Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade; states can ban abortion

tstorm823

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A microcosm of... people not managing their finances?

Like, I'm not the one pretending that every poor person is buying $720 phones. Most poor people aren't buying $300 phones. Most don't have avo toast, have a car, buy expensive clothes or go out for expensive food

The average poor person manages the fuck out of their finances. They just don't earn enough money for any sort of financing leading to savings of any substance

YOU missed the point. Just because SOME people can't manage their finances, doesn't not mean poor people can't
Anecdotally, when I was in high school riding the public bus, I witnessed a conversation between two people where they bragged to each other about their Blackberry and iPod respectively (this was like 2005, those were a bigger deal), and then subsequently they talked about which food banks give out the best stuff. Then they both got off at the trailer park.

Those people can manage their finances. They absolutely did manage their finances. Their choice of management was to travel around to multiple food banks for their food and then save their money for expensive electronics.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Yeah, see, we can still bully democrats into doing stuff.They just passed a few things, dunno if you've been watching the news. Not, like, super great things, but better than the nothing your folks have done. Plus, things like complete federal abortion bans are things they don't support, out of a base survival instinct if nothing else

Amazing that you'll accept a YouTube video but not a Twitter post linking to a YouTube video. Your brain is fascinating
And the stuff another party would've passed if you all voted for them instead? You have such a low bar for competence.

Why would I go on Twitter to have to filter through like 1,000 garbage tweets for 1 good one? It's not like you have to filter through that type of garbage on Youtube to find good content.

I mean, we're at the point where that has to change or we've all got bigger problems.

1/4 of people living in Chicago don't own cars, and that's a pretty normal figure for US cities. It's quite a lot lower than the equivalent percentage in most European cities, but it is clearly possible to survive in a major US city by using public transport. Millions of people do it.



It's a much, much bigger thing than worrying about your cellphone contract..



Thus, when comparing that cost of living, you should adjust your expenses to account for the lost earning potential of not being in a major city before deciding you've found some magic money hack anyone can use to solve all their financial problems.



I'm confused about what you think this statement means or does.



..but it is a way to save money.
People driving cars is leading to some existential crisis that nobody knows about?

I didn't say you couldn't go with a car in Chicago. I implied it's not a good, content position to be in. I took public transport for about a year and a half. It's not better than driving to work in the suburbs. You still have money costs associated with taking public transport and you have a lot of time wasted as well because you're talking non-direct routes to places.

Cell phone was a microcosm that you supposed to apply to everything...

How are you earning more in a big city if you have to spend more to live there. Like if you get $40,000/year in a suburb and $50,000/year in a big city for the same job and the big city cost of living is $10,000 more than how are you earning more money in the big city? That was the point I was making.

Uhh... You control what you eat, don't eat garbage food and you won't be fat. Eating healthy is hardly expensive. Unless we're talking like eating ramen noodles for eating poorly to save money, you can eat healthy for basically the same price of eating unhealthy. I spend like $20/week on groceries and it's all healthy food, I spend $2 for lunch for soup at the hospital I work at and my dinner meal probably costs like $6 at most to make, that's less than $10/day for food, that's cheaper than a combo meal from a fast food place. Also, if you do eat properly, you're eating less food so you can spend more per pound of food since you're eating less and keep the same food budget. Once I greatly switched my diet about 8 months back, I'm hardly even hungry and sometimes skip making dinner like I did last night and just snacked on some pistachios.

A microcosm of... people not managing their finances?

Like, I'm not the one pretending that every poor person is buying $720 phones. Most poor people aren't buying $300 phones. Most don't have avo toast, have a car, buy expensive clothes or go out for expensive food

The average poor person manages the fuck out of their finances. They just don't earn enough money for any sort of financing leading to savings of any substance

YOU missed the point. Just because SOME people can't manage their finances, doesn't not mean poor people can't
Everyone I know that has money issues has a more expensive phone than me and spends more than 3x on phone costs than I do. Most people can't manage finances that well regardless of what income bracket they are in so a majority of well-off people can't and a majority of poor people can't.
 

Agema

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Those people can manage their finances. They absolutely did manage their finances. Their choice of management was to travel around to multiple food banks for their food and then save their money for expensive electronics.
Fair play to them then: the same sort of tactics running a business would be viewed as savvy.

