What are you currently playing?

[Bartholen]

Finished ME1 Legendary and immediately jumped into ME2. Time has been much kinder to this game than the first. I remember this game in particular being the topic of some debate back in the day about whether it was dumbed down for the dummy dumb dumb third person shooter audience. While I can see a degree of merit to that argument (a lot of games were getting action-ified at that time and in doing so losing their identity), it mostly seems so childish, toxic and whiny in retrospect. IMO ME2 is far superior to the first. It obviously looks much better, the gameplay's much better, the animation and characters are more lively, the characters are frankly better, the story hook is better, I don't know if there's a single aspect I miss from the first game. I'm even one of those crazy people who enjoys the planet scanning, in that lizard brain cookie clicker "number go up" gratification kind of way. The overall design has been tightened and a lot of the fat has been trimmed, which makes for a much more engaging overall experience. Global cooldowns, relatively limited ammo and the rock-paper-scissors dynamic of armor, shields and barriers are among the top best design choices made in this game.

 

[meiam]

Beat the museum in Persona 5. Boss there was much easier then the first boss. They really should rename it from 'Persona 5 Royal' to 'Persona 5 the damn cat won't let you out after dark'. But despite the cat, its really enjoyable, the scenarios make sense and even how you get into them so far, flows pretty well and doesn't come off like kids looking for trouble, it seems to find them fine.

That was the beginning of the end of P5 for me, the entire scenario is really kids picking fight for no reason, they randomly go to an exhibition and then overheard some people saying he copy work or something, and that's what they decide to kill him over? That's quite a drop from child molester (they eventually find out more, but that's long after they decided to target him) and seems just so small compared to all the other kind of big evil you can find in the world. Even keeping it to people they know personally, why not investigate the principal who didn't give a crap about the PE teacher? Or the rapist politician who get the MC throw into the bad school?

Finished ME1 Legendary and immediately jumped into ME2. Time, as it turns out, has been much kinder to this game than the first. I remember this game in particular being the topic of some debate back in the day about whether it was dumbed down for the dummy dumb dumb third person shooter audience. While I can see a degree of merit to that argument (a lot of games were getting action-ified at that time and in doing so losing their identity), it mostly seems so childish, toxic and whiny in retrospect. IMO ME2 is far superior to the first. It obviously looks much better, the gameplay's much better, the animation and characters are more lively, the characters are frankly better, the story hook is better, I don't know if there's a single aspect I miss from the first game. I'm even one of those crazy people who enjoys the planet scanning, in that lizard brain cookie clicker "number go up" gratification kind of way. The overall design has been tightened and a lot of the fat has been trimmed, which makes for a much more engaging overall experience. Global cooldowns, relatively limited ammo and the rock-paper-scissors dynamic of armor, shields and barriers are among the top best design choices made in this game.

Gameplay wise, its a clear improvement over 1, a lot of the gameplay choice in ME1 was just shallow with no interesting impact. There was a lot of loot, but it was just crap that didn't impact the game. Problem was the story complexity was massively reduced at the same time and they really did make it for the dumb dumb.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

That was the beginning of the end of P5 for me, the entire scenario is really kids picking fight for no reason, they randomly go to an exhibition and then overheard some people saying he copy work or something, and that's what they decide to kill him over?

Question: When was the last time you actually played Persona 5? Because that's not how it happens.

In Mementos, they encounter the Shadow of a man named Nakanohara, who'd given up on life because of what Madarame did to him, and called him out on it during and after the Phantom Thieves' battle against him. Nakanohara even posts on the Phansite to ask that Madarame's heart be changed later - which they don't find out about until after going to the exhibition, where Madarame just seems like a normal guy to them. It's not until they get the request that they start to research Madarame in detail, up to learning that he's messed up enough to have a Palace like Kamoshida did.

The Palace, in and of itself, is evidence that something is seriously wrong - at least by the logic of the teenagers, who A) are teenagers, and B) had already decided to continue changing hearts to improve society, because they don't trust anyone else to do it. So, given that they have a huge and "obvious" target in front of them, what reason did they have to turn it down?

