Discuss and Rate the Last Film You Watched

[Casual Shinji]

Again, that doesn't tell me if they turned a profit. Avatar is like their only big recent hit and that didn't make nearly as much as you'd think, according to Cameron the movie needed to do $2 billion to turn a profit.

Guardians 3 and Wakanda Forever were also big hits, and Avatar 2 did make 2 billion.

 

[Bartholen]

Starship Troopers, 6/10

I'm kind of torn on this movie. I guess I'm left conflicted about how seriously I'm supposed to take it. I know the intent is satire, but 1. I feel a bit too much of it is played straight, and 2. its impact as satire has definitely been blunted since we've seen an actual fascist militarist superpower go to war over the last year.

There are definitely parts of this movie that work as satire. The ad inserts have that Robocop-style over the top-ness. The clinical, almost action figure-like design of the military contrasted with the horrifically graphic violence definitely drives the point home. And the way Rico loses more and more of his individuality over the course of the film, until he's left as a mere hollow copy of the men who came before him demonstrates the dehumanizing nature of the state the world exists in. But those elements are then contrasted by other elements played more straight, and end up muddling the message:

• The military is depicted as quite functional and competent, with leaders even acknowledging failure. We know now that this just doesn't happen
• Some of the military heroics come across more as sincere than ironic, with Rico forming a genuine bond with his mates and high-ranking officers giving him genuine respect
• The bugs are shown to be a genuine threat to humanity when they wipe out Buenos Aires, raising the question of "well what are they supposed to do?"

Being a product of multiple times (a book from the 1950s adapted in the 1990s) I guess some kind of loss in translation was inevitable. But I just don't feel this film has the impact it should. It doesn't really give a sense that Rico has truly lost, or that his friends have truly changed. Ironically enough for a film that's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, perhaps the satire should have been less subtle, considering how often misunderstood this film is.

On the technical side it's really well done. The computer effects hold up amazingly for 1997, the practical effects are great, there's a clear vision to this sterile military aesthetic.

 

[Absent]

Starship Troopers, 6/10

I'm kind of torn on this movie. I guess I'm left conflicted about how seriously I'm supposed to take it. I know the intent is satire, but 1. I feel a bit too much of it is played straight, and 2. its impact as satire has definitely been blunted since we've seen an actual fascist militarist superpower go to war over the last year.

There are definitely parts of this movie that work as satire. The ad inserts have that Robocop-style over the top-ness. The clinical, almost action figure-like design of the military contrasted with the horrifically graphic violence definitely drives the point home. And the way Rico loses more and more of his individuality over the course of the film, until he's left as a mere hollow copy of the men who came before him demonstrates the dehumanizing nature of the state the world exists in. But those elements are then contrasted by other elements played more straight, and end up muddling the message:

• The military is depicted as quite functional and competent, with leaders even acknowledging failure. We know now that this just doesn't happen
• Some of the military heroics come across more as sincere than ironic, with Rico forming a genuine bond with his mates and high-ranking officers giving him genuine respect
• The bugs are shown to be a genuine threat to humanity when they wipe out Buenos Aires, raising the question of "well what are they supposed to do?"

Being a product of multiple times (a book from the 1950s adapted in the 1990s) I guess some kind of loss in translation was inevitable. But I just don't feel this film has the impact it should. It doesn't really give a sense that Rico has truly lost, or that his friends have truly changed. Ironically enough for a film that's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, perhaps the satire should have been less subtle, considering how often misunderstood this film is.

On the technical side it's really well done. The computer effects hold up amazingly for 1997, the practical effects are great, there's a clear vision to this sterile military aesthetic.

It's a film that's enjoyable on two levels, the same have-cake-and-eat-it-too as WH40k, as you revel in fascist tropes with self-conscious ironic distanciation (it's a thrill, but with the awareness that such thrills are thrills for all the wrong reasons). If you like patriotic war movies, it's a good one, but that doesn't hide its manipulative nature. Makes it more innocuous (except for the scarface/wallstreet effect depending on spectators, so of course within realistic limits).

