US 2024 Presidential Election

BrawlMan

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As much as I like Janet, some celebrities really need to keep their mouths shut.



 

Asita

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The DM doesn't come close to knowing everything. If you ask say "how far can I jump?", you might have to cross-reference like 3 to 5 different things; I know this because my one character, I have to look this up like every time because I have several feats that affect jumping. If I ask the DM, he's just going to probably know the standard jumping rules and just say what those are. And then if you say you can jump across this thing (that's rather far), he'll ask "how?" and if you can't really explain it, then he's not gonna let you do that. It's not on the DM to know every single rule during a game or take time to thoroughly look up something every time something comes up. And jumping is a rather basic thing, there's so many other more complicated things. My analogy is apt. Again, it's like you all don't read what I say. I have said protections are discovered and sometimes society changes and people that read the same text read it differently than they did 100 years ago. Both happen so get that victim blaming bullshit out of my face.
My argument is not predicated on the DM knowing everything, nor does it even remotely imply that the DM would know everything.

What I'm pointing out is that you're drawing an analogy between a scenario in which a DM is either unaware of or has forgotten about the rulebook explicitly saying "you can do XYZ", and a scenario in which a law that had explicitly not been understood to apply in the manner being championed should be read as covering it (arguing that gay marriage must have been "in theory protected" under law despite the fact that at the time in question, not only was it considered legally valid to discriminate against people for being gay, being gay was treated as a crime worthy of prosecution in and of itself). My point is that those are very different situations that are not analogous.

You wanting to believe that you said something clever will not change that.

And how would overturning Obergefell cause RFMA to be deemed unconstitutional?
Because RFMA is predicated on the logic of Obergefell, that the Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was licensed and performed out-of-State. Overturning Obergefell would mean that that conclusion is declared legally invalid, that the state does not in fact required to license same sex marriage or to recognize such marriages as lawful.

Consequentially, this invalidates the RFMA, which codifies that same conclusion: all U.S. states and territories to recognize the validity of same-sex marriages (I.e., to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was licensed and performed out-of-State). Which is to say, that if Obergefell is determined to be invalid, then so too is the legislation that can be summed up as "what the Obergefell ruling said".

This isn't a difficult concept. If the SC rules, "No that ruling was wrong, states are not required to marry gay couples or recognize marriages between gay couples", that carries the impact of overturning the law saying that "states are required to marry gay couples and recognize marriages between gay couples". You might as well be asking why overturning Roe let states pass anti-abortion legislation, how the the ruling of the Dred Scott case overturned the Kansas-Nebraska Act.

Read the arguments for Roe and most of Obergefell and tell me those arguments aren't shit with a straight face.
You not liking the conclusions and wanting to think you're clever for disagreeing with them because you were fed strawman characterizations of the rulings by ideologues with an axe to grind, and which conspicuously omit that the ruling was explicitly a compromise position that tried to find a middle ground between competing interests, all to better spin it as ridiculous to people like yourself, does not mean that the arguments are shit.

That they don't make sense to you purely a function of you being too lazy to actually do your research and learn about the cases - much less develop an informed opinion on them - and having a chip on your shoulder that consistently results in you doubling down whenever someone tells you that your position is neither well informed nor well reasoned.

It's no surprise that they don't make sense to you, because you're arguing from a false premise after getting the basic facts wrong. You're doing the functional equivalent of arguing that 2 + 2 = 1 because you insist that the plus sign must actually be a division sign, and then refuse to listen to anyone when they point out that the equation is explicitly addition rather than division and that you simply misread it. Moreover, you're further insisting that it doesn't make sense for it to be addition because then the answer wouldn't be 1...when everyone's trying to explain to you why the answer is actually 4 in the first place.

And if you argue that declawing a cat is animal abuse and the court says that is animal abuse? You can't make a law like say animal abuse and detail every single thing that would be animal abuse.
That's the thing. US courts don't recognize it as such, though indications are that that is now changing, with New York being the first state to make declawing illegal just five years ago. So in that state, they are protected from being declawed under law. It is not the case in Illinois, for instance, where declawing is still legal. If at such time that declawing a cat becomes recognized by the courts as animal abuse, then that becomes a landmark case that reinterprets declawing as necessarily abuse, and protects future cats from being declawed moving forward. It did not protect cats from being declawed before then, because whether or not we would call it abuse today, it was not recognized as such in the past.

