Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

Thaluikhain

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Repression is quietly using the n-word in your head, and after a few too many drinks using it out loud. Repression is not seeing random acts of violence on the other side of the globe, and deciding you need to stab a 6 year old boy because of it.
I am led to believe that, after the Indian head of state was assassinated by their Sikh bodyguards, Sikhs in India who'd been on good terms with their neighbours for many years got attacked by them.

And, this account is of one person. Part of a trend, sure, but only one we know of to fit that mould.
 

SilentPony

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I am led to believe that, after the Indian head of state was assassinated by their Sikh bodyguards, Sikhs in India who'd been on good terms with their neighbours for many years got attacked by them.

And, this account is of one person. Part of a trend, sure, but only one we know of to fit that mould.
But they were all Indians, in India, with generations of racial and ethnic tensions below the surface. Its not like Sikhs saw some gang violence in Chicago and decided fuck it, that's the last straw, lets murder our Indian neighbors.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Fearmongering for one. Look see, no Jew can be trusted. All Palestinians, no matter where they live, are in danger. Its the Jews. Its the Jews.
Okay but, like, a child was stabbed to death. And you think the parent's first thought was to make shit up about the landlord?

That doesn't really scan
 

SilentPony

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Okay but, like, a child was stabbed to death. And you think the parent's first thought was to make shit up about the landlord?

That doesn't really scan
Maybe not. Im just saying the official story of going from a sweet old man who viewed a little boy as a son and built him a tree house all the way to a psychotic murderer who wants to cleanse the world of Muslims feels like we're missing a few steps. I just don't believe there were no signs and this was completely out of the blue.
 

Seanchaidh

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The actual equivalent would be if you wrote an article on the breakup of Yugoslavia, and called it a non-partisan take, and then the entire article was devoted to how bad one state was and paid no attention to the other.
"Non-partisan" is often used to describe things like that, to be fair. It is an extraordinary brand.

Maybe not. Im just saying the official story of going from a sweet old man who viewed a little boy as a son and built him a tree house all the way to a psychotic murderer who wants to cleanse the world of Muslims feels like we're missing a few steps. I just don't believe there were no signs and this was completely out of the blue.
The steps missing involve listening to Israeli propaganda against Palestinians delivered by a media complex that is priming Western audiences to accept genocide in Gaza.
 
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SilentPony

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The steps missing involve listening to Israeli propaganda against Palestinians delivered by a media complex that is priming Western audiences to accept genocide in Gaza.
Again, missing steps. Propaganda only works if you're already partly in the boat. You don't go from a sweet, loving, tolerant old man with an surrogate grandchild to BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD without serious steps in between, just because you listened to a few hours of talk radio. I'm just saying there is more to this story. If Israeli propaganda is so good its basically psychic brainwashing, we're all in a lot of trouble.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Again, missing steps. Propaganda only works if you're already partly in the boat. You don't go from a sweet, loving, tolerant old man with an surrogate grandchild to BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD without serious steps in between, just because you listened to a few hours of talk radio. I'm just saying there is more to this story. If Israeli propaganda is so good its basically psychic brainwashing, we're all in a lot of trouble.
Man, they aren't gonna know the guy's brain. They just said he seemed nice and the kid liked him. It's every "he seemed so nice (for a serial killer)" story

Lotta people died on Oct 7th. Kind of a seismic shift and we've seen it before

EDIT: Plus, like, I know that "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" is a joke around here, but the dude could've very well been prejudiced as shit against brown people in the middle east, except this family "was one of the good ones, why can't the rest be like you?"
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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I mean, *if* a rocket misfired and squirreled it's way into an ammunition dump and maybe a gas main or some oxygen tanks, maybe

On the other hand, when has the IDF ever been skittish about hitting civilian targets that they say Hamas is hiding in?

Honestly, I think it's because it was Anglican and killed *way* more people than they're used to
 
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Hawki

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Obviously there's anti-Semitism on/in the grassroots left, as there is in every political demographic.

Here's the return question. Is there a difference between the following two statements in your view?
"There is misogyny among the right wing";
"The right wing is misogynist".
Of course there's a difference, but this is a massive red herring. But to go by that step by step:

-There's a difference between the two statements.

-I noticed you said "right wing" not "far right," which would be the better equivalent to what was actually being discussed (and I would say the far right is mysogonist, among numerous other things)

-If I did say the far right is X, would you be going down the same path of "not all X?", or is it just when it affects you personally?

-Going down the same path is still a waste of time, since the article itself says "not all X."

Absolutely hilarious. It's "asinine" to dispute something patently false if it happens to link to something else that's true? We just have to let it by? No, nuts to that. You make a false claim, expect it to be disputed.
Right. You've disputed the so-called false claim, and ignored the claim it was actually making.

For the umpteenth time, I'm not "outraged that the article says anything negative about the left". And the specific article I'm criticising for one-sidedness does not contain anything devoted to the other side. Engage with my actual position; don't twist it into something I don't recognise and then react to that.
I have been engaging with your position, it's all over the place. You seem to simultaniously be talking about the Substack and Medium articles. So as to both:

-I cannot say anything else about the Medium article at this point, your entire position seems to be that entire segments of it don't exist

-If you're talking about the Substack article, again, see the idea of false balance. I don't buy the argument you're making in that:

1: The actual instances that were described don't have an equivalent on the far right at this point in time.

2: That's not how this works. I've already listed out why this doesn't work, so I'll give the abbreviated version. If I'm covering Problem A, I am not obliged to cover Problem B. If I am writing an article on why fascism is terrible, it's not an argument to say "what about communism?" In I'm writing about the alt-right, I am not obliged to cover the far-left (woke left/illiberal left/whatever). And actually be honest with yourself - if the far-right was the subject of the article, would you be asking for balance? I suspect not, because a) they're not your 'team,' and b) most of the time the far-right is the bigger issue.