Although, to be clear, I am sure that they lack a significant number of other aptitudes and opportunities required to successfully run a business.
 

Terminal Blue

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People driving cars is leading to some existential crisis that nobody knows about?
Everyone knows about it. It's called climate change.

About 25% of global CO2 emissions come from cars and other road vehicles. If CO2 emissions are left unchecked at this stage, then by the end of the century the primary concern for many people is going to be whether their home will be destroyed in a hurricane this summer, not whether they could live more cheaply in the suburbs.

I implied it's not a good, content position to be in.
Are you defending the right to waste money on an expensive, wasteful object because you believe it makes your life easier and/or makes you happier?

How are you earning more in a big city if you have to spend more to live there.
How are you spending less living outside a big city if you earn less by living there?

You seem to have misunderstood. The point is not that you will be richer if you live in a big city. The problem is that this idea that anyone can solve their financial problems by moving out of a big city doesn't work for a whole range of reasons, not least of which is that many people can earn far more living in a major city than they could otherwise.

Uhh... You control what you eat, don't eat garbage food and you won't be fat.
You also control where you live. Don't live in a place where you have to drive to get anywhere and you'll get more exercise and will find it easier to maintain a healthy weight.

It's easy to throw out dumb, simplistic personal responsibility answers to any percieved problem, but if your response to problems with your own belief system is "I don't care, that's on you" then I don't care about the supposed merits of your belief system. If you believe that living in the suburbs doesn't make people fat, you're still statistically wrong.

I spend like $20/week on groceries and it's all healthy food, I spend $2 for lunch for soup at the hospital I work at and my dinner meal probably costs like $6 at most to make, that's less than $10/day for food, that's cheaper than a combo meal from a fast food place.
See, you say this like it's impressive. But it's not impressive. On one hand, it sounds pretty spartan and miserable and not really aspirational at all. On the other hand, if you want to compare the ability to survive on very little money, I've survived on far less in a country where food prices are generally higher, and I have friends who have more experience of poverty who have at times been able to survive on even less than me. Saying that doesn't make me feel proud because it's not a thing to be proud of. There is nothing admirable about having to eat sugar in order to get enough calories. It's a thing you survive and adapt to, not a way anyone voluntarily chooses to live because they think it will let them buy a house one day.

The idea that you must be good at managing money because you've never been in a state of actual material hardship is extremely silly. How do you think people in that state survive except by not spending money? Not spending money sucks, and the reason people don't do it, the reason people choose to eat the food they want or to spend money on electronics and entertainment, is not because they lack your self-discipline, it's because they value the ability to do that, and because most people in a secular nation don't assumes they have to leave money aside to move out of state because their state government decided to start imposing religious law.

Everyone I know that has money issues has a more expensive phone than me and spends more than 3x on phone costs than I do.
Sounds like you don't know many people with money issues.
 
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McElroy

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Sounds like you don't know many people with money issues.
The picture forming here shows our hero Phoenixmgs surrounded by rather average consumers or maybe even below average (I can compare to my half-braindead cousin who "effortlessly" saved for a 90s Mustang GT from his janitor's salary by... living with his parents) who have it alright but complain that prices go up. It's true that frugality inspires envy in one's peers sometimes (like, since this thread has become anecdote city, my frugality with money raises all sorts of reactions in my family with the basic premise being that I must be loaded and ready to wallet-smack anybody and any problem).

Poor people can't abstract money to a number that goes up and down in their accounts. As you said, spending money is survival day to day.
 
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Agema

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The picture forming here shows our hero Phoenixmgs surrounded by rather average consumers or maybe even below average (I can compare to my half-braindead cousin who "effortlessly" saved for a 90s Mustang GT from his janitor's salary by... living with his parents) who have it alright but complain that prices go up. It's true that frugality inspires envy in one's peers sometimes (like, since this thread has become anecdote city, my frugality with money raises all sorts of reactions in my family with the basic premise being that I must be loaded and ready to wallet-smack anybody and any problem).

Poor people can't abstract money to a number that goes up and down in their accounts. As you said, spending money is survival day to day.
Yep.

I think there is a wider societal problem that to some extent people's expectations of what they should have does not match what they can afford. But who can blame them, when they are bombarded day and night with advertising? And not just that, but advertising overwhelmingly pitched at the wealthiest classes who have the money to burn for advertisers to get most profit from.

