Look, Haaretz isn't exactly pro-Palestinian or anything, but let's not be getting our news from outrage mongers, career politicians, drama YouTubers, and Tucker fucking Carlson, okay?
Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates
- Thread starter dreng3
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Look, Haaretz isn't exactly pro-Palestinian or anything, but let's not be getting our news from outrage mongers, career politicians, drama YouTubers, and Tucker fucking Carlson, okay?
While the WSJ claimed thet Iran is heavily involved in the planning of the attack, the White House has denied that based on current intelligence. It will probably be some time until we get the full picture, given how much of a surprise that whole affair was, but it would probably be better to discuss this as a Hamas action primarily, not an Iranian one.
Of course there are a lot of people out there who want Iran to be behind it because Iran has significantly less justification for killing Israelis and it is easier to ignore Palestinians and their grievances if they are only Iranian puppets. Also it retroactively justifies all the primarily US-based abuse Iran had to suffer in the last couple of years.
Not that there is any lack for reasons to criticize Iran with all the internal suppression and the drone supply for Russia.
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Hamas did win the last PA election but "voted" is a strong word for how they got into undisputed power in Gaza, which involved a small war with Fatah.
As of yesterday morning, 44 Israeli soldiers had been killed according to Israeli sources. It is of course very possible the IDF has provided an underestimate.
There are at least three possible outcomes to the Hamas-Israel war. They all play in Iran's favour
The Palestinian gunmen who launched deadly attacks on Israel are not Iranian puppets — but they are doing the work Iran wants done, writes Aaron Pilkington.
www.abc.net.au
He had a good point about warmongers wanting to bomb Iran which is in the mist of a social revolution against the ayatollahs. I still refuse to vote republican. Broken clocks sometimes works.
An interesting perspective, and a debate with views that I don't necessarily share.
That said what needs to happen is the Israelis have to kill around the exact number of people that Hamas is estimated to kill, and then immediately cease hostilities, resume electricity, gas, water, and etc. we all talk about an eye for an eye makes the world blind, but I do support a proportional response, I may be to the right of many people here, but I am to the left of mainstream US media, US government and I would argue even the EU.
No, I don't support killing innocents on either side, but when you bomb entire apartment blocks some people will die that aren't able-bodied adults who can fight wars.
Israel's rage right now is still high, and I hope they don't mirror the US response to 9/11 where they straight up killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians in an anti-terror war and a large number of Afghan civilians, or the Chinese response to the Mongolian invasions in the far past where China just depopulated the Mongolian Steppes.
I would argue as of recent times Israel was making progress on Palestinian rights, but only slowly. They were trying to get rid of Bibi/Netanyahu in the protests for being right-wing and autocratic, and if they succeeded the moderates would have come into power which would have indirectly benefited the Palestinians regardless of their intentions of whether they wanted to help Gaza, and the West Bank or not. Which would be a good thing.
Do they have to wait until the Palestinians have killed more Israelis than Israeli's have killed Palestinians over the last few years?
The Israeli public right now is furious and wants their pound of flesh and blood after the shocking images of rape, killings and hostage takings. That is the political reality on the ground.
I am guessing and I don’t know you but you and I are living in a bubble like everyone else you don’t see and hear the the constant air raid sirens, and having family members die in bus bombings just like the Israelis have. Just like the Israelis don’t see the deaths of Gazans and West Bankers who die from Israeli police action, settlers and bombers.
Frankly it will be a miracle if they do what I hope for given the Israeli anger around the massacre that took place across Souther Israel. They are very likely going to double or triple the amount of deaths that Hamas has taken from them, and extend the blockade of food, water, and electricity plus naval blockade of goods indefinitely which would be worse.
This sounds iffy on paper and in practice it's dumb as hell. A better idea is to kill every single militant that raises arms against the people doing the killing (the Israeli army in this case). And do it again and again until nobody is left. I doubt that's the best idea either, but a proportional response is worse. It's not a total war where you put more and more people into the grinder.
If you tried to do a ground invasion you will kill allot more that 1500-2000 Gazans civilians. Due to the area being densely populated, and most of Gaza being kids and not old enough to fight teenagers. And the anger likely extends to the IDF as well and they are your main ground troops.
I am a military veteran. I would not consider myself to be a combatant. EDIT: Technically, the term "combatant" applies. Eligibility for the draft is not it.
As a Vet, I can be called back to duty very simply. But I am in no way a part of the military at this time. I have no uniform nor side arms. I am not actively engaged in hostilities.
Very easy to make distinctions between combatants and civilians.
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I have seen so much anti-Semitism and islamophobia on Twitter, it's insane. It already makes trying to find out what the fucking going on so much more hard and even more depressing than it already is.
If you are curious about my position: I do not think what Hamas did was right, but at the same time Israel counter offensive is completely inhumane.
If you are curious about my position: I do not think what Hamas did was right, but at the same time Israel counter offensive is completely inhumane.
Further rocket attacks on cities including Ashkelon, from within Lebanon. Death toll stands at ~800 in Palestine and ~1,000 in Israel.
Something bizarre: Both Netanyahu and an IDF spokesman (Richard Hecht) advised Palestinians to "leave immediately" and "get out", with the PM then saying that the military would attack every part of Gaza. Except... all major crossings remain blockaded by Israel. The Israeli military even had to clarify that the crossing Hecht advised people to take actually isn't open.
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www.reuters.com
Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
Something bizarre: Both Netanyahu and an IDF spokesman (Richard Hecht) advised Palestinians to "leave immediately" and "get out", with the PM then saying that the military would attack every part of Gaza. Except... all major crossings remain blockaded by Israel. The Israeli military even had to clarify that the crossing Hecht advised people to take actually isn't open.
Israeli military revises call on Gazans to flee to Egypt
The Israeli military revised on Tuesday a recommendation by one of its spokespeople that Palestinians fleeing its air strikes in the Gaza Strip head to Egypt, saying in a follow-up statement that the main crossing on that border was currently closed.
www.reuters.com
Are they just fucking ignorant of their own tactics? How can you be moronic enough to instruct people to leave and then block their exit?
And you're full of shit . We've already have this discussion before response more or less the same. It does nothing but cause more symptoms of senseless bloodshed, no matter the "appropriate response". I'll just be another form of vengeance disguising itself as something else. The cycle of vengeance in just another form.
I agree, which is why shit like that should not happen in the first place. Don't bother with any justifications or excuses, I'm not hearing it.
Agreed. Don't try to fall for any disinformation or wild claims without proof. There's a reason why I had posted that article earlier.
Your calling me full of shit but most normal people support Israel air strikes or worst on this issue as of right now. Even Biden didn’t push back on an invasion of Gaza. Not everyone is college educated leftist or a protester. I am offering a template of a proposal for an off ramp from more death. Doing nothing is not a political option for either Israel or the US hence the air strikes, the Ford CSG.
Grow up