Funny Events of the "Woke" world

Silvanus

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Sure it is. We're talking about a purely cosmetic disability someone ultra privileged has had for a long time.
Hair loss in women is heavily stigmatised in a lot of places, as I'm sure you know. This kind of thing can dramatically affect self-image and mental wellbeing.

The slap is by far the more "superficial" of the two. Its not even a contest. He experienced a couple of minutes of a slight sting on the cheek, maybe, as opposed to years of a medical condition.
 

Generals

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Hair loss in women is heavily stigmatised in a lot of places, as I'm sure you know. This kind of thing can dramatically affect self-image and mental wellbeing.

The slap is by far the more "superficial" of the two. Its not even a contest. He experienced a couple of minutes of a slight sting on the cheek, maybe, as opposed to years of a medical condition.
And the joke was just a small fleeting sting everyone would have forgotten 5 minutes later. See, the problem is that you're trying to compare Alopecia to a slap. That's nonsensical as Chris Rock didn't give her Alopecia. He made one small joke about her haircut (and by extension her condition).
 
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Baffle

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I am fairly certain average Joe/Jane with alopecia wouldn't feel insulted by a stupid GI Jane joke in such a context.
Yes, bald men are famously okay with jokes about their unattractiveness. We don't get loads of articles about hot bald guys like Statham and Tucci to make bald men feel better. Just never see them.
 
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Breakdown

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I don't really think the insult/humiliation is on the same level, honestly.



Making fun of careers, personalities, bad movies etc is. Making fun of someone's disability is not.
I'm bald, it's really not a disability. Although maybe I should put that down the next time I apply for a job...
 

Agema

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And the joke was just a small fleeting sting everyone would have forgotten 5 minutes later. See, the problem is that you're trying to compare Alopecia to a slap. That's nonsensical as Chris Rock didn't give her Alopecia. He made one small joke about her haircut (and by extension her condition).
You can say that, but...

Postmenopausal women can tend to experience osteoporosis. The medications for osteoporosis can also cause hair loss, and many women feel so uncomfortable with the prospect of losing their hair that they take the chances with brittle bones instead. So, it's a big deal. Such is the effect of ingrained societal pressure to look good.

That said, no matter how insensitive the joke, Will Smith absolutely should not have got up and slapped him.
 

Casual Shinji

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"Harm" is the impact something has, right? A slight sting in the cheek is not a massive harm.

Someone having their disability mocked in front of a full room, and in front of TV cameras, is having a worse fucking time.
Yeah, but the 'man must prove himself a man through violence' is an equally harmful mindset. Now, can I be 100% sure that's what spurred Smith on? No. But than neither can I say with certainty that Chris Rock knew about Jada's disability.

Also, apparently Chris Rock was severely bullied and beat up as a kid, so that slap might not have just been a sting on the cheek for him. You just don't put your hands on someone in a threatening manner, especially when you're bigger than them. Speaking from experience it can be really unsetting to get physically assaulted out of nowhere, eventhough the act itself is "no more" than a slap to the face or a punch in the arm. Physical violence isn't just the physical, just as words aren't just words - they will leave an impact beyond the initial sting.

Both of them seem to have apologized for the incident, Smith certainly has to Rock, so in regards to the two of them this whole thing could be seen as over and done with. But seeing a lot people standing up for and cheering Smith's actions, him "standing up for his woman", feels like setting an extremely bad example. This is the kind of alpha male chest pounding that people really need to call out. Again, I could be wrong in seeing it that way, but that's very much how it came across to me.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Yeah, but the 'man must prove himself a man through violence' is an equally harmful mindset. Now, can I be 100% sure that's what spurred Smith on? No. But than neither can I say with certainty that Chris Rock knew about Jada's disability.

