Trump ordered to pay $350 million for fraudulent business practices in New York

Silvanus

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A ruling and a law are 2 different things.
Uhrm, yes. And a ruling determines the official interpretation of a law. So a ruling can determine what is and isn't legal.

And for 30 years, the Roe decision didn't make legal sense.
Blah blah blah, opinion. Isn't relevant to the point: the right to privacy gave people abortion access before, legally unimpeded. They lost it when Roe was overturned. You can argue all you like that it was bad or good or whatever, but that's not what we were discussing. The right to privacy covered something legally. Then it didn't.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Uhrm, yes. And a ruling determines the official interpretation of a law. So a ruling can determine what is and isn't legal.



Blah blah blah, opinion. Isn't relevant to the point: the right to privacy gave people abortion access before, legally unimpeded. They lost it when Roe was overturned. You can argue all you like that it was bad or good or whatever, but that's not what we were discussing. The right to privacy covered something legally. Then it didn't.
"Roe isn't really about the woman's choice, is it?" Ginsburg told the University of Chicago Law School in May 2013. "It's about the doctor's freedom to practice...it wasn't woman-centered, it was physician-centered."
 

Silvanus

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"Roe isn't really about the woman's choice, is it?" Ginsburg told the University of Chicago Law School in May 2013. "It's about the doctor's freedom to practice...it wasn't woman-centered, it was physician-centered."
Does this quote change either of the following facts:

1. Before Roe was repealed, women had access to abortion;
2. After Roe was repealed, they didn't in certain states.

?
 
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Silvanus

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It was a doctor's right, not a woman's right.
Does that change either of the following facts:

1. Before Roe was repealed, women had access to abortion;
2. After Roe was repealed, they didn't in certain states.

?
 

Piscian

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BrawlMan

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And another one.

 

Silvanus

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It wasn't their right. You can have access to something without it being your right.
When we discuss the 'right' to abortion, we are referring to the ability to access it without legal impediment. Besides which, it legally came under the right to privacy, so it was legally and officially considered included in that right for 30 years.
 

Phoenixmgs

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When we discuss the 'right' to abortion, we are referring to the ability to access it without legal impediment. Besides which, it legally came under the right to privacy, so it was legally and officially considered included in that right for 30 years.
Again, that was the doctor's right.
 

Silvanus

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Again, that was the doctor's right.
"This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment’s concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth Amendment’s reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a *woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.*"

So, no. The Roe ruling explicitly identified the woman's decision as covered by the right of privacy.
 

Ag3ma

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And another one.

So, TMTG, a company that appears to have Truth Social as its only significant product, is being valued (on paper) at $10 billion, giving Trump a theoretical $4 billion windfall.

That's an interesting valuation. To put it in context, alternative valuations of Truth Social are about $15-25 million, and TMTG has lost over $30 million since 2022. As a comparison, Truth Social has a little over half a million daily users. X (fka Twitter) has over 100 million daily users, and is currently estimated to be worth about twice the claims of TMTG, $20 billion.

This $10 billion valuation is insane. At best, it might be a marketing scam - it seems deeply implausible that serious investors are going to go anywhere near a valuation of $10 billion. The best that can be expected is that a load of Trump fanatics and supporters load up with shares (at the obscenely overvalued asking price) to demonstrate their loyalty, and will then be rewarded with the value of those shares instantly tanking by an order of magnitude or worse. Even then there is no credible chance that they will get close to $10 billion.

The alternative is that this TMTG is simply marketed as an investment vehicle: they've hired a crack team of investment experts who are going to take that $10 billion from the IPO as a fund to invest in other (media / tech) companies. In the sense that your investment money will therefore go into a portfolio of proper, actual companies, you might hold your share value. However, even then if people can plough $10 billion into a $10 billion company and Donald Trump gets to own $4 billion of it, I would suggest those investors are getting royally stiffed.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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"This right of privacy, whether it be founded in the Fourteenth Amendment’s concept of personal liberty and restrictions upon state action, as we feel it is, or, as the District Court determined, in the Ninth Amendment’s reservation of rights to the people, is broad enough to encompass a *woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.*"

So, no. The Roe ruling explicitly identified the woman's decision as covered by the right of privacy.
Blackmun concludes explicitly that “the decision vindicates the right of the physician to administer medical treatment according to his professional judgment.” In his view, “The abortion decision in all its aspects is inherently, and primarily, a medical decision, and basic responsibility for it must rest with the physician.”

Feminist scholars have long noticed — and criticized — the physician-centered rhetoric and logic of the Roe decision, and with good reason. There is something paternalistic and even subordinating about the notion that an implicitly male physician guides and perhaps controls a woman’s body.

That’s why my students are so surprised. They assume, reasonably enough, that Roe v. Wade is a landmark decision establishing a woman’s right to choose. Instead they find an opinion that transfers responsibility for the woman’s decision from the state to the physician — with the woman’s control over her own body almost an afterthought by the end of the opinion.


 

Silvanus

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Blackmun concludes explicitly that “the decision vindicates the right of the physician to administer medical treatment according to his professional judgment.” In his view, “The abortion decision in all its aspects is inherently, and primarily, a medical decision, and basic responsibility for it must rest with the physician.”

Feminist scholars have long noticed — and criticized — the physician-centered rhetoric and logic of the Roe decision, and with good reason. There is something paternalistic and even subordinating about the notion that an implicitly male physician guides and perhaps controls a woman’s body.

That’s why my students are so surprised. They assume, reasonably enough, that Roe v. Wade is a landmark decision establishing a woman’s right to choose. Instead they find an opinion that transfers responsibility for the woman’s decision from the state to the physician — with the woman’s control over her own body almost an afterthought by the end of the opinion.


OK. Yet the ruling itself explicitly identifies the woman's decision as covered by the right to privacy.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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OK. Yet the ruling itself explicitly identifies the woman's decision as covered by the right to privacy.
But, it's not...
"Roe isn't really about the woman's choice, is it?" Ginsburg told the University of Chicago Law School in May 2013. "It's about the doctor's freedom to practice...it wasn't woman-centered, it was physician-centered."
 

Silvanus

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But, it's not...
"Roe isn't really about the woman's choice, is it?" Ginsburg told the University of Chicago Law School in May 2013. "It's about the doctor's freedom to practice...it wasn't woman-centered, it was physician-centered."
I've quoted the text of the ruling itself quite clearly saying the /woman's/ choice is covered by the right to privacy.
 
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