But we have to make a distinction between people who can always pay for necessities but face significant limitations on luxuries, and people who routinely struggle to afford necessities. I don't begrudge the poor some luxuries: otherwise their life would be beyond miserable (plus they'd probably also be much more angry, inclined to criminality and social disorder). I also think some people can have a funny idea of what luxuries are. I think we're at the point where tech is so embedded in normal societal dealings that a smartphone should be considered a basic thing for welfare to cover.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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I don't begrudge the poor some luxuries: otherwise their life would be beyond miserable (plus they'd probably also be much more angry, inclined to criminality and social disorder).
There are some people who want poverty to be a universally hellish and fatal condition- so that "those lazy people stop laying around on the dole and go get a job".
 

Phoenixmgs

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Everyone knows about it. It's called climate change.

About 25% of global CO2 emissions come from cars and other road vehicles. If CO2 emissions are left unchecked at this stage, then by the end of the century the primary concern for many people is going to be whether their home will be destroyed in a hurricane this summer, not whether they could live more cheaply in the suburbs.



Are you defending the right to waste money on an expensive, wasteful object because you believe it makes your life easier and/or makes you happier?



How are you spending less living outside a big city if you earn less by living there?

You seem to have misunderstood. The point is not that you will be richer if you live in a big city. The problem is that this idea that anyone can solve their financial problems by moving out of a big city doesn't work for a whole range of reasons, not least of which is that many people can earn far more living in a major city than they could otherwise.



You also control where you live. Don't live in a place where you have to drive to get anywhere and you'll get more exercise and will find it easier to maintain a healthy weight.

It's easy to throw out dumb, simplistic personal responsibility answers to any percieved problem, but if your response to problems with your own belief system is "I don't care, that's on you" then I don't care about the supposed merits of your belief system. If you believe that living in the suburbs doesn't make people fat, you're still statistically wrong.



See, you say this like it's impressive. But it's not impressive. On one hand, it sounds pretty spartan and miserable and not really aspirational at all. On the other hand, if you want to compare the ability to survive on very little money, I've survived on far less in a country where food prices are generally higher, and I have friends who have more experience of poverty who have at times been able to survive on even less than me. Saying that doesn't make me feel proud because it's not a thing to be proud of. There is nothing admirable about having to eat sugar in order to get enough calories. It's a thing you survive and adapt to, not a way anyone voluntarily chooses to live because they think it will let them buy a house one day.

The idea that you must be good at managing money because you've never been in a state of actual material hardship is extremely silly. How do you think people in that state survive except by not spending money? Not spending money sucks, and the reason people don't do it, the reason people choose to eat the food they want or to spend money on electronics and entertainment, is not because they lack your self-discipline, it's because they value the ability to do that, and because most people in a secular nation don't assumes they have to leave money aside to move out of state because their state government decided to start imposing religious law.



Sounds like you don't know many people with money issues.
Switching to say EVs isn't going to save the planet either. There's nothing wrong with the car itself, it's that we've used the same fossil fuel tech for too long.

I'm saying time is more important than money. I'm not wasting an hour of my time trying to get somewhere on public transport when I don't have to. And what if you have to get somewhere that public transport doesn't reach or is just so inconvenient it's not worth taking it?

I know Chicago and NYC, it's way more money to live there than the increased pay rate (at least for normal jobs, executives or whatever probably make bank). You said big cities have earning potential that you're losing out on.

So all your friends, family, and job requirements are supposed to be within like biking distance of each other? That's not really something people can do. You really have this extreme hatred for cars for like no reason. Also, exercise isn't that key to staying at a healthy weight because it doesn't burn as much calories as one would think, diet is far more important in that regard. Of course, not saying exercise is bad or anything but you can't eat like shit and make up all the extra calories with exercise unless you're really ridiculous with your exercising.

It wasn't meant to be impressive, it was just a normal common sense thing. Don't eat garbage and you won't get fat. And you can easily choose to eat healthy food vs unhealthy food unless you are extremely poor. You put money aside for when bad shit happens regards of what that bad shit is. 32% of Americans can't afford a $400 emergency expense, 32% of Americans are not that destitute that they actually can't afford that.

