Well, some of the bad actors not to be named aren't here anymore so maybe it won't be that bad this time?
What are you currently playing?
- Thread starter Nick Calandra
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I'm just so endlessly amused by the back and forth about realistic body types in the silly game filled with fungus zombies.
I do remember weird arguments about "realistic" character representation in games like COD and Battlefield, games that are balls to the walls crazy but god forbid we have a woman in the cast. I honestly don't miss that at all.
Eh, my stance with with Abbie was always that making your character visually appealing is important. I merely talked about balance. Bluegate was the one who started about realism by posting the model, so I responded to that. Need to clarify that I read fast, which is why I said "Who look" instead of "Who looks like shit." Thought he posted random bodybuilders rather than the model. But yeah, that model looks like shit. Won't deny that her dedication is commendable. Why anyone would want that kind of a design in a protagonist is beyond me.
Reminds me, those big human enemies are hilarious. The ones who will go on with bullet holes in their faces. That guy whose jaw you cut in half, was he on PCP? Just dumb.
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Dumber than this thing? -
What’s worse is reading an attempt at rationalizing it -
TLOUS II has so many dumb things, that Abby's model is the least of its problems. Pat lists a bunch of dumb shit from the game.
I didn't post those pictures to say that the character looks realistic or to make a comment about realism in the game, I posted those pictures to correct your wrong assumptions of how the character model was designed.
"I read so fast that I don't properly read what is written".
You know, it's more valuable to properly read what's being said rather than rushing over text and being able to say you "read" it fast.
Yes. It's like saying, "It's fine for Ian Malcolm to ride velociraptors because the dinosaurs being cloned and having their missing DNA replaced with frogs' is a silly idea anyway." You establish the one ridiculous thing and stick with it, instead of multiplying it by making the humans totally ridiculous too. Did those huge muscle men and women build muscle in their face that can stop bullets enough to continue fighting okay? The charging melee enemies who don't worry about getting shot and the huge people the size of three normal people are very common now. Find both of them lame in the majority of shooters that have them. If they really want that enemy variety, they are not obligated to keep placing their games in more or less grounded current day settings. Go to the future or fantasy and you can insert robots, cyborgs, aliens, monsters and mutants on top of the humans. Granted, not possible in The Last of Us. Means they have to be more creative in other areas.
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She also kills a good 20 to 30 people before feeling really bad about torturing one person by way of hitting her with a pipe. 'Oh no, I have to hit the square button three times to swing a pipe at someone off screen - I feel so bad about my actions. The dozens of times I torn open someone's throat with my knife or blew their limbs off as they screamed in pain were just fun gameplay though. No, no, THIS scripted bad action is the REAL deal. NOW Ellie feels bad.'
Honestly, if Ellie had let Abby live simply by not starting the fight and letting her go, I think that would've been a fine ending (to an otherwise terrible story). It could then be viewed or argued that maybe Ellie was too physically and mentally exhausted to pursue a fight, maybe she actually felt Abbby had suffered enough, or maybe she was just revenged out and she just didn't care anymore. But as soon as she starts that fight, after everything, the state that she's in, still wanting to kill her, and THEN deciding to choose mercy... fuck off.
Ellie gets the best combat arenas, Abby gets the best level/event designs.
Yeah, but he also made a bunch of dumb shit up. I don't know if it's in this video, but I remember watching him stream the game and he was echoing a bunch of nonsense claims, like Amy Henning actually wrote TLoU and Druckmannn stole it, and that Druckmann modeled himself in the game to spit on Joel's corpse. He even flipped his shit so hard at one point thinking the game was talking about fucking up a bunch of kids that Paige had to calm him down and say 'Relax Pat, they're just talking about a snowball fight'.
The Last of Us Part II Review - The Last Of Us Part II Review – A Perfect Circle - Game Informer
Naughty Dog's masterpiece is a sequel unlike any other, taking video game storytelling to new heights.
www.gameinformer.com
"These philosophical considerations can be uncomfortable to wrestle with, but Naughty Dog conveys them with careful nuance and unflinching emotion, creating a narrative masterpiece with a unique power few games have ever achieved."