Also, "kill" is very much the wrong word here. They don't kill people, and they don't want to - there was that whole thing in the first arc over whether it was worth the chance of killing Kamoshida or not, and they only went for it because they had no other choice. But since changing Kamoshida's heart didn't kill him, now they know it doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) part of their MO.

That's quite a drop from child molester (they eventually find out more, but that's long after they decided to target him) and seems just so small compared to all the other kind of big evil you can find in the world.

They don't have access to "the world". They can only deal with the bad people they actually know about, and Madarame is one of them - and bad enough to have a Palace, which is why they decide to take him on and dispel it.

Even keeping it to people they know personally, why not investigate the principal who didn't give a crap about the PE teacher? Or the rapist politician who get the MC throw into the bad school?

Principal Kobayakawa's a terrible person, sure, but he just doesn't have enough going on to make an interesting Palace out of. His problem isn't that he's "distorting" reality. As for the politician, see above: they don't know enough about him at that point to do anything about him.

Not understanding themes or subtext, I can excuse. Lord knows I'm pretty dense about that stuff a lot of the time. But you're getting the actual events of the story wrong, and that doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Worgen]

That was the beginning of the end of P5 for me, the entire scenario is really kids picking fight for no reason, they randomly go to an exhibition and then overheard some people saying he copy work or something, and that's what they decide to kill him over? That's quite a drop from child molester (they eventually find out more, but that's long after they decided to target him) and seems just so small compared to all the other kind of big evil you can find in the world. Even keeping it to people they know personally, why not investigate the principal who didn't give a crap about the PE teacher? Or the rapist politician who get the MC throw into the bad school?

Hes not as good as the gym teacher, but they way they did it works. Plus, I guess you never found out what he did to

Spoiler

Fox's mother

.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Beat the museum in Persona 5. Boss there was much easier then the first boss. They really should rename it from 'Persona 5 Royal' to 'Persona 5 the damn cat won't let you out after dark'. But despite the cat, its really enjoyable, the scenarios make sense and even how you get into them so far, flows pretty well and doesn't come off like kids looking for trouble, it seems to find them fine.

If you want a hint that helps with saving time to counteract the cat, there are a couple confidants that are best to max out sooner rather than later, in general descriptions they are:

Spoiler

The maid and the fortune teller.

I was going along keeping everybody around the same level and I think not focusing on them first cost me a lot of time in the long run.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Forgive the unsolicited recommendation, but if you're looking for a game that fits 'real roguelike' as I understand you mean it, have you tried 'TowerClimb' before? It's a lot like Spelunky except in reverse, including in how it basically has no meta-progression except your own understanding of the game. The most you can unlock other than side modes is a shortcut to the 20th floor of about 55.

Ok, I've tried it out. First impressions. This is definitely a roguelike, really unforgiving too. Kind of unfortunate as the controls are pretty awkward, even on a controller. Even if Super Mario World had run and pickup item being the same button, it's awkward here. Selecting the right item in a hurry is really annoying because the game doesn't even give you a hotbar to see how many times you need to click to get to your spear or whatever. The game could also stand to give you more information on the items that aren't in the tutorial. I have no idea how I'm supposed to figure out useful combinations to give to the skull mask guy other than wasting valuable items on trial and error.

Thus far I am interested in keeping going, the proc-gen does keep it interesting and hopefully I'll acclimatize to the controls a bit more.

 

[Worgen]

I was going along keeping everybody around the same level and I think not focusing on them first cost me a lot of time in the long run.

Well, I can't call the

Spoiler

maid

yet since I don't have enough guts and I haven't met the

Spoiler

fortune teller

at all yet.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

[snip]

Believe it or not, Royal is actually better about night-time than the original game was. On days when you went into dungeons or had story events, Morgana wouldn't allow you to do anything except go straight to bed; Royal changed it to allow you to do things around the cafe, so you can still work on reading books, studying, crafting tools and such. It is worth pursuing Temperance (the maid) early if you can, nevertheless, but don't stress too much about optimization. Royal gives you a lot more time and leeway to get everything finished before the end of the game compared to vanilla, and on a first playthrough you won't know the tricks of the trade yet.