I do know people that have actual money problems. Dipping into your 401k to fix your car is not an actual money problem? Not being able to afford an extra $5 on a Friday is not an actual money problem? Both those instances are people with no housing costs having those money issues, how are they to own or rent if they are that bad with managing money?
Yep.

I think there is a wider societal problem that to some extent people's expectations of what they should have does not match what they can afford. But who can blame them, when they are bombarded day and night with advertising? And not just that, but advertising overwhelmingly pitched at the wealthiest classes who have the money to burn for advertisers to get most profit from.

But we have to make a distinction between people who can always pay for necessities but face significant limitations on luxuries, and people who routinely struggle to afford necessities. I don't begrudge the poor some luxuries: otherwise their life would be beyond miserable (plus they'd probably also be much more angry, inclined to criminality and social disorder). I also think some people can have a funny idea of what luxuries are. I think we're at the point where tech is so embedded in normal societal dealings that a smartphone should be considered a basic thing for welfare to cover.
And people watch advertising why? The only time I ever see ads is very occasionally when I watch a live sports games which is less and less and less. I don't even have my smart TV connected to the internet, I watch everything off my desktop connected to the TV. People's view of necessities often include many luxuries because they feel they are entitled to them.
 

Phoenixmgs

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:rolleyes:

Just once in this forum, can you please put some effort into imagining what it is like to be another human being?
Why does the average person need to watch ads with everyone doing streaming? Also, if you do watch ads, you can like, you know, not let them affect you. You know there is such a thing as self-control. How can an ad for Pepsi make you buy Pepsi, don't you know Pepsi already exists and don't you already choose to drink or not drink Pepsi at this point regardless of ads? Or do you forget Pepsi exists until you see an ad for it? I watched normal TV most of my life and didn't let ads affect me. The only ads that did anything was for something I didn't know existed.

Can people put forth effort in taking responsibility for their own choices instead of blaming anything and everything else? You can't eat healthy because it's too expensive or you see too many McDonalds ads because that's fucking bullshit you tell yourself to continue eating poorly.

Hey, maybe Phoenix just doesn't ever use the internet! Bet you didn't consider that possibility.
The internet is the easiest place to not see ads.
 

Avnger

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Why does the average person need to watch ads with everyone doing streaming?
Streaming also contains ads, like all the time.

Watch a Twitch stream? Ads. Watch a sports stream? Ads. Watch a Youtube stream? Ads. Watch Hulu? Ads. Watch HBO? Ads. Watch Netflix? Ads.

Also, if you do watch ads, you can like, you know, not let them affect you. You know there is such a thing as self-control. How can an ad for Pepsi make you buy Pepsi, don't you know Pepsi already exists and don't you already choose to drink or not drink Pepsi at this point regardless of ads? Or do you forget Pepsi exists until you see an ad for it? I watched normal TV most of my life and didn't let ads affect me. The only ads that did anything was for something I didn't know existed.
Advertisers HATE him. With this one simple trick, he has defeated all advertising, forever.

How does it feel to have outwitted centuries of psychological science and advertising research with this approach? Have you applied for your Nobel yet?

Can people put forth effort in taking responsibility for their own choices instead of blaming anything and everything else? You can't eat healthy because it's too expensive or you see too many McDonalds ads because that's fucking bullshit you tell yourself to continue eating poorly.
Congratulations. This paragraph epitomizes exactly what Agema was talking about.

The internet is the easiest place to not see ads.
Or, hear me out for a second, you're really bad at recognizing the number of ads you regularly see, just like every other human being.
 

tstorm823

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The internet is the easiest place to not see ads.
Even if you blocked every ad on the internet, the content you're on here for is still itself advertising. We're on a primarily video game focused website where all the features and articles are shoving video games in your face. That is encouragement to buy video games. If you could cut all the advertisements out of an NBA game, no commercials, no banners in the background, no explicit product placement, you are still being encouraged to by team merchandise and fancy sneakers by the desired content. You cannot avoid these things, and highly profitable enterprises pay money to be in your face in every possible way, you can't avoid it anywhere but absolute wilderness.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Why does the average person need to watch ads with everyone doing streaming? Also, if you do watch ads, you can like, you know, not let them affect you. You know there is such a thing as self-control. How can an ad for Pepsi make you buy Pepsi, don't you know Pepsi already exists and don't you already choose to drink or not drink Pepsi at this point regardless of ads? Or do you forget Pepsi exists until you see an ad for it? I watched normal TV most of my life and didn't let ads affect me. The only ads that did anything was for something I didn't know existed.