The Last of Us Part 2 review – post-apocalyptic game is groundbreaking and powerful
PlayStation 4; Naughty Dog/SonyThis intense game set in a post-disaster world poses moral questions about the motivations for violence and is brilliantly acted by its human contributors. (Spoiler free)
www.theguardian.com
"Instead, it’s about the motivations for that violence, the endless cycles of retribution that pull individuals or whole populations down into destructive spirals, and what it takes to break those cycles. There were parts of it that I had to endure rather than enjoy, furious or disgusted by what characters were doing – and, by extension, by what I was doing. There will be many players who don’t like where this story takes them, but by God, it’s emotionally effective."
"The Last of Us Part II is defined by its story at every turn, and Naughty Dog masterfully weaves its themes in at every level. It depicts the raw violence that Ellie uses to navigate this harsh world, and that violence feeds into pivotal plot points during her quest for revenge. Yes, you kill many humans and Infected along the way, but the accumulated effect of Ellie’s fury weighs on you over time. Even as you clear an area of hostile guards, you question your own role in the brutality. The people you assassinate have names, and you can overhear them talking about their loved ones as you sneak up on them."
I am surprised Pat actually believed that shit. Wouldn't be first time that happened, or made up shit that was not true at all.
It's funny how they speak all these words, yet say or convey nothing at the same time.
I played some more NGS2, and man are these levels long. The one thing I appreciate about most DMC games is that the levels don't stretch on or drag. Sigma 2 suffers from this. It does thing a lot of people don't like and I agree: where they forced you to play another character in the middle of Ryu's campaign. I appreciate them trying to add more replay value, Momiji (and I am assuming the same for Rachel's and Ayane's later chapters), but these should have been separate campaign mode. All you are doing is playing the same level you already wen through, but a truncated version with a different character you're not gonna how to use or try to adjust your first time through. Currently on chapter 5 and will try to finish Momiji's chapter when I get home later.
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The Ascent
For a fixed isometric camera style twin-stick shooter, this is a surprisingly dense cyberpunk world they've made: visually, narratively, gameplay...ly. I am impressed. The lore is crafted in a way that care about the political interconnectedness of the world. It's aesthetically intensely pleasing if you like the grimy oppressive design of the most despairing of cyberpunk worlds, the ones where byzantine mega-complexes are layered upon mega-complexes as if forced into each other through sheer lack of space left on the planet, and it's never clear where or how far the ground or sky is from your current position, if they exist in any appreciable form at all. Hub areas are filled to the brim with details, NPCs, chatter, neon drenched markets etc.
I started on hard difficulty and it is certainly a challenge. there's also an element of cover shooting in a weird sense which isn't technically necessary to indulge in for easier horde moments, but when human enemies start getting tricky using the same tactic it becomes vital to survival. Though death isn't particularly punishing as you still keep all your process and items, only spawning a couple of feet away too.
A couple of annoyances so far are 1: taking strategic cover is usually pretty difficult once aggro'd as enemies (after a bit of progress) are often engaging in a mixture of bum-rushing you, spawning behind you or spamming various explosives, so it's a bit messy unless you got the drop on them, and even then...
2: Level recommendations for quests/side quests are not to be trusted. At level 10 I decided to go on a level 2 recommended side quest, only to find the door at the end blocked and surrounded by enemies almost twice my level and very pissed off I was daring to sniff around their filthy cyber pipe halls, I had to run away from this quest I was allegedly 5 times too powerful for because they were kicking my chrome-riddled ass all over the place. The shames!