 

[Worgen]

Believe it or not, Royal is actually better about night-time than the original game was. On days when you went into dungeons or had story events, Morgana wouldn't allow you to do anything except go straight to bed; Royal changed it to allow you to do things around the cafe, so you can still work on reading books, studying, crafting tools and such. It is worth pursuing Temperance (the maid) early if you can, nevertheless, but don't stress too much about optimization. Royal gives you a lot more time and leeway to get everything finished before the end of the game compared to vanilla, and on a first playthrough you won't know the tricks of the trade yet.

Cool, good to know, when I played 4 it felt like I never had enough time to get stats.

 

[meiam]

Question: When was the last time you actually played Persona 5? Because that's not how it happens.

In Mementos, they encounter the Shadow of a man named Nakanohara, who'd given up on life because of what Madarame did to him, and called him out on it during and after the Phantom Thieves' battle against him. Nakanohara even posts on the Phansite to ask that Madarame's heart be changed later - which they don't find out about until after going to the exhibition, where Madarame just seems like a normal guy to them. It's not until they get the request that they start to research Madarame in detail, up to learning that he's messed up enough to have a Palace like Kamoshida did.

The Palace, in and of itself, is evidence that something is seriously wrong - at least by the logic of the teenagers, who A) are teenagers, and B) had already decided to continue changing hearts to improve society, because they don't trust anyone else to do it. So, given that they have a huge and "obvious" target in front of them, what reason did they have to turn it down?

Also, "kill" is very much the wrong word here. They don't kill people, and they don't want to - there was that whole thing in the first arc over whether it was worth the chance of killing Kamoshida or not, and they only went for it because they had no other choice. But since changing Kamoshida's heart didn't kill him, now they know it doesn't have to be (and shouldn't be) part of their MO.

They don't have access to "the world". They can only deal with the bad people they actually know about, and Madarame is one of them - and bad enough to have a Palace, which is why they decide to take him on and dispel it.

Principal Kobayakawa's a terrible person, sure, but he just doesn't have enough going on to make an interesting Palace out of. His problem isn't that he's "distorting" reality. As for the politician, see above: they don't know enough about him at that point to do anything about him.

Not understanding themes or subtext, I can excuse. Lord knows I'm pretty dense about that stuff a lot of the time. But you're getting the actual events of the story wrong, and that doesn't sit right with me.

If they don't know enough about the politician or the principal they could... I don't know, investigate them? Like they did with Madarame? It would actually make for a much better game and keep in the spirit of an heist if you had to stake out the target and learn about him, rather than semi randomly stumbling onto info about them.

The problem isn't one of in game logic (although its really flimsy), the problem is that Madarame is just not an interesting target, doesn't flow from previous events (if this was a TV show I'd call it filler) or lead to more interesting one, starts on flimsy excuse (can you imagine if Punisher style vigilante went around hunting everyone who get a negative message written about them on forum board?) and his crime are really petty in the gran scheme of things. Story work best when they escalate stakes, but Madarame is a clear step down. Although considering the next few target, it seems like deescalation stakes was the goal, so maybe he does flow in that sense? iirc the first few one are child rapist, art fraud, scammer, hikikomori, rich, good prosecutor, good cop

Kill is the closest word that match what they're doing. If you change someone personality so much that they would vehemently disagree with their new one, the original person is functionally dead. Doesn't matter if they replace them afterwards. You could say there's some leeway when the target request it, but otherwise its just murder. It could actually be seen as worse than murder, if someone were to change me into someone who would go on to cause what I would see as great harm to me and other around me, I'd rather be dead over that.

They also can access a lot more than bad people, like Futaba its very much a case of whatever the story needs it to be at any point.

The theme that emerge from the game events is really just "Teenager are fucking stupid and should absolutely not be given any sort of power to change the world because they'll just misuses it".

 

[Worgen]

The theme that emerge from the game events is really just "Teenager are fucking stupid and should absolutely not be given any sort of power to change the world because they'll just misuses it".