See again, my points about laws changing and about how protection under the law only applies after the law and courts recognize the issue as something to forbid, not before.

As another example, you might look at the concept of marital rape, which the law treated as a contradiction in terms until the 1970s. Before then, you were not legally protected from marital rape. This is not a difficult concept.

As I said in what you quoted "In the DnD example, was XYZ always protected or not until it was challenged? You can say it is both depending on how you're defining actively protected." It could be interpreted either way, I don't know how this is some big argument
Because, in no uncertain terms, you're simply wrong. It cannot be interpreted either way. That's a foundational principle of our legal system. I literally just explained this to you. Something is not illegal until the law declares it to be so. That's Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the Constitution: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." An action cannot be criminally punished if it was not considered a crime when the action was committed.

The corollary to this is that - because something something being protected under law means that what it protects against is illegal (see again discrimination against protected classes) - it is not protected until the law declares it to be so. If tomorrow, for some reason, the law were to say that the very act of keeping pets constituted animal cruelty, that would mean that animals were protected from being kept as pets from that day forward. It This does not mean that animals were in theory always protected from being pets but the act of keeping pets was never legally challenged. Protections apply from that point forward, not retroactively. That is not negotiable. And if you cannot understand something so simple, then frankly you have no business opining on the subject.
 
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tstorm823

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No, pay attention to what's being asked. I haven't seen anything saying it "must be returned by mail or in person to the county board of elections", or it's "illegal to transport it there by other means". I'm not necessarily saying no law says those things-- I cannot access the official site to check.

I just openly and quite politely asked you to provide it since I can't get it myself. I'm unsurprised that your first response is condescending dismissiveness and a misrepresentation of what I asked, but I'd still just like to see it please.
Let this be a lesson in how you come off: no question with italics inside parentheses listing in advance how you expect to be disappointed by the response has ever come across as simply a polite question. You're just getting your tone mirrored back at you.
" Such envelope shall then be securely sealed and the elector shall send same by mail, postage prepaid, except where franked, or deliver it in person to said county board of election. "
"A completed absentee ballot must be received in the office of the county board of elections no later than eight o'clock P.M. on the day of the primary or election. "

And then potential exceptions and corner cases get wordy, so it's easier to go from a different page:
"Can someone else return my ballot? No. The only exceptions are if you are a voter with a disability and have designated someone, in writing, to deliver your ballot, or if you need an emergency absentee ballot."

Now, where this will get contentious, if you read go to the second link there, you will see "Return your own ballot as soon as you receive it. Mail it or deliver it in person to your county board of elections office or other official location designated by your county board of elections." But if you read through the entire actual elections code in the first link, you will not find anything about "other official locations". It's not there. That isn't part of the law. That is now part of a PA Supreme Court decision based on the last elections allowing such locations to operate. And at this point, it may as well stand, I don't see anything specifically wrong with the practice itself, however:

1) Making voting easier in only places that vote overwhelmingly for your party is really scummy.
2) Violating the law flagrantly during elections is exactly the sort of thing that makes people doubt them.
3) Getting the courts to legislate your crimes away from the bench weakens the legitimacy of the courts.

If they wanted this rule changed for everyone, they could have. The PA legislature in 2019 had just passed new, easier voting rules with bipartisan support, and in response to the pandemic had passed motions through the legislature to do things like reschedule the primary. The PA Supreme Court even effectively says so in their decision: "This conclusion is largely the result of the clear legislative intent underlying Act 77, which animates much of this case, to provide electors with options to vote outside of traditional polling places." Which is to say, they ruled in a way they know extends beyond the words the legislature passed based on their belief that the legislature would agree to them. So why not involve the legislature? Why are counties making up their own election rules on the fly and then getting rubber stamped by other Democrats later? Because they wanted uneven rules to give them advantage in the election. The same reason they sued the Green Party off the ballot. The same reason the now US Secretary of Health rejected additional measures to help voting for the elderly, who were told to avoid public spaces during the election.

Drop boxes in Philly? Good for Democrats, allowed.
Drop boxes in assisted living facilities? Good for Republicans, we can't allow that.
 

tstorm823

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I was talking about the risks of zealous partisan activists inserting themselves into the election machinery. To which you wanted me to address a tangential issue of election observers in Philadelphia in 2020. This might be important to you, but you need to give others a reason for it to be important to them. The oblique approach you chose did not instill confidence there was much point there.