Can people put forth effort in taking responsibility for their own choices instead of blaming anything and everything else? You can't eat healthy because it's too expensive or you see too many McDonalds ads because that's fucking bullshit you tell yourself to continue eating poorly.


The internet is the easiest place to not see ads.
You know not all ads are "ads" right? When you watch a TV show or movie there is product placement all over the place embedded in whatever you're watching trying to get your attention. The hero in the action movie you just watched drank a bottle of Johnny Walker on screen? That's an ad even though the movie isn't slapping the logo in your face telling you "buy Johnny Walker." A TV show where someone uses Siri to get directions? That's an ad for an iPhone.

Ads are not avoidable, you see them every day even if you're doing your best to avoid them. The fact that you don't even seem to recognize that they're ads just goes to show how effective they actually are at disguising themselves as content.

And yes, people are affected by what they see on TV. When a TV show character is able to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in the middle of a major city on a waitress salary with no roommates, and spends every friday night partying and getting into hijinks it does create an expectation in the people who watch that show that this is something achievable. That is a certain lifestyle that is being advertised to them, and all of the material possessions that character has and prominently uses are also being advertised to the viewers.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Streaming also contains ads, like all the time.

Watch a Twitch stream? Ads. Watch a sports stream? Ads. Watch a Youtube stream? Ads. Watch Hulu? Ads. Watch HBO? Ads. Watch Netflix? Ads.



Advertisers HATE him. With this one simple trick, he has defeated all advertising, forever.

How does it feel to have outwitted centuries of psychological science and advertising research with this approach? Have you applied for your Nobel yet?



Congratulations. This paragraph epitomizes exactly what Agema was talking about.



Or, hear me out for a second, you're really bad at recognizing the number of ads you regularly see, just like every other human being.
Neflix doesn't even have a plan with ads yet. HBO, the extra $5 is worth it for no ads. Why would anyone watch Twitch? I watch Mario Maker vids at lunch at work and I couldn't bear watching that shit on a stream without it edited down with all the repetitive shit taken out.

How are people not desensitized to ads? I also totally didn't understand how people fall for this shit either, I'm in and out of a grocery store in less than 10 mins.


This attitude epitomizes the young generation, nothing is ever their fault.


Even if you blocked every ad on the internet, the content you're on here for is still itself advertising. We're on a primarily video game focused website where all the features and articles are shoving video games in your face. That is encouragement to buy video games. If you could cut all the advertisements out of an NBA game, no commercials, no banners in the background, no explicit product placement, you are still being encouraged to by team merchandise and fancy sneakers by the desired content. You cannot avoid these things, and highly profitable enterprises pay money to be in your face in every possible way, you can't avoid it anywhere but absolute wilderness.
I just have an Escaptist tab open to the forum page. I buy things based on if I need them or really want them, all an ad does for me is inform me the thing exists (assuming I didn't know). The ad doesn't make me want to buy something any more or any less. The Cubs are my favorite sports team, I ain't gonna buy a White Sox hat if I go to a White Sox game because I'm indifferent to the White Sox. I will buy Cubs merch from time to time because they are my favorite team, the ads are not going to change my buying habits.

You know not all ads are "ads" right? When you watch a TV show or movie there is product placement all over the place embedded in whatever you're watching trying to get your attention. The hero in the action movie you just watched drank a bottle of Johnny Walker on screen? That's an ad even though the movie isn't slapping the logo in your face telling you "buy Johnny Walker." A TV show where someone uses Siri to get directions? That's an ad for an iPhone.

Ads are not avoidable, you see them every day even if you're doing your best to avoid them. The fact that you don't even seem to recognize that they're ads just goes to show how effective they actually are at disguising themselves as content.