It's a movie which existence amuses me. But still, I don't find it very enjoyable, because the material it pastiches doesn't appeal to me. And it's not a zucker-abraham-zucker parody. It's mostly played straight with winks of self-awareness. In a way, it's like the Waititi Marvel movies, doing the thing for real but with some "haha, movies, right?" undercutting here and there (and also there and over there and in here too). Verhoeven adds some "haha, fascism, right?", it's nice but it doesn't completely overturn the experience. There are long stretches where the joke is simply the movies' genre and, well, the fact it works. And these stretches tend to bore me. I'm more patient with their equivalent, in, say, self-aware horror movies or self-aware spy flicks.

But for details, the Buenos Aires thing is implicitely presented as an effect of Earth's colonialism (more 9/11 before 9/11 than Pearl Harbour after Pearl Harbour), with the "well what are they supposed to do?" subtly asked of the space insects. And the loss in translation from the book is apparently pretty welcome.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Starship Troopers, 6/10

I'm kind of torn on this movie. I guess I'm left conflicted about how seriously I'm supposed to take it. I know the intent is satire, but 1. I feel a bit too much of it is played straight, and 2. its impact as satire has definitely been blunted since we've seen an actual fascist militarist superpower go to war over the last year.

There are definitely parts of this movie that work as satire. The ad inserts have that Robocop-style over the top-ness. The clinical, almost action figure-like design of the military contrasted with the horrifically graphic violence definitely drives the point home. And the way Rico loses more and more of his individuality over the course of the film, until he's left as a mere hollow copy of the men who came before him demonstrates the dehumanizing nature of the state the world exists in. But those elements are then contrasted by other elements played more straight, and end up muddling the message:

• The military is depicted as quite functional and competent, with leaders even acknowledging failure. We know now that this just doesn't happen
• Some of the military heroics come across more as sincere than ironic, with Rico forming a genuine bond with his mates and high-ranking officers giving him genuine respect
• The bugs are shown to be a genuine threat to humanity when they wipe out Buenos Aires, raising the question of "well what are they supposed to do?"

Being a product of multiple times (a book from the 1950s adapted in the 1990s) I guess some kind of loss in translation was inevitable. But I just don't feel this film has the impact it should. It doesn't really give a sense that Rico has truly lost, or that his friends have truly changed. Ironically enough for a film that's about as subtle as a sledgehammer, perhaps the satire should have been less subtle, considering how often misunderstood this film is.

On the technical side it's really well done. The computer effects hold up amazingly for 1997, the practical effects are great, there's a clear vision to this sterile military aesthetic.

I regards to the destruction of Buenes Aires, it being a meteor I'd say questions how much of a direct attack this actually was. The result was catastrophic, but it was just a meteor, not a missle or a nuke. The fact that Earth sees this is a direct attack, which was likely just a random meteor knocked out of orbit, and are so willing to immediately want to wipe the Bugs out, when the only other interaction has been humans trying to establish colonies on their planet, speaks more to how this militaristic society sees itself as the centre of everything, and that any bad thing that happens to them must therefor be due to malicious intent.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You don't cease getting older simply because you cease to live. Age, technically, is the number of years since one's birth. Fanatic pro-lifers might argue our birthdays should be 9-months prior to what our birth certificates say....

... Holy shit, I just calculated 9 months prior to my birthday, and it's my hire date at my job of 14 years, AND the release date of INSIDE, my favorite videogame. What the actual fuck, universe?

Ah, but what if Roger Moore's body was in a spaceship and travelling at light speed?

 

[Xprimentyl]

Ah, but what if Roger Moore's body was in a spaceship and travelling at light speed?

Then his age would be the least interesting question to ponder in such a scenario.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

You don't cease getting older simply because you cease to live. Age, technically, is the number of years since one's birth. Fanatic pro-lifers might argue our birthdays should be 9-months prior to what our birth certificates say....

... Holy shit, I just calculated 9 months prior to my birthday, and it's my hire date at my job of 14 years, AND the release date of INSIDE, my favorite videogame. What the actual fuck, universe?

Wait is that guy in the gif the same guy as this dude who's been sneakily popping in to my recommends lately?