Basically, if you serve up a nothingburger, don't complain when someone tells you it's unsatisfying.
I was responding to a post where you said a small minority in the counting and election observers were sufficient protections (which I agree with), but is quite silly for you to say after defending them kicking out Republican observers 4 years ago. If you kick out the observers, they can't "keep an eye on the majority", can they?
 

Silvanus

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Let this be a lesson in how you come off
Lol, no. You've been one of the most condescending, denigrating users on this forum recently. I will take absolutely no lessons from you in how to come across because you don't come across well at all.

" Such envelope shall then be securely sealed and the elector shall send same by mail, postage prepaid, except where franked, or deliver it in person to said county board of election. "
"A completed absentee ballot must be received in the office of the county board of elections no later than eight o'clock P.M. on the day of the primary or election. "

And then potential exceptions and corner cases get wordy, so it's easier to go from a different page:
"Can someone else return my ballot? No. The only exceptions are if you are a voter with a disability and have designated someone, in writing, to deliver your ballot, or if you need an emergency absentee ballot."

Now, where this will get contentious, if you read go to the second link there, you will see "Return your own ballot as soon as you receive it. Mail it or deliver it in person to your county board of elections office or other official location designated by your county board of elections." But if you read through the entire actual elections code in the first link, you will not find anything about "other official locations". It's not there. That isn't part of the law.
That first quote there ~could~ mean satellite offices were disallowed, depending on those exceptions and corner cases and the surrounding context. The second quote there doesn't mean that at all.

Now, on the Pennsylvania government website (same one you've quoted below for clarity on those exceptions/corner cases), it also explicitly says the following:

"Satellite County Election Offices
Some county election boards might open satellite offices to offer county residents added convenience. These satellite locations may be open additional hours, including weeknights and weekends. Each satellite location has a secure ballot receptacle to store completed mail-in and absentee ballots submitted at the location. "

So if we're going by PA.gov, it's cut-and-dry that satellite offices and drop boxes are fine. You only really have a case if the Pennsylvania law explicitly forbids what the government itself is saying there in its own guidance, and makes no exceptions that cover the designation of sites aside from the county board of election. Unfortunately I still cannot access the PA Legis site, even via that link, so I'd appreciate a full (spoilered) copy of the exceptions/corner cases section if it's not too much of a faff.

I also find it pretty noteworthy that you consistently pick apart relative non-issues like improper designation of drop-off sites :eek: or food being available near offices :eek:, but haven't made a peep about Republican efforts in Pennsylvania to disenfranchise thousands of legal voters (Mike Kelly), or to illegally deny voters the right to know about rejection (Washington County).
 
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Agema

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but is quite silly for you to say after defending them kicking out Republican observers 4 years ago.
I don't really get what you are talking about. Problem is, I don't think you do, either.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Just flat-out evil.
If you vote for this, I genuinely hope your life is nothing but pain misery and regret.


The break down of Project 2025.

  1. ⁠⁠⁠Complete ban on abortions, without exceptions (pg. 449-503)
  2. ⁠⁠⁠End marriage equality (pg. 545-581) Elimination of unions and worker protections (pg. 581)
  3. ⁠⁠⁠Defund the FBI and Homeland Security (pg. 133)
  4. ⁠⁠⁠Eliminate federal agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA, and more (pg. 363-417)
  5. ⁠⁠⁠Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in “camps” like the German Nazis (pg. 133)
  6. ⁠⁠⁠End birthright citizenship (pg. 133)
  7. ⁠⁠⁠Cut Social Security (pg. 691)
  8. ⁠⁠⁠Cut Medicare (pg. 449)
  9. ⁠⁠⁠Eliminate the Department of Education (pg. 319)
  10. ⁠⁠⁠Mandatory Christian religious beliefs in public schools (pg. 319)
  11. ⁠⁠⁠Use public, taxpayer money for private religious schools (pg. 319)
  12. ⁠⁠⁠End the Affordable Care Act (pg. 449)
  13. ⁠⁠⁠Ban contraceptives (pg. 449)
  14. ⁠⁠⁠Additional tax breaks for corporations and the 1% (pg. 691)
  15. ⁠⁠⁠End civil rights & DEI protections in government (pg. 545-581)
  16. ⁠⁠⁠Ban African American and gender studies in all levels of education (pg. 319)
  17. ⁠⁠⁠End climate protections: (pg. 417)
  18. ⁠⁠⁠Increase Arctic drilling (pg. 363)
  19. ⁠⁠⁠Deregulate big business and the oil industry (pg. 363)
Stop with the lies and misinformation. Where on page 133 does the document say to end birthrate citizenship?