And yes, people are affected by what they see on TV. When a TV show character is able to rent a 2 bedroom apartment in the middle of a major city on a waitress salary with no roommates, and spends every friday night partying and getting into hijinks it does create an expectation in the people who watch that show that this is something achievable. That is a certain lifestyle that is being advertised to them, and all of the material possessions that character has and prominently uses are also being advertised to the viewers.
And...? Why is that altering your buying habits? A character getting directions from Siri will make me like the character less because Apple products are such shit. Finally got rid of the fucking iPhone I had from work as we finally switched to Android. The ads aren't disguised, I just don't give them the time of day or they are so innocuous that they don't even register. Like why am I gonna care that a character is drinking Pepsi, they have to drink something if they're eating a meal, drinking some made up thing is more noticeable than them drinking a Pepsi in fact. Is your friend drinking Mountain Dew when you hang out making you drink more Mountain Dew? Seriously, have just a semblance of self-control. Ha, one of the waitresses at the bar on Friday rents a place I couldn't afford.
 

Trunkage

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Anecdotally, when I was in high school riding the public bus, I witnessed a conversation between two people where they bragged to each other about their Blackberry and iPod respectively (this was like 2005, those were a bigger deal), and then subsequently they talked about which food banks give out the best stuff. Then they both got off at the trailer park.

Those people can manage their finances. They absolutely did manage their finances. Their choice of management was to travel around to multiple food banks for their food and then save their money for expensive electronics.
Here I'll say it to you to. Because apparently I just need to keep saying it

There are people like you described here

That does NOT mean everyone is like this

If you are buying a $720 phone, which is three quarters of the weekly pay packet of a minimum wage earner, might I suggest you are talking about young idiots who arent really that poor. They just haven't worked for a long time. I believe you'd call them millennials
 

Terminal Blue

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Switching to say EVs isn't going to save the planet either.
No, it's not, which is why I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. In general, people who commit heavily to the idea that electric vehicles will solve climate change have either been suckered by tech bros or they are cynically looking for excuses to avoid the conclusion of needing to make more radical changes.

In order to "save the planet", there needs to be a rethinking of the way human living spaces are designed and laid out in order to reduce car dependence altogether. This means investing heavily in public transport. It means ending single use zoning. It means ensuring residential areas are pedestrian-accessible. It means enabling people to work-from-home more, and it means building large amounts of affordable subsidized housing (particularly in urban areas) so people can afford to live closer to where they work. We are a long, long way from this, but some urban governments even in the US are beginning to move in the right direction, and we can expect it to continue.

Electric vehicles cannot replace fossil fuel burning vehicles, and they won't for a long, long time. Maybe for certain forms of personal use if someone is willing to accept the limitations and if governments are willing to invest heavily in the green energy infrastructure to make them ecologically sustainable (which admittedly is another thing which needs to happen immanently in order to avoid disaster) but absolutely not for any kind of logistical use. For the time being, a certain amount of fossil fuel burning vehicle use is unavoidable. There is, however, a pretty urgent need to minimize that use.

I'm saying time is more important than money.
So why live are you advocating for urban workers to move out of cities and commute in order to take advantage of lower house prices?

And what if you have to get somewhere that public transport doesn't reach or is just so inconvenient it's not worth taking it?
Why would you ever need to go to such a place unless you already live there? Do you want to get sacrificed to a malevolent corn spirit?

I know Chicago and NYC, it's way more money to live there than the increased pay rate (at least for normal jobs, executives or whatever probably make bank).
Are you sure?

Do you think there are no poor people living in Chicago or NYC? How are they managing it if your galaxy brained money-saving genius can't?

You really have this extreme hatred for cars for like no reason.
Cars are literally destroying the ecosystem of the planet we live in and degrading the living standards of future humanity. They render urban and suburban spaces dangerous and hostile for pedestrians and unsafe for children. They kill vast numbers of people each year. They create air pollution which leads to many people developing health problems. They're noisy and unsightly.

There are plenty of reasons to hate cars. I don't hate them though, they will always be useful and necessary for some people. I just think structuring your life (and on the social level, structuring your cities) in such a way that you are reliant on them to do anything is dumb and unnecessary

Also, exercise isn't that key to staying at a healthy weight because it doesn't burn as much calories as one would think,
..and it doesn't need to.

Because we're not indulging the stupid assumption that a person who exercises more will automatically eat a less healthy diet. They won't. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that exercise helps to regulate appetite for many people. People who exercise will generally eat the same things they were eating anyway.

