there's actually far more than that, they just don't typically get as much attention.

An example.

Meiji Tokyo Renka (Learned of this because of its fantastic opening song)

(EDIT: Can't post an image. Holy fucking shit. Why do images have to break everything?!)

WARNING!
Specter is now going into rambling mode, read at your own risk.

This kinda thing is used just as much for stuff marketed at women as it is men. Most people on this forum are men (Perhaps all of us at this point), and most of us aren't interested in romance, because of those factors most of us will not know about these kinds of stories, but they exist, there is a market for them.

As Worgen said, it's really just about having lots of characters. It's much less about any kind of fantasy of having a lot of girls interested in you, even in the ones where there IS some kind of "competition" it's more a way to generate some kind of conflict as there's an obvious couple that's going to end up together. It's annoying, but that's the way it is. I much prefer romance anime/manga that bite the bullet and move past the courtship phase like 'My Monster Secret', which had that particular plot point resolved halfway through the series, but in that case the comedy and characters were strong enough that it could do that. A lot of stories lean on the courtship phase as a crutch because there's not much else going on.

 

[Worgen]

A lot of stories lean on the courtship phase as a crutch because there's not much else going on.

Its also easier to write and gives some nice drama too, especially with other characters involved. Its hard to keep an established couple interesting. Really the best... anything, I've seen that has done it was 'Rascal Does not Dream of Bunny Girl Sempai.' Their relationship is established early on and they are excellent at communicating with each other and acting like normal people rather then wacky characters looking for extra drama.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Its also easier to write and gives some nice drama too, especially with other characters involved. Its hard to keep an established couple interesting. Really the best... anything, I've seen that has done it was 'Rascal Does not Dream of Bunny Girl Sempai.' Their relationship is established early on and they are excellent at communicating with each other and acting like normal people rather then wacky characters looking for extra drama.

There's also a lot of interesting things you can explore with the life of a couple as well but it seems like more people are testing the waters of that now. An example is a VN that came out around a year ago called 'Making Lovers' that is specifically about life after two people start dating and fast tracks the courtship phase to get to that part.

 

[thestor]

Would anyone happen to know the old (OLD) video game Another World? Would that one qualify as Isekai, too? It just seems rather different from what is generally referred to with that term.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and won't be investigating further, but you have my sincere thanks for reminding me that Terrible Writing Advice exists.

My pleasure. Giving a shout-out to the channel was part of my motivation.

 

[Drathnoxis]

FFM: Kagome, Kikyo, and Inuyasha. Kikyo became infatuated Inuyasha again after learning that Naraku was the one that killed her. She hated and was jealous of Kagome. To the point where she didn't care if Kagome or her friends died, but wanted Inuyasha to live Despite the fact that Kagome is her reincarnation. Kikyo is also a fucking idiot. You tell Naraku you know his true weakness, what can kill him, and had right by the balls, but decide to gloat in face about it, when he is very vulnearable, and decide to end him right then and there? Only threatening to come back later? A lot of fucking good that did! ************ got stronger, because of your inaction and pride! Fuck you writers and fuck you, Kikyo! The series should have ended right there. I immmedately quit watching ever since, and never looked back.

MMF: Inuyasha, Koga, and Kagome. Turns out later that Koga already has a fiance, and eventually gets with her, but for the series finished. It's outright implied/stated that Koga "loved" more so out of lust than anything. So that was a waste of time, but I was never surprised in the slightest.

Hmm, I don't really remember any of that. I'm gonna have to rewatch Inuyasha sometime.