The Left calling out The Left for gaslighting people about crime

[Phoenixmgs]

Did hell just freeze over? The left is actually calling out the left for gaslighting people about crime.

The video is pretty decent and goes a bit into how the left likes to fudge the crime numbers. It goes into the differences between the FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) that pulls data from the police and the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) that surveys hundreds of thousands of people. The one thing they did leave out was the fact FBI's Uniform Crime Report (UCR) used to use the SRS system to collect data but now uses exclusively a new system, NIBRS, which a lot of police agencies haven't switched to and now aren't reporting data. This is way there is now a rather massive disconnect between the UCR and NCVS, where the UCR says crime went down while the NCVS says crime is significantly up. One system changed while the other didn't so the system that didn't change is highly likely to be more accurate.

The fact that the left likes to push that crime isn't up but stores are locking basic items behind cases and disallowing teenagers from shopping doesn't make any sense if crime is actually going down. Also, how is crime going down when governor of New York just called in the National Guard to do illegal and unconstitutional random bag searches of subway riders? Crime is not up at all... nothing to see here.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Not all crime is the same.

Petty crime like shoplifting being up doesn't affect people the same way that violent crime does.

Frankly, I couldn't give less of a shit if more people are suddenly stealing from Walmart if fewer people are being violently mugged on the street.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Petty crime like shoplifting being up doesn't affect people the same way that violent crime does.

Yeah, but it affects the shareholders, and they're people, too.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Yeah, but it affects the shareholders, and they're people, too.

That's why no one does anything about wage theft.

 

[Elijin]

One system changed while the other didn't so the system that didn't change is highly likely to be more accurate.

Why?

 

[crimson5pheonix]

and they're people, too.

Debatable.

As for the OP,
>WAPO
>Left
lul, lmao even.

 

[Gergar12]

Hard agree.

 

[Schadrach]

Why?

Because a lot of departments aren't reporting on the system that FBI NCR is using now, which means a lot of departments crimes aren't being counted at all, which artificially depresses the crime rate. While the other one hasn't changed methods or participation and so is approximately as accurate as it has ever been.

 

[Gergar12]

That's why no one does anything about wage theft.

Both are bad, and both raise the cost of living. Also, do you want stores shut down??? Great have fun being a food desert.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Both are bad, and both raise the cost of living. Also, do you want stores shut down??? Great have fun being a food desert.

I didn't say theft from stores is good, but I do think that some types of theft are worse than others. Stealing from the poor is worse than stealing from the rich, stealing from people is worse than stealing from companies. Wage theft is the worst type of theft, because it tends to be massive multi-billion dollar companies like Walmart (well know and documented for wage theft) stealing from mostly poor people who are the least able to afford being stolen from.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Not all crime is the same.

Petty crime like shoplifting being up doesn't affect people the same way that violent crime does.

Frankly, I couldn't give less of a shit if more people are suddenly stealing from Walmart if fewer people are being violently mugged on the street.

They also talked about how much violent is up as well.

That's why no one does anything about wage theft.

You can simply stand up for yourself. Either sue for the money or quit, collect umemployment and find a new job.

Currently at my job (that I switched to just last month), I'm expected to work from 8am-5pm but our employee handbook says our lunch is 30mins unpaid and we have two 15min paid breaks. Thus, I leave at 4:30pm everyday because working until 5pm would be 8.5 hours of work and I'm pretty sure if I put that into my timecard, they wouldn't approve the overtime. The site lead purposefully comes into my area right at 4:30 like daring me to leave as he thinks that I'll stay as to not make an issue or avoid awkwardness. He doesn't realize I don't give a shit and walk out right in front of him. The other guys that got hired at the same exact time as me (we switched companies but essentially have the same job at the same location and everything) and got the same exact offer letter (because we all compared) don't do that because they simply don't wanna make waves.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Why?

If you have 2 kinds of measurement for something (whatever, doesn't matter, crime is what is measured here obviously) for comparison purposes to make sure one isn't significantly off and they have both been close to each other for a good length of time, you then change the way you do one of those measurements and find that there's quite a disconnect between the 2 results. Basic logic will tell you it's most likely the change you made to the one measurement, would it not?

Also what Schadrach said.

 

[Silvanus]

You can simply stand up for yourself. Either sue for the money or quit, collect umemployment and find a new job.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

You can simply stand up for yourself. Either sue for the money or quit, collect umemployment and find a new job.

You can't collect unemployment if you quit.

Good luck suing a multi-billion dollar company by yourself. Unless you're part of a class action lawsuit you're fucked, and if you are part of a class action lawsuit you're only getting a fraction of what you're actually owed (source, I was part of a class action lawsuit against a company I worked for due to wage theft).

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I'm literally doing it now, I leave a half hour earlier than everyone else so there is no wage theft.

You can't collect unemployment if you quit.

Good luck suing a multi-billion dollar company by yourself. Unless you're part of a class action lawsuit you're fucked, and if you are part of a class action lawsuit you're only getting a fraction of what you're actually owed (source, I was part of a class action lawsuit against a company I worked for due to wage theft).