3: You might have a claim for bias if there were a series of articles focusing on one particular thing and ignoring the equivalent (top of my head, Al Jazeera regularly covers Muslim persecution in India, but has nothing to say how non-Muslims are treated in Pakistan), but this wasn't a series of articles, it was one single article. And most of your response to it has been 'but what about the right?"

Poisoning the well. I never, ever condoned burning embassies. You lied.
First, I said equivocated. Second:


This is your first post on the subject. I had to go back and find where it started, and it's certainly distressing to see how many people equivocated on what should have been a simple matter, but alas, that's the world we live in.
 

Silvanus

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-I noticed you said "right wing" not "far right," which would be the better equivalent to what was actually being discussed
Not really, because the statement concerned the "grassroots left". A bit later you used that term interchangeably with "far left". But "grassroots left" includes the broad base of support for moderate leftists.

-If I did say the far right is X, would you be going down the same path of "not all X?", or is it just when it affects you personally?
I might quibble, but I wouldn't care as much, no. What, you're surprised people take accusations to heart if they're the target of them?

Right. You've disputed the so-called false claim, and ignored the claim it was actually making.
No, I addressed the claim it made. Just not an external, different one it also linked to. This is reasonable.

I have been engaging with your position, it's all over the place.
Well so far, you've attributed several positions to me that I've simply never, ever expressed. Not even once. So I don't think it's inconsistency as much as you're inventing stuff and then getting angry about the positions you've invented.


First, I said equivocated.
No, don't weasel out of it. You originally said I was fine with embassy burnings. Don't pretend you didn't.


Second:


This is your first post on the subject. I had to go back and find where it started, and it's certainly distressing to see how many people equivocated on what should have been a simple matter, but alas, that's the world we live in.
At no point, ever, did I express anything that indicated I'm fine with embassy burnings. That's a goddamn lie. You're now trying to shift onto talking about "equivocation", which is conveniently far more subjective, but that wasn't your original smear.
 

Hawki

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Not really, because the statement concerned the "grassroots left". A bit later you used that term interchangeably with "far left". But "grassroots left" includes the broad base of support for moderate leftists.
Yes, I used the term far left because I'd put the people described in the article on the far left. You'd have grassroots left on the far left, you'd have far left that aren't grassroots, etc. Grassroots in the sense that they're grassroots groups, far left because of their extreme positions.

I might quibble, but I wouldn't care as much, no. What, you're surprised people take accusations to heart if they're the target of them?
You're not the target of them. That's not how it works. If you're in a voluntary association with a group, and someone says something negative about that group, you might, even reasonably, feel offended, but that isn't a personal attack. I might be offended if someone says "everyone who plays videogames is an obese neckbeard," but unless they're saying it to me personally, that's not a personal attack, and I'd just shrug (or set them to ignore, in this site, as I've done over the years)

Also, it doesn't say anything good that you only care about the semantics when it affects your 'team.'

No, I addressed the claim it made. Just not an external, different one it also linked to. This is reasonable.
No, that isn't reasonable.

Well so far, you've attributed several positions to me that I've simply never, ever expressed. Not even once. So I don't think it's inconsistency as much as you're inventing stuff and then getting angry about the positions you've invented.
You don't even seem to have positions. This entire thing has been quibbling over far left vs. grassroots left, how hyperlinking works in articles, and disinterest in the concept of bias/balance in media.

No, don't weasel out of it. You originally said I was fine with embassy burnings. Don't pretend you didn't.
Yes, I said that you were fine. In hindsight, that was perhaps an extreme term to use. I don't believe you think it's fine to burn down embassies in a vacuum. However...

At no point, ever, did I express anything that indicated I'm fine with embassy burnings. That's a goddamn lie. You're now trying to shift onto talking about "equivocation", which is conveniently far more subjective, but that wasn't your original smear.
First of all, you've been saying that stuff posted on this very thread doesn't exist, so don't come crying to me about lying.

Second of all, yes, you did equivocate. You and lots of other people. The same way you equivocated on this very thread between Islamic, Christian, and Jewish terrorism on this very thread. I gave the statistics on Islamic terrorism, one of your core counter-arguments was "what about the LRA?" In fact, it's something of a running trend. This kind of argument only works if all things are equal. I don't care how offended someone is about a book being burnt if their reaction is to burn down a building in response.

And to be clear, the whole embassy thing? Going over the posts again, it's certainly disheartening to see where so many people stand. That's a personal thing of course, but if you're dedicated to the left, maybe ask yourself why so many people are alienated from it? Because, spoiler, this is one of the reasons why.
 

Gordon_4

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I mean, *if* a rocket misfired and squirreled it's way into an ammunition dump and maybe a gas main or some oxygen tanks, maybe

On the other hand, when has the IDF ever been skittish about hitting civilian targets that they say Hamas is hiding in?

Honestly, I think it's because it was Anglican and killed *way* more people than they're used to
Don’t most modern hospitals have very extensive internal oxygen plumbing systems? I swear I’ve seen outlets for oxygen on the walls of wards.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Don’t most modern hospitals have very extensive internal oxygen plumbing systems? I swear I’ve seen outlets for oxygen on the walls of wards.
...in Gaza?

Besides, now they're trying to claim a fragment of air-exploded rocket hit the roof and caused the whole place to go up, which, if you've seen a rocket from these guys is absolutely laughable
 

Seanchaidh

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I can verify that tweet did actually exist since I left a rude reply to it.

 
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