Those two statements aren't contradictory, and don't indicate any difference of position or argument. Do you have any understanding whatsoever of what you're discussing?
You can't say the constitution protects nothing, then say specifics in the constitution matter...

My argument is not predicated on the DM knowing everything, nor does it even remotely imply that the DM would know everything.

What I'm pointing out is that you're drawing an analogy between a scenario in which a DM is either unaware of or has forgotten about the rulebook explicitly saying "you can do XYZ", and a scenario in which a law that had explicitly not been understood to apply in the manner being championed should be read as covering it (arguing that gay marriage must have been "in theory protected" under law despite the fact that at the time in question, not only was it considered legally valid to discriminate against people for being gay, being gay was treated as a crime worthy of prosecution in and of itself). My point is that those are very different situations that are not analogous.

You wanting to believe that you said something clever will not change that.



Because RFMA is predicated on the logic of Obergefell, that the Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was licensed and performed out-of-State. Overturning Obergefell would mean that that conclusion is declared legally invalid, that the state does not in fact required to license same sex marriage or to recognize such marriages as lawful.

Consequentially, this invalidates the RFMA, which codifies that same conclusion: all U.S. states and territories to recognize the validity of same-sex marriages (I.e., to license a marriage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was licensed and performed out-of-State). Which is to say, that if Obergefell is determined to be invalid, then so too is the legislation that can be summed up as "what the Obergefell ruling said".

This isn't a difficult concept. If the SC rules, "No that ruling was wrong, states are not required to marry gay couples or recognize marriages between gay couples", that carries the impact of overturning the law saying that "states are required to marry gay couples and recognize marriages between gay couples". You might as well be asking why overturning Roe let states pass anti-abortion legislation, how the the ruling of the Dred Scott case overturned the Kansas-Nebraska Act.



You not liking the conclusions and wanting to think you're clever for disagreeing with them because you were fed strawman characterizations of the rulings by ideologues with an axe to grind, and which conspicuously omit that the ruling was explicitly a compromise position that tried to find a middle ground between competing interests, all to better spin it as ridiculous to people like yourself, does not mean that the arguments are shit.

That they don't make sense to you purely a function of you being too lazy to actually do your research and learn about the cases - much less develop an informed opinion on them - and having a chip on your shoulder that consistently results in you doubling down whenever someone tells you that your position is neither well informed nor well reasoned.

It's no surprise that they don't make sense to you, because you're arguing from a false premise after getting the basic facts wrong. You're doing the functional equivalent of arguing that 2 + 2 = 1 because you insist that the plus sign must actually be a division sign, and then refuse to listen to anyone when they point out that the equation is explicitly addition rather than division and that you simply misread it. Moreover, you're further insisting that it doesn't make sense for it to be addition because then the answer wouldn't be 1...when everyone's trying to explain to you why the answer is actually 4 in the first place.



That's the thing. US courts don't recognize it as such, though indications are that that is now changing, with New York being the first state to make declawing illegal just five years ago. So in that state, they are protected from being declawed under law. It is not the case in Illinois, for instance, where declawing is still legal. If at such time that declawing a cat becomes recognized by the courts as animal abuse, then that becomes a landmark case that reinterprets declawing as necessarily abuse, and protects future cats from being declawed moving forward. It did not protect cats from being declawed before then, because whether or not we would call it abuse today, it was not recognized as such in the past.

See again, my points about laws changing and about how protection under the law only applies after the law and courts recognize the issue as something to forbid, not before.

As another example, you might look at the concept of marital rape, which the law treated as a contradiction in terms until the 1970s. Before then, you were not legally protected from marital rape. This is not a difficult concept.



Because, in no uncertain terms, you're simply wrong. It cannot be interpreted either way. That's a foundational principle of our legal system. I literally just explained this to you. Something is not illegal until the law declares it to be so. That's Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the Constitution: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed." An action cannot be criminally punished if it was not considered a crime when the action was committed.