Yeah, you can get unemployment for quitting if it's for a good cause. I'm sure not getting paid would be a good fucking cause. Suing a company over something like not getting paid is not some hard case to bring to court or win.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Also pretty funny how you guys aren't simply agreeing with crime being up is bad. Or no mentioned how bad it is the governor of New York is ordering unlawful and unconstitutional searches of private property. You're simply defending it as "well, it's OK because of wage theft or I don't care about Walmart".

 

[Silvanus]

I'm literally doing it now, I leave a half hour earlier than everyone else so there is no wage theft.

"Joke's on you, I intentionally do a shit job at the hospital I work for" is a hell of a flex. Every time I think I couldn't lose more respect for you, you prove me wrong.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Also pretty funny how you guys aren't simply agreeing with crime being up is bad. Or no mentioned how bad it is the governor of New York is ordering unlawful and unconstitutional searches of private property. You're simply defending it as "well, it's OK because of wage theft or I don't care about Walmart".

There's nothing to really talk about here.

There is one study claiming that crime is up, and another study claiming crime is down. None of us have access to the data being used by either side, so there isn't really much to discuss about who is right.

You're using this as a "gotcha" that simply isn't there.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

"Joke's on you, I intentionally do a shit job at the hospital I work for" is a hell of a flex. Every time I think I couldn't lose more respect for you, you prove me wrong.

Working the 8 hours I'm supposed to work is me doing a shit job? I thought it's the company being shit for wage theft? Now, it's me doing shit work because I leave when I'm supposed to? Or can you guys not make up your mind, it's constantly a no-win situation here.

- "I'm OK with people shoplifting because wage theft"
- "You can like not let a company steal your wages, I myself don't let the company do that"
- "Saying you do a shit job is a hell of a flex"
- "WTF you guys talking about? Do you want companies to steal wages then? Ya'll make no sense."

It's not my fault the company doesn't know how to do simple math. They say work is 8am-5pm but then say lunch is 30mins and 2 paid 15 minute breaks so that would math out to leaving at 4:30 being 8 hours of work. And I'm hourly because I purposefully made sure the offer letter was hourly and not salary so I'm not asked to do free overtime and bullshit like that. It just so happened I'm currently in a situation that would be a company practicing wage theft (it's not like I brought it up to begin with) and merely didn't let it happen. You guys are all problems this, problems that, but don't actually care about the simple solutions to such problems.

There's nothing to really talk about here.

There is one study claiming that crime is up, and another study claiming crime is down. None of us have access to the data being used by either side, so there isn't really much to discuss about who is right.

You're using this as a "gotcha" that simply isn't there.

How are you gonna say the NVCS isn't the more accurate tool at this point and it's saying crime is way up (both theft and violent crime). You guys just don't wanna use basic logic and agree because then you're agreeing with a "right wing" talking point. I wonder why the National Guard is now in the NYC subway system? What do you think it could be for? I wonder why stores are putting basic items behind locked cases or not allowing teenagers in. Why would they be doing either of those things if it wasn't because stuff was being stolen at higher rates than normal? It must be some conspiracy theory and all these stores are doing things to lower their sales just to trick you into thinking crime is up. That's obviously the most logical conclusion!!! Crime can't be up because the New York Times says so!

You have articles just like the following literally lying and gaslighting you about the crime numbers:

Retail Group Retracts Startling Claim About ‘Organized’ Shoplifting

The National Retail Federation had said that nearly half of the industry’s $94.5 billion in missing merchandise in 2021 was the result of organized theft. It was likely closer to 5 percent, experts say.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

How are you gonna say the NVCS isn't the more accurate tool at this point and it's saying crime is way up (both theft and violent crime).

You're just assuming that NVCS is correct because it's a legacy system.

NIBRS could very well be more accurate due to the use of more modern data collection tools.

Could the government be using NIBRS because they want crime statistics to look better for the administration? Yes. Could they be using it because its data is more reliable? Also yes. We don't know which it is because neither you nor I have access to the data to affirm or dispute its accuracy.

One system says X and another says Y means very little. If you've ever taken a course in criminal statistics (I have, I majored in criminal justice in college) you would know that you can make stats say basically anything you want, even without resorting to using a different system.

I wonder why the National Guard is now in the NYC subway system?

No idea. Last time I was in New York, like 6 years ago there were cops on almost every street corner in Manhattan, and at every Subway stop. Does that mean that there was an epidemic of crime in New York City 6 years ago? Anecdotal evidence in one city doesn't mean anything with regards to nation-wide trends. Maybe they have the National Guard there because they're worried about right-wing terrorist attacks over the Trump prosecutions. See? I can wildly speculate too.

I wonder why stores are putting basic items behind locked cases or not allowing teenagers in. Why would they be doing either of those things if it wasn't because stuff was being stolen at higher rates than normal?

For the same reason that stores are moving to more self-checkout. They don't want to pay people. It's cheaper to install a machine than to pay a cashier. It's cheaper to lock something in a case than it is to hire security. I think companies love cutting costs and raising prices.

If there's a perception that there's a lot of organized crime targeting stores it gives those stores an excuse to raise prices. It's the same thing that happened during the pandemic, stores raised prices due to issues with supply lines and inflation, those issues were resolved but prices have continued to rise. At this point it's well known that prices are going up purely due to corporate greed and their ability to make excuses about inflation when they themselves are now the cause of it. Corporations need a new scapegoat about why prices are going up, hence the "crime epidemic."