For a fixed isometric camera style twin-stick shooter, this is a surprisingly dense cyberpunk world they've made: visually, narratively, gameplay...ly. I am impressed. The lore is crafted in a way that care about the political interconnectedness of the world. It's aesthetically intensely pleasing if you like the grimy oppressive design of the most despairing of cyberpunk worlds, the ones where byzantine mega-complexes are layered upon mega-complexes as if forced into each other through sheer lack of space left on the planet, and it's never clear where or how far the ground or sky is from your current position, if they exist in any appreciable form at all. Hub areas are filled to the brim with details, NPCs, chatter, neon drenched markets etc.
I started on hard difficulty and it is certainly a challenge. there's also an element of cover shooting in a weird sense which isn't technically necessary to indulge in for easier horde moments, but when human enemies start getting tricky using the same tactic it becomes vital to survival. Though death isn't particularly punishing as you still keep all your process and items, only spawning a couple of feet away too.
A couple of annoyances so far are 1: taking strategic cover is usually pretty difficult once aggro'd as enemies (after a bit of progress) are often engaging in a mixture of bum-rushing you, spawning behind you or spamming various explosives, so it's a bit messy unless you got the drop on them, and even then...
2: Level recommendations for quests/side quests are not to be trusted. At level 10 I decided to go on a level 2 recommended side quest, only to find the door at the end blocked and surrounded by enemies almost twice my level and very pissed off I was daring to sniff around their filthy cyber pipe halls, I had to run away from this quest I was allegedly 5 times too powerful for because they were kicking my chrome-riddled ass all over the place. The shames!
Abbie's model actually looks weird because they tried to "feminize" it and added details that would normally be covered up or changed by that amount of muscle mass.
Its most evident in the necks and shoulders. They started with a female bodybuilder sure, but then tried to smooth it out. Whether to make it more "girl" or in a bad attempt to de-age, who knows. But they landed somewhere where it doesn't balance out logically.
Its most evident in the necks and shoulders. They started with a female bodybuilder sure, but then tried to smooth it out. Whether to make it more "girl" or in a bad attempt to de-age, who knows. But they landed somewhere where it doesn't balance out logically.
The first game handled its commentary on violence way better by not shoving your face so nakedly into it. The sequel unfortunately feels the need to force your head into the ocean to tell you that water is wet.The Last of Us Part II Review - The Last Of Us Part II Review – A Perfect Circle - Game Informer
Naughty Dog's masterpiece is a sequel unlike any other, taking video game storytelling to new heights.
"These philosophical considerations can be uncomfortable to wrestle with, but Naughty Dog conveys them with careful nuance and unflinching emotion, creating a narrative masterpiece with a unique power few games have ever achieved."
The Last of Us Part 2 review – post-apocalyptic game is groundbreaking and powerful
PlayStation 4; Naughty Dog/SonyThis intense game set in a post-disaster world poses moral questions about the motivations for violence and is brilliantly acted by its human contributors. (Spoiler free)
"Instead, it’s about the motivations for that violence, the endless cycles of retribution that pull individuals or whole populations down into destructive spirals, and what it takes to break those cycles. There were parts of it that I had to endure rather than enjoy, furious or disgusted by what characters were doing – and, by extension, by what I was doing. There will be many players who don’t like where this story takes them, but by God, it’s emotionally effective."
"The Last of Us Part II is defined by its story at every turn, and Naughty Dog masterfully weaves its themes in at every level. It depicts the raw violence that Ellie uses to navigate this harsh world, and that violence feeds into pivotal plot points during her quest for revenge. Yes, you kill many humans and Infected along the way, but the accumulated effect of Ellie’s fury weighs on you over time. Even as you clear an area of hostile guards, you question your own role in the brutality. The people you assassinate have names, and you can overhear them talking about their loved ones as you sneak up on them."
It'd be nice if Naughty Dog could step away from this shit for a while, make a new IP that doesn't have a contemporary setting. Something sci-fi or fantasy, not generic brown-haired white person walking through overgrown buildings.
p.s. Maria was the best character for staying out of this bullshit. I guess someone made it out of this fucking trash fire unscathed.