 

[Xprimentyl]

Wait is that guy in the gif the same guy as this dude who's been sneakily popping in to my recommends lately?

I've no idea who either of those guys are much less if they're the same person.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Then his age would be the least interesting question to ponder in such a scenario.

You have a point there.

 

[Bartholen]

Children of Men, 8/10

This is one of those hard to rate movies, because I can't really think of anything wrong with it. The production values are insane, the acting is great, the atmosphere's palpable and on a technical level it's fucking marvelous. But it's so unrelentingly bleak and grim that I can't really rate it any higher in terms of enjoyment. If anything, the film's even more timely and uncomfortable to watch in a post-Brexit, post-Covid, microplastic-ridden world.

Some have said The Last of Us ripped this off, and I can certainly see the inspiration in places. But the dynamics are still decidedly different: TLoU is firmly post-apocalyptic, while Children of Men is only on its way there. It's certainly not subtle about its messiah allegory: when Clive Owen's character was exclaiming "Jesus Christ" out loud, in a barn, to a heavily pregnant young woman, I started giggling, likely for the right reasons. Everyone always talks up the car one-take in this movie, but there's even more impressive long takes that I can't even begin to grasp what a nightmare they must have been to coordinate. One thing I was left wondering was if there was some hidden meaning to Theo's footwear (or lack thereof) in the film. When he leaves the farm, beginning his messianic quest, he's wearing only socks. Then he gets flip flops from Jasper, and finally proper shoes at Bexhill. I don't know if there's some biblical subtext to it, but it feels a bit too purposeful to have just been a running gag.

 

[Hawki]

• The military is depicted as quite functional and competent, with leaders even acknowledging failure. We know now that this just doesn't happen
• Some of the military heroics come across more as sincere than ironic, with Rico forming a genuine bond with his mates and high-ranking officers giving him genuine respect
• The bugs are shown to be a genuine threat to humanity when they wipe out Buenos Aires, raising the question of "well what are they supposed to do?"

Responding to some of the points here:

-I don't know if "competent" is the word I'd use to describe the Federation's military in this film. First Klendathu is a FUBAR. They have other victories, but even discounting that the "victory" at the end of film 1 is revealed to be nothing of the sort in Marauder, are they competent? The Mobile Infantry seems to be composed of nothing but infantry, with no armour or artillery to support them. Their armour is grossly ineffective against the Arachnids, their weapons aren't much better.

-On the subject of acknowledging failures, that's technically true, but there's a case to be made that the events of the first film are taking place as in-universe propaganda. As in, the events are literally true, but it's presented as a propo piece (see the start and end). In that context, viewing it in this sense, the Federation can acknowledge a defeat, as long as that defeat leads to the climax of a victory (capture of the brain bug). Also, this is kind of fanwank, but if you look at the five ST films, the Federation gets more dictorial as time goes on, so while we know the Federation was pretty corrupt before the First Bug War (see the prequel comics), the Federation's relative openness here can be excused in the context of how deceptive things get. Even by ST2, the Federation is outright lying to its citizens.

-"The Federation is a fascist empire. The Bugs are an existential threat to humanity." These aren't mutually exclusive statements.

I think you make a fair point, but again, without delving into events prior to the film, even in the film's context by itself, there's a wink-nudge element towards the Bugs' strike. We're told that "Mormon extremists" (what?) tried to settle an Arachnid-controlled world, and we see the students cut open Arachnid bodies in science classes, so clearly they got those bodies from somewhere. While there's a happy middle ground between "let the humans roll over us" and "let's wipe out the human race," the implication, if one chooses to see it, is that the Bugs are reacting to human aggression.

I regards to the destruction of Buenes Aires, it being a meteor I'd say questions how much of a direct attack this actually was. The result was catastrophic, but it was just a meteor, not a missle or a nuke. The fact that Earth sees this is a direct attack, which was likely just a random meteor knocked out of orbit, and are so willing to immediately want to wipe the Bugs out, when the only other interaction has been humans trying to establish colonies on their planet, speaks more to how this militaristic society sees itself as the centre of everything, and that any bad thing that happens to them must therefor be due to malicious intent.