It's pretty reasonable to expect that a person who is walking as part of a daily commute will burn about 200 calories each day doing that. Over the course of a week, that comes to 1,400 extra calories burned. Over the course of a year, 73,000 calories. 73,000 calories is equivalent to about 20 pounds/9 kilograms of fat which a hypothetical sedentary person eating the same diet would have gained or maintained over that year. Small amounts of exercise add up over time.

And this is without factoring in other benefits. Exercise builds muscle, which requires energy to maintain and reduces the appearance of body fat. Exercise increases cardiovascular health and helps prevent the loss of bone density. Exercise has a positive impact on mental health and reduces daytime tiredness..

Dipping into your 401k to fix your car is not an actual money problem?
It seems like an extremely trivial one.

Not being able to afford an extra $5 on a Friday is not an actual money problem?
Again, it seems extremely trivial.

Both those instances are people with no housing costs having those money issues, how are they to own or rent if they are that bad with managing money?
Why does it matter? It sounds like they're mostly doing fine, and the problem is less about them not having enough money to live comfortably as with you disapproving of the comforts they choose to spend that money on.

There is no justice to the distribution of wealth in this society. Again, the reason the urban housing market is fucked is literally because some people have so much money they can afford to buy up all the houses and use their relative monopoly to let them out at hiked prices and earn even more money at everyone else's expense. Expecting people to conform their lives to that broken market in order to demonstrate their quality as a human being is the most dumb shit imaginable. The people succeeding in that market certainly aren't living the kind of austere, spartan existence you seem to believe leads to success.

If you're poor, be angry about it. If you're rich, be a selfish prick while you still can. Sitting in the middle and trying desperately to justify why everyone with less than you should get fucked is the worst of both worlds.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Here I'll say it to you to. Because apparently I just need to keep saying it

There are people like you described here

That does NOT mean everyone is like this

If you are buying a $720 phone, which is three quarters of the weekly pay packet of a minimum wage earner, might I suggest you are talking about young idiots who arent really that poor. They just haven't worked for a long time. I believe you'd call them millennials
Millennials aren't that young... And people don't really "buy" expensive phones they usually pay for them monthly so it doesn't seem like an expensive phone. Then, they can trade in said phone in 2-3 years and get a new phone for "free". Or they do get the phone for free if they sign up for some ridiculously high-priced plan that they don't need. What does like 99% of people even need out of a phone past say the $300 range?

No, it's not, which is why I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. In general, people who commit heavily to the idea that electric vehicles will solve climate change have either been suckered by tech bros or they are cynically looking for excuses to avoid the conclusion of needing to make more radical changes.

In order to "save the planet", there needs to be a rethinking of the way human living spaces are designed and laid out in order to reduce car dependence altogether. This means investing heavily in public transport. It means ending single use zoning. It means ensuring residential areas are pedestrian-accessible. It means enabling people to work-from-home more, and it means building large amounts of affordable subsidized housing (particularly in urban areas) so people can afford to live closer to where they work. We are a long, long way from this, but some urban governments even in the US are beginning to move in the right direction, and we can expect it to continue.

Electric vehicles cannot replace fossil fuel burning vehicles, and they won't for a long, long time. Maybe for certain forms of personal use if someone is willing to accept the limitations and if governments are willing to invest heavily in the green energy infrastructure to make them ecologically sustainable (which admittedly is another thing which needs to happen immanently in order to avoid disaster) but absolutely not for any kind of logistical use. For the time being, a certain amount of fossil fuel burning vehicle use is unavoidable. There is, however, a pretty urgent need to minimize that use.



So why live are you advocating for urban workers to move out of cities and commute in order to take advantage of lower house prices?



Why would you ever need to go to such a place unless you already live there? Do you want to get sacrificed to a malevolent corn spirit?



Are you sure?

Do you think there are no poor people living in Chicago or NYC? How are they managing it if your galaxy brained money-saving genius can't?



Cars are literally destroying the ecosystem of the planet we live in and degrading the living standards of future humanity. They render urban and suburban spaces dangerous and hostile for pedestrians and unsafe for children. They kill vast numbers of people each year. They create air pollution which leads to many people developing health problems. They're noisy and unsightly.

There are plenty of reasons to hate cars. I don't hate them though, they will always be useful and necessary for some people. I just think structuring your life (and on the social level, structuring your cities) in such a way that you are reliant on them to do anything is dumb and unnecessary



..and it doesn't need to.