The corollary to this is that - because something something being protected under law means that what it protects against is illegal (see again discrimination against protected classes) - it is not protected until the law declares it to be so. If tomorrow, for some reason, the law were to say that the very act of keeping pets constituted animal cruelty, that would mean that animals were protected from being kept as pets from that day forward. It This does not mean that animals were in theory always protected from being pets but the act of keeping pets was never legally challenged. Protections apply from that point forward, not retroactively. That is not negotiable. And if you cannot understand something so simple, then frankly you have no business opining on the subject.
My statement about protections being discovered in the constitution was a general statement, it wasn't just about gay marriage. A DM is not going to allow you to do something (at least none of mine) out of the ordinary unless you can show why you can do it. If the DM and player doesn't know the rule (and it is a rule), then it will be discovered to be something you can do it when someone looks it up.

The legislature can just make a law, which is what they did. It doesn't matter if Obergefell is overturned. As long as the law isn't unconstitutional, which it's not, it doesn't matter. Congress can make an abortion law if they want and it won't be unconstitutional or matter that Roe go overturned. What are you going on about...? Read the actual arguments of these cases, most of them don't matter. Roe was based on right to privacy, that would mean you can't make any operation/medical treatment illegal because it's then a right to privacy issue and you can do anything thing you want essentially. Do you not understand how problematic that would be when applied to things other than abortion? Even RBG said it wasn't argued well. Most of Obergefell arguments were pointless talking about how marriage is the foundation of a family or a dignity issue, neither of those things matter because they are subjective concepts vs objective ones. Why don't you go up to Kurt Russell and tell him his family doesn't have good foundation because he never married or that his family lacks dignity, he'd probably punch you in the face.

Has anyone asked the Illinois court if declawing is considered animal abuse? You have to at least ask is what I'm saying. If it's not asked, it might be protected, it might not. It's like a kid not asking his parents if he could go to the park, they might say yes, but you have to ask first.

Law and interpretation of a law are 2 different things. In the cat declawing example, that definitely wasn't protected before there was an animal abuse law. But until you ask if declawing is considered animal abuse (once that law is in place), it's essentially up in the air.
 

Thaluikhain

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As much as I like Janet, some celebrities really need to keep their mouths shut.

"I was told"..."supposedly". Uh-huh.
 
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tstorm823

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I don't really get what you are talking about. Problem is, I don't think you do, either.
Oh, do you not remember insisting that observers didn't belong there?
Lol, no. You've been one of the most condescending, denigrating users on this forum recently. I will take absolutely no lessons from you in how to come across because you don't come across well at all.
Again, it's nothing but reflecting your own tone back at you. If you really feel that condescended to, that's the way you treat people all the time.
Now, on the Pennsylvania government website (same one you've quoted below for clarity on those exceptions/corner cases), it also explicitly says the following:...

so I'd appreciate a full (spoilered) copy of the exceptions/corner cases section if it's not too much of a faff.
Perhaps refrain from requesting more information until you've read the entire post you're responding to. Your biggest response was telling me thing I already knew, and you'd know I knew if you read the post.
...or to illegally deny voters the right to know about rejection (Washington County).
The law says that they can't start processing absentee ballots until election day. They cannot feasibly notify everyone whose ballots might be rejected in time for them to get to the polls to cast a provisional, that's not logistically possible. At issue is people rejected for specifically problems on the outside security envelope, but this county took "don't process until election day" to mean "don't process until election day".

It was in the primary election, no party gained advantage from it.
 

BrawlMan

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"I was told"..."supposedly". Uh-huh.
What pisses me off she does that to someone who is of the same race and shares the same race blacks do. That she takes the word of Trump/his supporters/"they say", instead of actually checking for herself. I thought I would never say this: "Fuck off on this one, Janet!".
 

Thaluikhain

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What pisses me off she does that to someone who is of the same race and shares the same race blacks do. That she takes the word of Trump/his supporters/"they say", instead of actually checking for herself. I thought I would never say this: "Fuck off on this one, Janet!".
Cynically, she might have checked for herself, and that's why she says "they say", because she knows she needs to add some weasel words because she knows she's lying.
 