A meteor would be, on average, much more devastating than a nuke, given its size. A 7 mile wide meteor caused the KT extinction - even reducing that mass by a few miles would still inflict catastrophic damage. There's a reason why mass-driver weapons are portrayed as so devasting in sci-fi for instance, because the laws of physics demonstrate that they would be.

However, it's pretty certain that the meteor was indeed fired by the Arachnids. People have long speculated it's a false flag, but that really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Even entirely within the film's context and nothing else, it's established as soon as the meteor misses the ship that it came out of the AQZ. So unless Zander and/or the captain are in on a false flag op (and there's nothing to suggest they are), it's pretty certain that in this case, the Bug attack is genuine.

 

[Thaluikhain]

A meteor would be, on average, much more devastating than a nuke, given its size. A 7 mile wide meteor caused the KT extinction - even reducing that mass by a few miles would still inflict catastrophic damage. There's a reason why mass-driver weapons are portrayed as so devasting in sci-fi for instance, because the laws of physics demonstrate that they would be.

While that is true that big meteors are right nasty, "on average" there's loads more tiny meteors than big ones. The Earth is constantly bombarded by ones that burn up before reaching the ground.

However, it's pretty certain that the meteor was indeed fired by the Arachnids. People have long speculated it's a false flag, but that really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Even entirely within the film's context and nothing else, it's established as soon as the meteor misses the ship that it came out of the AQZ. So unless Zander and/or the captain are in on a false flag op (and there's nothing to suggest they are), it's pretty certain that in this case, the Bug attack is genuine.

If the meteor came from Arachnid space, it'd take millennia to reach Earth. Unless it was traveling at the sort of speed you could conveniently measure in fractions of the speed of light, in which case it'd just take many years, and would pose a massive threat to the colonies on Mars when it hit the Earth.

Ok, sure, you can just ignore relativistic effects. But then you start having to throw certain aspects of logic and science out and that doesn't help a discussion unless everyone agrees on what else is being ignored.

 

[Casual Shinji]

A meteor would be, on average, much more devastating than a nuke, given its size. A 7 mile wide meteor caused the KT extinction - even reducing that mass by a few miles would still inflict catastrophic damage. There's a reason why mass-driver weapons are portrayed as so devasting in sci-fi for instance, because the laws of physics demonstrate that they would be.

However, it's pretty certain that the meteor was indeed fired by the Arachnids. People have long speculated it's a false flag, but that really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Even entirely within the film's context and nothing else, it's established as soon as the meteor misses the ship that it came out of the AQZ. So unless Zander and/or the captain are in on a false flag op (and there's nothing to suggest they are), it's pretty certain that in this case, the Bug attack is genuine.

It's not about destructive capabilities - meteors obviously beat nukes if large enough - it's that meteors aren't weapons built for destruction, they're just space rocks. A nuke or missle can obviously be traced back to someone who purposely launced it, a meteor can't. The meteor was possibly knocked out of orbit by a bug shooting it's spore stuff into space, but whether this was done purposefully to attack Earth is very questionable. This means the bugs would be able to calculate its trajectory over lightyears to hit Earth, which even with a brain bug seems very unlikely.

Earth in Starship Troopers is a paranoid, militaristic dictorship, where even the Moon has a giant ring lined with cannons for a threat that doesn't even appear to have ever reached it. The only other time we see a threat to Earth it's another meteor, which the Network claims came from the bugs, but which is probably the military automatically assuming them to be the threat. When in all likelihood it's just a meteor on collision course with Earth, or even more likely just Network propaganda meant to show how those expensive Moon cannons are totally keeping humanity safe.

 

[Absent]

If the meteor came from Arachnid space, it'd take millennia to reach Earth.

Yeah, I... don't really expect such logic to apply in sci-fi movies.

 

[Hawki]

While that is true that big meteors are right nasty, "on average" there's loads more tiny meteors than big ones. The Earth is constantly bombarded by ones that burn up before reaching the ground.

Yes, I know. What's your point? The Bug meteor is clearly larger than the Sol system's average bolide.