This is the problem with story driven games with all that leudonarrative dissonance crap that became such a buzzword term in 7th gen IIRC. I don’t think many of these devs know how to make a game interesting without shooting people. Well, at least someone like Kojima always baked the pacifist option into the MGS games, because for all his storytelling flaws of excess at least he seemed to have always understood something vital.Finished it today. God that was grim. Really don't understand the draw to that kind of storytelling. If the characters' actions made sense it would at least be more excusable.Ellie murders about 150 people to spare one. Joel would be so proud.
Abbie is a crappy character design. Just made her arms as big as possible and called it a day. Looked through my photo collection for muscular women and found bodybuilder Lisa Lyon. Much better balance there. Doesn't look like they simply attached a man's arms and shoulders to a woman's body.
Those 21 floors you descend without an elevator in the spore-infested building were one of my favorite settings in the series.
Well, it's this type of gameplay that requires a story that goes along well with it. A character like Kratos fits big monster murder fests. Even Jessi Faden in Control fits with the 'shoot a whole bunch of enemies' gameplay despite the "realism". TLoU1 takes it as far is it can go without knocking the balance out of wack, and TLoU2 just cracks under the contrast between the realistc consequences it so desperately tries to push and the consequence free shoot 'm uping.
I said it before, and I'll say it again: part 2 should have just been a completely new cast of characters. The narrative still would have had problems, but it wouldn't have dependended so heavily on the first game. This game is nothing more than bad, edgelord, fanfiction. As far as I'm concerned there's only one Last Of Us game.
The funny thing is that the Japanese developers usually have no trouble, most of the time, making this work. They've had their slip-ups too, don't get me wrong, but it's nothing compared to how much the Western side screws this up. Say whatever you will about Grasshopper/Suda51's games, but they're pretty consistent with how their characters act out in cutscenes and gameplay. The Killer 7 are Stone Cold assassins with standards and ethics. That said, they're not afraid to get their hands dirty or kill busy bodies for knowing too much. Travis Touchdown fits with his antics as a loser otaku becoming assassin. Here's this guy killing people for anime shirts and to be the number one assassin (galactic superhero in III), while doing all these hilarious odd jobs.
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I don't know about new characters. I think Joel and Ellie are pretty apt cyphers for the setting; Joel is from the old world, Ellie is from the new world. And the chemistry between the two actors is hard I think to find a match for. Let's say TLoU2 was entirely about Abby and Lev (and Yara), it still would've felt reminiscent of Joel and Ellie. Either the characters would be like Joel and Ellie, or they wouldn't be like Joel and Ellie, and you think 'hmm, they're not Joel and Ellie'.
I like he idea of Ellie being the main character a lot, since the first game leaves her in a turbulent state of mind, but just turning her into another one-man army killer is incredibly ill-conceived. They could've used this oppertunity to break away from the usual sequel formula; make a sequel to a violent action game, and make it passive, make it fit where the character is in that point of their life. And Naughty Dog would've likely been allowed to make it, they're in the privileged position as a studio to take that risk. Make it actually bold, where Ellie rejects Joel's way of life, and better yet, rejects him.
Japanese games are never that serious, so it's easier to get away with inconsistencies that otherwise would've broken the tone. Even something like Silent Hill 2, which gets dark as fuck, has some goofiness sprinkled in with Eddie eating pizza and how some of the dialoge is written. And they're usually very good at finding the right amount of both silly and sincere.
All that is better than whatever ND cooked up. I still would have preferred different characters, but Joe or Ellie show up as either minor cameos or get mentioned in passings.
Exactly. That said though, when they want to get super serious and get it right, they get serious and get it right. Regardless, most importantly a lot of these games remember to have some form of humanity and are not afraid to get silly/fun when necessary and appropriate.
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I am killing Argonians on X3 Albion Prelude. Get dunked race traitors. Yo split, why don't your green ass make me some eggs and ham. Hey, Boron, tell your queen to drown herself, hey Paranid go suck off the Argonians. Hey Argonians why don't I trade you some whoop ass?