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BrawlMan

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Cynically, she might have checked for herself, and that's why she says "they say", because she knows she needs to add some weasel words because she knows she's lying.
It's even more hypocritical, because she had no problem supporting Obama, nor denying/not knowing his race. What makes Kamala so different, and why is Janet scared acknowledge so? Unless Janet decided to be on Trump's payroll, she should not have anything fear. What are the Trump supporters/anti-Kamala fan going do to Janet? Hate her even more? I never thought I see the day where Taylor Swift has bigger ovaries than Janet. Nothing against Swift at all. Right now she's braver than Janet will ever be at this moment. And as much as I don't care about Beyonce's music anymore, she wasn't afraid to acknowledge those as black or sharing black heritage. Nor she would hide behind some pathetic excuse out of fear of people who hated her for her skin color and gender. Beyonce still fights and calls out systemic racism, sexism, and corrupt people in power.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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My statement about protections being discovered in the constitution was a general statement, it wasn't just about gay marriage. A DM is not going to allow you to do something (at least none of mine) out of the ordinary unless you can show why you can do it. If the DM and player doesn't know the rule (and it is a rule), then it will be discovered to be something you can do it when someone looks it up.
Like I said before, there's nothing being "discovered" in the constitution, it's being reinterpreted by the supreme court.

Saying something was "discovered" implies that the supreme court has no agency in a ruling, and that their hands are tied. It's something immutable that was found to have always been in the constitution and the supreme court must abide by it.

That is not what is happening, and I think that's already been successfully demonstrated to you.

Stop pretending that the supreme court is making discoveries as if they're archaeologists piecing together fragments of ancient lost documents. They are reading plain text and applying it in novel ways as they see fit.

The legislature can just make a law, which is what they did. It doesn't matter if Obergefell is overturned. As long as the law isn't unconstitutional, which it's not, it doesn't matter. Congress can make an abortion law if they want and it won't be unconstitutional or matter that Roe go overturned.
Who decides what is or isn't constitutional? The supreme court. What exactly would stop the supreme court from ruling that a federal law passed by congress making abortion legal in all 50 states is unconstitutional? They've already decided that abortion is a state level issue, and they could easily rule that congress doesn't have the ability to make a federal abortion law.
 
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Kwak

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Stop with the lies and misinformation. Where on page 133 does the document say to end birthrate citizenship?



You can't say the constitution protects nothing, then say specifics in the constitution matter...


My statement about protections being discovered in the constitution was a general statement, it wasn't just about gay marriage. A DM is not going to allow you to do something (at least none of mine) out of the ordinary unless you can show why you can do it. If the DM and player doesn't know the rule (and it is a rule), then it will be discovered to be something you can do it when someone looks it up.

The legislature can just make a law, which is what they did. It doesn't matter if Obergefell is overturned. As long as the law isn't unconstitutional, which it's not, it doesn't matter. Congress can make an abortion law if they want and it won't be unconstitutional or matter that Roe go overturned. What are you going on about...? Read the actual arguments of these cases, most of them don't matter. Roe was based on right to privacy, that would mean you can't make any operation/medical treatment illegal because it's then a right to privacy issue and you can do anything thing you want essentially. Do you not understand how problematic that would be when applied to things other than abortion? Even RBG said it wasn't argued well. Most of Obergefell arguments were pointless talking about how marriage is the foundation of a family or a dignity issue, neither of those things matter because they are subjective concepts vs objective ones. Why don't you go up to Kurt Russell and tell him his family doesn't have good foundation because he never married or that his family lacks dignity, he'd probably punch you in the face.

Has anyone asked the Illinois court if declawing is considered animal abuse? You have to at least ask is what I'm saying. If it's not asked, it might be protected, it might not. It's like a kid not asking his parents if he could go to the park, they might say yes, but you have to ask first.

Law and interpretation of a law are 2 different things. In the cat declawing example, that definitely wasn't protected before there was an animal abuse law. But until you ask if declawing is considered animal abuse (once that law is in place), it's essentially up in the air.
It's one of Trumps policies for fucks sake.


In 2023, Trump campaign officials acknowledged the Project 2025 aligned well with Agenda 47.[18] Project 2025 has, as of June 2024, reportedly caused some annoyance in the Trump campaign which had historically preferred fewer and more vague policy proposals to limit opportunities for criticism and maintain flexibility.[15] Some commentators have argued that Project 2025 is the most detailed look at what a Trump administration would look like.[15] Agenda 47 and Project 2025 share many themes and policies, including expanding presidential power such as through reissuing Schedule F,[19]: min.00:14 [20] cuts to the Department of Education, mass deportations of illegal immigrants,[21] the death penalty for drug dealers, and using the US National Guard in liberal cities with high crime rates or those that are "disorderly".[22][23][24]

The plans include constructing "freedom cities" on empty federal land, investing in flying car manufacturing, introducing baby bonuses to encourage a baby boom, implementing protectionist trade policies, and over forty others. Seventeen of the policies that Trump says he will implement if elected would require congressional approval. Some of his plans are legally controversial, such as ending birthright citizenship, and may require amending the U.S. Constitution.[25][14][26]
 
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Silvanus

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You can't say the constitution protects nothing, then say specifics in the constitution matter...
I can quite easily say that the Constitution alone doesn't protect anything, and then say the contents of the Constitution have an impact (though not the sole or primary impact) on how likely it is that justices will protect something. That's entirely consistent.
 