If the meteor came from Arachnid space, it'd take millennia to reach Earth. Unless it was traveling at the sort of speed you could conveniently measure in fractions of the speed of light, in which case it'd just take many years, and would pose a massive threat to the colonies on Mars when it hit the Earth.

Ok, sure, you can just ignore relativistic effects. But then you start having to throw certain aspects of logic and science out and that doesn't help a discussion unless everyone agrees on what else is being ignored.

Well first, the film universe explicitly circumvents relativity via the Federation's C-drive/warp technology. Second, yes, you're absolutely right about the travel time for a meteor, unless there's some means of getting it to obtain super-luminal speed, which the Bugs are presumably able to do. It's mentioned that "Bug plasma" is what sends it out of the AQZ, so presumably (I checked the wiki, couldn't find a detailed explanation) the meteors travel at FTL speeds before entering relativistic speeds within the target system.

Earth in Starship Troopers is a paranoid, militaristic dictorship, where even the Moon has a giant ring lined with cannons for a threat that doesn't even appear to have ever reached it. The only other time we see a threat to Earth it's another meteor, which the Network claims came from the bugs, but which is probably the military automatically assuming them to be the threat. When in all likelihood it's just a meteor on collision course with Earth, or even more likely just Network propaganda meant to show how those expensive Moon cannons are totally keeping humanity safe.

The problem with your theory however, even ignoring every other piece of ST media, is that the meteor coming from the AQZ is established as soon as the meteor hits the Roger Young. I actually checked the film script to be sure, and sure enough:

Deladier: Where'd it [the meteor] come from?
Zander: It came out of the Arachnid Quarantine Zone, ma'am.
Deladier: Number Four, contact Fleet. Tell 'em there's a loose asteroid headed their way.

For the false flag theory to be true, at the very least, Zander would have to be on a conspiracy. He'd have to know ahead of time that the Federation was planning a false flag op. Problem is, there's nothing to suggest that. He's a mere lieutenant, and the only reason the RY was in the area was because Carmen plotted a different course. So the entire theory rests on a string of coincidences - the idea that Zander already knows ahead of time that a false flag op is underway, but is only there to "confirm" that the meteor came out of the AQZ because Carmen went against his pre-approved navs.

I like the idea of the false flag theory, but even the film itself shoots it down.

Yeah, I... don't really expect such logic to apply in sci-fi movies.

The film(s) explicitly get around the lightspeed barrier with the C-drive, so we can assume that the laws of relativity apply to the Arachnids also. And clearly they have a means of FTL travel, otherwise they wouldn't be able to push so far out of the AQZ in so short a period of time.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Jurassic World Dominion

A dumb and pointless movie. It's incredible that 30 years ago the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park looked more realistic than the dinosaurs here. You can really tell that the actors are running around dodging and touching nothing all the time.

I get why this exists, it's a big spectacle movie and people like those but the plot of this movie is just such a bunch of drivel it makes the previous 2 look like works of art. The writers couldn't think of anything interesting about dinosaurs invading civilization.

2/5

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Speaking as a native from Buenos Aires, bugs are welcome to raze it whenever they find the time. Fuck BA and most of the people in it.

Anyway

Vengeance (8/10)

Solid debut for B.J. Novak, aka Ryan from The Office. As an actor he's pretty limited but he basically writes towards his strengths: being an insufferable, pretentious hipster. He's a podcaster from NY who shows up to some chick's funeral in Texas (he barely remembers her but her family is convinced he was her bf), then decides to stick around to cash in on the story and turn it into a true crime podcast. So he starts snooping and the plot thickens as it starts entertaining the OD as murder.

There's some city slicker humor in B.J.'s interactions with the locals, and the writing is pretty clever, but the movie doesn't exactly basque in comedy. It ends up being what I'm fixing to christen one of them "coming of age stories but for emotionally stunted adults", like with The Kid Detective. Less about maturing, more about embracing disappointment. I liked it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

The problem with your theory however, even ignoring every other piece of ST media, is that the meteor coming from the AQZ is established as soon as the meteor hits the Roger Young. I actually checked the film script to be sure, and sure enough:

Deladier: Where'd it [the meteor] come from?
Zander: It came out of the Arachnid Quarantine Zone, ma'am.
Deladier: Number Four, contact Fleet. Tell 'em there's a loose asteroid headed their way.