Are you sure you actually played Persona 5? This sounds like the kinda summary of someone who only heard about this part.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Still Towerclimb. This game is absurdly punishing even by roguelike standards. Honestly, I think a hard cap of death in 2 hits is the most punishing of any roguelike I've ever played, especially for an action roguelike. Though I have figured out that box plus spike equals spear and that's a really useful item to get early on. I've made it up to The Heart, and then I died twice in a level absolutely brimming with lava jets. Guess I should have used some of my teleport pots, but I might have needed them more later.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Still Towerclimb. This game is absurdly punishing even by roguelike standards. Honestly, I think a hard cap of death in 2 hits is the most punishing of any roguelike I've ever played, especially for an action roguelike. Though I have figured out that box plus spike equals spear and that's a really useful item to get early on. I've made it up to The Heart, and then I died twice in a level absolutely brimming with lava jets. Guess I should have used some of my teleport pots, but I might have needed them more later.

There's an easy difficulty that lets you buy up to two revive potions at once, and makes them cost half as many gold berries. It isn't much, but it's something.

Are you sure you actually played Persona 5? This sounds like the kinda summary of someone who only heard about this part.

Well, that saves me a lot of time. Thank you.

Anyway, just so that everybody who wants to contribute is on the same page re: Madarame/plot of Persona 5:

Spoiler: Here's a video of the Madarame arc. Beware of spoilers starting from the thumbnail.

 

[Drathnoxis]

There's an easy difficulty that lets you buy up to two revive potions at once, and makes them cost half as many gold berries. It isn't much, but it's something.

And you're expecting me to play on easy mode? Come on.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Finished Sheepo. It was a nice, short, friendly game. It's a decent platformer that carries momemtum and makes the most out of your suite of shape-shifting. Going for 100% was just challenging enough to make me want to keep playing.

Here's another Metroidvania that I finished over the weekend in 2 and a half hours and was barely worth the 29 cents: Alchemist's Castle.

Right off the bat, it's buggy and prone to glitches. Walk into any room and there's a chance none of the traps work or none of the platforms move. I also had a few crashes. I think the game doesn't like it if you sprint while spikes are falling and you're getting shot at by an enemy at the same time. The game also asks you if you want to just quit altogether whenever you die. Not as a joke or anything, just the same menu, over and over - do you want to respawn or do you want to quit? I knew the game was only an hour or two long so I decided to just finish it in one sitting, knowing there was no scenario where I stop playing and then wish to continue some other day.

 

[Bartholen]

Gameplay wise, its a clear improvement over 1, a lot of the gameplay choice in ME1 was just shallow with no interesting impact. There was a lot of loot, but it was just crap that didn't impact the game. Problem was the story complexity was massively reduced at the same time and they really did make it for the dumb dumb.

Can you elaborate on the story complexity being reduced in ME2? I've never really seen it myself. ME1's story is incredibly straightforward in the end: Saren bad guy, stop Saren. The structure, lore and motivations behind the story are a bit more complex than in ME2 (Collectors are just basic faceless mooks), but ME2's more individual main episodes are IMO definitely no less nuanced or complex.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Hiatus! As will happen every month or so, got bored/annoyed at everything. So, open to suggestions of things that cost <$5 on Playstation or Steam.

 

[Dreiko]

Hiatus! As will happen every month or so, got bored/annoyed at everything. So, open to suggestions of things that cost <$5 on Playstation or Steam.

You like politically incorrect cartoony point and click adventure games? Cause the Deponia trilogy was on sale a while back and may still be, each of them just a single dollar. If you feel like something different, can't get much more different than that.

 

[BrawlMan]

Shadow of the Ninja Reborn Demo - Fun 2D action platformer, but it is tough like the original. The first boss killed me several times. It is a much more methodical ninja platformer compared to Ninja Gaiden or Shinobi.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Holy crap! Towerclimb is ridiculous! Managed to make it back to the heart after a couple of hours and this time I was able to appreciate just how absurd it is. There's this heat filter over everything and the screen is constantly shaking because of lava geysers exploding so you can barely see anything. As if that wasn't bad enough you have to dodge tiny pixels of lava and they are physics based so they don't always fall in the same spots. It sucks. I made it through 1 and a half levels, but I got a pixel of lava on me while hugging a wall so that was it. I think it's time to look up some spoilers.