Because we're not indulging the stupid assumption that a person who exercises more will automatically eat a less healthy diet. They won't. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that exercise helps to regulate appetite for many people. People who exercise will generally eat the same things they were eating anyway.

It's pretty reasonable to expect that a person who is walking as part of a daily commute will burn about 200 calories each day doing that. Over the course of a week, that comes to 1,400 extra calories burned. Over the course of a year, 73,000 calories. 73,000 calories is equivalent to about 20 pounds/9 kilograms of fat which a hypothetical sedentary person eating the same diet would have gained or maintained over that year. Small amounts of exercise add up over time.

And this is without factoring in other benefits. Exercise builds muscle, which requires energy to maintain and reduces the appearance of body fat. Exercise increases cardiovascular health and helps prevent the loss of bone density. Exercise has a positive impact on mental health and reduces daytime tiredness..



It seems like an extremely trivial one.



Again, it seems extremely trivial.



Why does it matter? It sounds like they're mostly doing fine, and the problem is less about them not having enough money to live comfortably as with you disapproving of the comforts they choose to spend that money on.

There is no justice to the distribution of wealth in this society. Again, the reason the urban housing market is fucked is literally because some people have so much money they can afford to buy up all the houses and use their relative monopoly to let them out at hiked prices and earn even more money at everyone else's expense. Expecting people to conform their lives to that broken market in order to demonstrate their quality as a human being is the most dumb shit imaginable. The people succeeding in that market certainly aren't living the kind of austere, spartan existence you seem to believe leads to success.

If you're poor, be angry about it. If you're rich, be a selfish prick while you still can. Sitting in the middle and trying desperately to justify why everyone with less than you should get fucked is the worst of both worlds.
Man, you really hate cars or that Not Just Bikes guy really got to you. Wait, are you the Not Just Bikes guy? Cars aren't a problem, the problem is finding a sustainable way to get electricity whether it's for powering cars, air conditioning, computers with power hungry GPUs/CPUs, etc. Nuclear is currently the best option but people think it's dangerous. Or perhaps there's a way to clean up the greenhouse gases in the air that we haven't invented yet, not that fossil fuels is sustainable even if we do invent that.

I didn't say to move out of cities and commute back into them everyday. I said I did that for about a year and a half and it was pretty horrible. There's plenty of work outside of the big city.

Where I go for work quite often, where I go on Monday nights, where I go on Friday nights, where I go on Saturday night; none of those places I can get to via public transport. Tons of great people I would've never met if I didn't have a car.

A friend that moved to Chicago and works here already had to get a 2nd job less than a year afterward because she couldn't afford living in Chicago on one job.

So walking to work burns away like one can of pop... That extra exercise isn't going to put that much of a dent into how bad the standard American diet is. Again, I'm not against exercise at all but it's not going to counter the standard American diet. I need to exercise more myself but I'm not blaming the suburbs for that. I've probably lost about 50 pounds over 8 months just changing my diet.

They are not doing fine. The friend who had to dip into his 401k to fix his car lives in an area where he hears gunshots every other night, his house that he got from his parents passing away is worth 60k (for a house!) according to Zillow however he doesn't have the money to fix it up to be sellable so he's probably going to get like at most 10k selling it to a contractor to fix it up to sell it themselves. The house is in such bad shape literally no one (not even his best friend of nearly 30 years) has ever been in his house. His laptop screen broke not that long ago and I gave him my old laptop I don't use anymore and he wanted to get pictures off the old one and I'm like you just need to connect it to a TV via HDMI to copy over the pictures. He finally did that when we went to Michigan with friends because he apparently doesn't have a TV that has HDMI. But yeah, he's doing fine and I'm only jealous of the comforts he has... And, again, he makes more than me. I don't know why you all think I'm trying to pull shit over on you, I post as genuine as possible.

I realize the system isn't great but there's still plenty you can do yourself to improve your situation. Ignoring that and only being mad at the system is the way you stay in the same situation you're currently in. You have control over lots of things but you keep focusing on the things you don't have control over like cars, you're so very passionate about these cars. I don't feel bad about driving a car because it's literally not my fault that we're still using old tech that's not good for the environment, that's not something I can control, but I can control what I eat or the stuff I buy and don't buy. I do what I personally can for helping the big picture stuff I have very little control over; if only everyone did that, we'd be in a better place.