For the false flag theory to be true, at the very least, Zander would have to be on a conspiracy. He'd have to know ahead of time that the Federation was planning a false flag op. Problem is, there's nothing to suggest that. He's a mere lieutenant, and the only reason the RY was in the area was because Carmen plotted a different course. So the entire theory rests on a string of coincidences - the idea that Zander already knows ahead of time that a false flag op is underway, but is only there to "confirm" that the meteor came out of the AQZ because Carmen went against his pre-approved navs.

I like the idea of the false flag theory, but even the film itself shoots it down.

None of that indicates intent though. It came from the Arachnid zone and that's about it.

It's not a false flag necessarily, because that would imply the Federation would feel the need to hide the truth from the public. But in their eyes the Bugs being evil and bent on humanity's destruction is the truth. And the public is already so far gone that they are at the Federation's beck and call without question. Everyone has been raised to view the Bugs through a lense of 'they're evil and they're out to get us', so a stray meteor from the Arachnid zone that hits Earth is instantly declared an act of war.

It's a theory, sure, but the movie itself feels designed to make you theorize on how this society actually runs, since none of the characters are a reliable source and the narrator is a fake trailer voice. The movie itself could be seen as a government sanctioned propaganda film from a future world that has a failed military society on the brink of collapse, meant to inspire the public to still buy into the system.

The fun of the movie is the many ways to try and cut through its face value.

 

[gorfias]

Speaking as a native from Buenos Aires, bugs are welcome to raze it whenever they find the time. Fuck BA and most of the people in it.

Anyway

Vengeance (8/10)

Solid debut for B.J. Novak, aka Ryan from The Office. As an actor he's pretty limited but he basically writes towards his strengths: being an insufferable, pretentious hipster. He's a podcaster from NY who shows up to some chick's funeral in Texas (he barely remembers her but her family is convinced he was her bf), then decides to stick around to cash in on the story and turn it into a true crime podcast. So he starts snooping and the plot thickens as it starts entertaining the OD as murder.

There's some city slicker humor in B.J.'s interactions with the locals, and the writing is pretty clever, but the movie doesn't exactly basque in comedy. It ends up being what I'm fixing to christen one of them "coming of age stories but for emotionally stunted adults", like with The Kid Detective. Less about maturing, more about embracing disappointment. I liked it.

100%

 

[Hawki]

None of that indicates intent though. It came from the Arachnid zone and that's about it.

The AQZ is on the other side of the galaxy. Your premise requires the idea that the Bugs just happen to propel an asteroid at FTL speeds, that just happens to hit Earth, despite the fact that by this point in time, hostile first contact has been made over 30 years ago.

It's not a false flag necessarily, because that would imply the Federation would feel the need to hide the truth from the public. But in their eyes the Bugs being evil and bent on humanity's destruction is the truth. And the public is already so far gone that they are at the Federation's beck and call without question. Everyone has been raised to view the Bugs through a lense of 'they're evil and they're out to get us', so a stray meteor from the Arachnid zone that hits Earth is instantly declared an act of war.

Um, yes? That's arguably true. It's part of why the false flag theory holds less water than it might otherwise, considering that the Federation is already anti-Arachnid.

It's a theory, sure, but the movie itself feels designed to make you theorize on how this society actually runs, since none of the characters are a reliable source and the narrator is a fake trailer voice. The movie itself could be seen as a government sanctioned propaganda film from a future world that has a failed military society on the brink of collapse, meant to inspire the public to still buy into the system.

The fun of the movie is the many ways to try and cut through its face value.

Yes, but theories generally require something to base themselves off. For instance, using this example, I think a strong case can be made that the film is, in of itself, an in-universe propaganda piece, given the voiceover, news clips, and everything else that's used to present the Federation in a positive light. The false flag thing though is contradicted by the film. Or, to use another example, I can certainly theorize that the Skinnies exist in the film universe, but as far as I'm aware, there's nothing to back that theory up.