Also, apparently Chris Rock was severely bullied and beat up as a kid, so that slap might not have just been a sting on the cheek for him. You just don't put your hands on someone in a threatening manner, especially when you're bigger than them. Speaking from experience it can be really unsettingly to get physically assaulted out of nowhere, eventhough the act itself is "no more" than a slap to the face or a punch in the arm. Physical violence isn't just the physical, just as words aren't just words - they will leave an impact beyond the initial sting.
Saying that words have such an impact on people is so hard to quantify as well. It's easy to say that insults and words leave lasting mental impacts on people, however there are plenty of people that aren't effected by words at all, or are only so effected to be upset about ti for a few mintues before it goes away. So you have to assume that everyone around you is so sensitive that anything you say can be interpreted as an attack of some sort, or you have to assume you are in a room of decently adjusted people who can handle a couple jokes. It's fucking insane to put the blame on Chris for this because it is obvious that none of the jokes he told were done from a place of maliciousness.

The problem with assuming "words are violence" is you have to assume that everyone is weak in the mind and that words truly are potentially catastrophic to them, which isn't the case for a vast majority of people. These days, especially in hollywood, claiming you are victim or suffering from mental health is all the rage. Hollywood celebs are already narcissistic in general, though some more than others and as a result will say some wild shit to get some spotlight upon them. It's just the nature of it.

The fact that people try to quantify how the words were worst than the slap don't know what their talking about and are just picking their side of the fence on the issue for whatever reason.

Yeah that slap was a big shock to Chris, he thought those days were behind him long long ago. Being a small kid, humor is a fairly standard defensive mechanism and after making it a career there are just some things that adults should understand about jokes. No matter what Chris said, the joking around aspect should have been defense enough, because adults don't act this way. Not liking a joke is no grounds for violence PERIOD. What Will did was extremely pity and childish, no matter WHAT Chris said.

Go up to him afterwards and explain how the joke wasn't cool and 100% Chris would have been, "Hey I meant nothing by it, I apologize." DONE.
 

Silvanus

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And the joke was just a small fleeting sting everyone would have forgotten 5 minutes later. See, the problem is that you're trying to compare Alopecia to a slap. That's nonsensical as Chris Rock didn't give her Alopecia. He made one small joke about her haircut (and by extension her condition).
It was a bit inelegant/unclear on my part, but I was actually trying to compare the potential humiliation of a joke about alopecia to the humiliation caused by a slap. Both being directly caused by Rock and Smith. But yeah, my post structure wasn't the best.

I'm bald, it's really not a disability. Although maybe I should put that down the next time I apply for a job...
Are you male or female? You don't have to answer that, it's rhetorical; but my point is that baldness in women is very rarely just a natural part of aging. It's much more likely to be the result of something medical. And women are also subject to much more stigma surrounding hair loss than men are.

Yeah, but the 'man must prove himself a man through violence' is an equally harmful mindset. Now, can I be 100% sure that's what spurred Smith on? No. But than neither can I say with certainty that Chris Rock knew about Jada's disability.

Also, apparently Chris Rock was severely bullied and beat up as a kid, so that slap might not have just been a sting on the cheek for him. You just don't put your hands on someone in a threatening manner, especially when you're bigger than them. Speaking from experience it can be really unsettingly to get physically assaulted out of nowhere, eventhough the act itself is "no more" than a slap to the face or a punch in the arm. Physical violence isn't just the physical, just as words aren't just words - they will leave an impact beyond the initial sting.

Both of them seem to have apologized for the incident, Smith certainly has to Rock, so in regards to the two of them this whole thing could be seen as over and done with. But seeing a lot people standing up for and cheering Smith's actions, him "standing up for his woman", feels like setting an extremely bad example. This is the kind of alpha male chest pounding that people really need to call out. Again, I could be wrong in seeing it that way, but that's very much how it came across to me.
This is all fair and true. And I should reiterate that none of what I'm saying is intended as a justification or excuse. Smith shouldn't have done that; I just feel that the perspective is skewed.
 
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Generals

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Yes, bald men are famously okay with jokes about their unattractiveness. We don't get loads of articles about hot bald guys like Statham and Tucci to make bald men feel better. Just never see them.
Most humans are famously known not to be as thin skinned towards comedy as the "offense brigade" make them out to be.

That said, no matter how insensitive the joke, Will Smith absolutely should not have got up and slapped him.
Which is exactly the point. The joke might be bad, below the belt even. It's just a stupid joke, a fleeting sting. I don't think this joke will affect anyone's life any more than Will's slap. And it certainly didn't deserve such an escalation.

