Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates
- Thread starter dreng3
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Why must one imagine that? They've got a track record of unsubstantiated allegations, as well as lists of UNRWA staff.
This seems rather insubstantial.
If the purview was an article specifically about American bombings, that sentence would be completely reasonable, and it would be absurd to argue it should give equal weight to events outside of its purview.
You're still just complaining that they're focusing on their purview. It's an irrelevant non-argument, and the substance of that list is solid.
No. Yet they are subject to Israeli policy and the effects of Israeli law, and their access to resources is determined by Israel. Their exclusion when considering the effects of discrimination in Israeli law is arbitrary.
Israel gave no evidence for any of their accusations against UNRWA. They had the chance for that report, and failed to do so. You are still wrong and don't know anything.
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Totally disagree, context is king. Without context nothing means anything, its just "shit happens."
Well, they are an occupied people, kinda expected they wouldn't have the same rights. Seems like violence isn't helping that much.
Disagree all you like, but that's how legal aid groups work everywhere. Groups have purviews. This is not a mark against their credibility for any rational person. There is nothing wrong with the link you were provided with and this is still deflection: you have a comprehensive list of laws explicitly discriminating against Israeli Arabs.
OK, so we've gone from "They're not discriminated against" to "They are discriminated against but its fine".
It needs to end ffs. This is gonna turn the world so so much crazier if it don't. Might be worth considering closer analysis of how people and governments composing the WW2 "light side" were honestly treating those very victims of the genocide before - and yes even mostly after - the war was done. The cumulative process of decades worth of entertainment/diluted-education/pop-history propaganda blurring mainstream understanding of grim realities such as the gays were still imprisoned and the refugees still treated like "illegals" are now by the most toxic of xenophobic press still shunning the victims they claim to have fought for to this day, then lo and behold a new state was magically blown out of the very crust of this planet earth to save all the coward governments discomfort at taking in those victims. Oh but hey if you're a nazi scientist, we got a real prized few job positions at NASA for you!
Seriously?
Imagine a person was accused of murder with evidence and they confessed to it. Then later, they get accused of more murders without the same evidence, and then someone goes on Twitter and claims that there was no evidence this person committed murder, even the first murder, the one they confessed to. Is that an insubstantial difference?
They did give evidence for their accusations against the 12. To the UNRWA. There is some public record with alleged photos of the participation in October 7th that I have no ability to validate nor reason to trust at face value... but the UNRWA has those abilities, and fired the accused, and published a report about how they take accusations against their members seriously as many of them are valid and should be taken seriously.
I can only assume you pursue ignorance on purpose.
They were fired pending investigation. Here's the investigation. Israel provided nothing to substantiate their claims. You're the willfully ignorant one.
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Then its rather worthless for our discussion.
If they aren't israeli citizens then the literally aren't what I am talking about and every country discriminates against non-citizens.
Yes, and the report found that Israel provided no credible information for their claims. They never do. They just like killing aid workers.
You wanted evidence of legal discrimination against Israeli Arabs. You were given exactly that, from an internationally credible source. It's as directly relevant as you can get-- and you're not even disputing the substance.
Yes, I know you want to make arbitrary exclusions. Most other countries don't have millions of people subject to their laws and policies, under their control and occupation, who aren't citizens.
That's not an insubstantial difference. It's also so completely incomparable to the situation we're discussing that it's absurd.
Israel accused 12 of the UNRWA staff of specific participation in October 7th, with names, occupations, what they allegedly did on the 7th, and sometimes pictures or recordings. UNRWA received this info and fired all those shown to be involved. Then Israel claimed a lot more of their staff is connected to Hamas without the same level of evidence. In response, crimsons position is " Israel provided no credible information for their claims. They never do. They just like killing aid workers. "
It's the exact same situation.
You say "with names, occupations, what they allegedly did" as if that is substantiation. Its not. That's still just allegation.
You said UNRWA fired people "shown to be involved", but that's also untrue-- they were fired pending investigation.
The only part here that's relevant is "sometimes with pictures and recordings"-- which were actually sorely lacking.
So, no, that's completely incomparable to accusations made with evidence and confessions.
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Isaeli arabs, not palastinians. They are different groups.
This is a big reason why this situation is so complicated.
I recommend you actually read the sources you've been provided with, which make it abundantly clear that Israeli law also discriminates against Israeli Arabs.
Yes, I'm aware. Yet 'complexity' is not an excuse to operate an apartheid-- it's just a vapid descriptor.
Likud prefers to deny both Israeli citizenship and/or the promise of a future state to Palestinians. It prefers to perpetuate this complex limbo situation in which millions of people languish without legal protections. That way, they can seize the land piecemeal with impunity, and kill whoever is in the way. It is a complex tiered system of legal status precisely because that allows the government to do what it wants without giving certain groups the protection of the law or the vote.
Do you have a source for those italics? Or is crimson5phoenix enough for you to stake your reputation on?