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Silvanus

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Perhaps refrain from requesting more information until you've read the entire post you're responding to. Your biggest response was telling me thing I already knew, and you'd know I knew if you read the post.
I did read the entire post. You may think it set everything to rights, but it clearly doesn't. You said there were exceptions and corner cases, and posted a section from PA.gov instead of the legislation to summarise-- which would be fine, if not for the fact that PA.gov also very explicitly says satellite offices are absolutely fine, so it supports me.

So, we need to look at the legislation text itself to see whether the government's own guidance is illegal.

The law says that they can't start processing absentee ballots until election day. They cannot feasibly notify everyone whose ballots might be rejected in time for them to get to the polls to cast a provisional, that's not logistically possible. At issue is people rejected for specifically problems on the outside security envelope, but this county took "don't process until election day" to mean "don't process until election day".
I don't care much about your excuses, or your misrepresentation of what happened as merely following the rules. They're legally obliged to do something. Republican county didn't. Resulting in eligible, valid voters not counted.
 
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Gergar12

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Smart politically with the I am a gun owner message, but the specific gun buyback program is just going to get knowledgeable gun owners to sell guns that are lower in market value than the gun buyback fixed incentive. They need to analyze each, and every gun with hopefully a ChatGPT for gun value or some sort of website or database.

Or else some people will sell 3D-printed guns that look non-3D-printed and earn a profit from them, some of which will be used for ammunition or perhaps another gun like a pistol or semi-automatic AR-15.

The reason Australia's worked was that it was a very large program, happened nationwide, and you had no choice legally for many of the gun types depending on who you were, so it was selling or hiding them in a dug hole and then filling it up.
 

tstorm823

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...if not for the fact that PA.gov also very explicitly says satellite offices are absolutely fine, so it supports me.
That page was posted this year. We're talking about events from 4 years ago.
So, we need to look at the legislation text itself to see whether the government's own guidance is illegal.
You really don't, it's a fine summary. All you are missing is pages and pages of repeated language about people with such and such disabilities can sign a declaration (which they put the full text of every time its mentioned) allowing someone to assist them, or deliver for them, or basically any step along the way.
They're legally obliged to do something.
Yes, they are legally obliged to do this:
(5) Ballots received whose applications have been challenged and ballots which have been challenged shall be placed unopened in a secure, safe and sealed container in the custody of the county board until it shall fix a time and place for a formal hearing of all such challenges, and notice shall be given where possible to all absentee electors and mail-in electors thus challenged and to every individual who made a challenge. The time for the hearing shall not be later than seven (7) days after the deadline for all challenges to be filed. On the day fixed for said hearing, the county board shall proceed without delay to hear said challenges, and, in hearing the testimony, the county board shall not be bound by the Pennsylvania Rules of Evidence. The testimony presented shall be stenographically recorded and made part of the record of the hearing.
The legally required process for fixing ballot rejections takes place after the ballots are counted. The lawsuit is people who made errors on the outside of the envelope that contains their ballot, and then went to the polls to ask if their ballot was rejected to try and vote provisionally in person. That is an odd situation to begin with, to vote by mail even though you can make it to the polls, and to believe in advance of notice that your ballot will be rejected.
 

Silvanus

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That page was posted this year. We're talking about events from 4 years ago.
Lol so what? Did the law change significantly after 2020 in such a way to allow satellite offices, meaning the government's guidance is inapplicable before that change?

You really don't, it's a fine summary. All you are missing is pages and pages of repeated language about people with such and such disabilities can sign a declaration (which they put the full text of every time its mentioned) allowing someone to assist them, or deliver for them, or basically any step along the way.
OK, if you're insistent that PA.gov is a sufficient and accurate description of the law as it stands, then the issue is settled and satellite offices/drop boxes are fine.

Yes, they are legally obliged to do this
This matter has already been settled in court. They acted illegally, and you have zero issue with electoral lawbreaking when it suits you, but will quibble about utter non-issues like food being nearby.
 
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