It was a bit inelegant/unclear on my part, but I was actually trying to compare the potential humiliation of a joke about alopecia to the humiliation caused by a slap. Both being directly caused by Rock and Smith. But yeah, my post structure wasn't the best.
But what is that humiliation? I don't see any reason to believe that humiliation would have lasted more than being publicly slapped.
 

CriticalGaming

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But what is that humiliation? I don't see any reason to believe that humiliation would have lasted more than being publicly slapped.
Exactly this. If Will had done nothing and the show had gone on as normal, people would have forgotten those jokes almost immediately. Now everyone knows the joke SOLELY because of the slap.

No slap, no memory.
 

Silvanus

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But what is that humiliation? I don't see any reason to believe that humiliation would have lasted more than being publicly slapped.
There is humiliation in an entire room/TV camera having its attention intentionally drawn to a medical condition you have. Especially if its one which has a sensitive visible side to it. Come on, that can't be under dispute.

I felt rather vulnerable when my friends and colleagues found out about my own long-term medical condition. If I'd had a damn TV camera in my face...?
 

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There is humiliation in an entire room/TV camera having its attention intentionally drawn to a medical condition you have. Especially if its one which has a sensitive visible side to it. Come on, that can't be under dispute.
That wasn't the case though. Chris Rock wasn't intentionally drawing attention to a medical condition which he most likely didn't know about. It was just a joke based on Jada Pinkett Smith looking a bit like Demi Moore in GI Jane. She looks pretty good with the shaved hair, which is probably why Rock felt safe in making the joke.
 

thebobmaster

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All I'll say is this. Amy Schumer made worse jokes on Oscar night than Chris Rock. Did she deserve to be slapped for them? No. But no one talks about her bad jokes, because everyone is talking about The Slap Heard Around the World, and whether or not the tastelessness of the joke justified the slap.
 

Silvanus

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That wasn't the case though. Chris Rock wasn't intentionally drawing attention to a medical condition which he most likely didn't know about.
Well, that's possible, but it's just an assumption.
 

CriticalGaming

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Well, that's possible, but it's just an assumption.
Isn't the offensiveness of the joke also an assumption? It's perfectly plausible that ANY joke towards Jada would have set her off, content be damned. I see a lot of people assuming offense on her behalf which is just as much projection as anything directed towards Will and Chris.
 
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Baffle

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Most humans are famously known not to be as thin skinned towards comedy as the "offense brigade" make them out to be
Not true. People aren't thin-skinned about humour they aren't the subject of. If you think otherwise you're an idiot lol.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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No, I'm not saying all that blah-de-blah is staged. I'm saying it's irrelevant. And the reason you're seeing connections and making assumptions about the private lives of two people you don't know anything about is that you've built an image of them that's been filtered and built by celebrity media.
yeh, both of whom have worked to build their images as they both have their own publicists etc etc. So like it or not the perception of Jada out there was Oked by Jada, which kind of makes it seem even worse in the end.
 

Generals

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There is humiliation in an entire room/TV camera having its attention intentionally drawn to a medical condition you have. Especially if its one which has a sensitive visible side to it. Come on, that can't be under dispute.

I felt rather vulnerable when my friends and colleagues found out about my own long-term medical condition. If I'd had a damn TV camera in my face...?
Which no one would have cared for hadn't Will slapped him. For those who didn't know this wasn't a fashion statement this wouldn't be known after the joke either.
And for those who knew about the condition nothing changed. If anything they would have probably judged Chris Rock rather than her.

Not true. People aren't thin-skinned about humour they aren't the subject of. If you think otherwise you're an idiot lol.
Most normal people have no issue being the subject of humour if it's clear it's humour. Only Narcissists and overtly sensitive types don't seem to be able to cope with that.
 
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Trunkage

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That wasn't the case though. Chris Rock wasn't intentionally drawing attention to a medical condition which he most likely didn't know about. It was just a joke based on Jada Pinkett Smith looking a bit like Demi Moore in GI Jane. She looks pretty good with the shaved hair, which is probably why Rock felt safe in making the joke.
No, it's been now revealed he did know about her conditions beforehand. But then, I dont think this knowledge pushes the needle in any way