US 2024 Presidential Election

tstorm823

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Hence the benefit of providing more clarity-- though you seem to also have a problem with them doing that, and just want the more restrictive interpretation to have been imposed, making it harder for everyone and presumably disenfranchising those who used the method in good faith.
Did you miss the parts where I said it'd be fine if they passed it before election season, and mentioned that the legislature had already made covid related election changes for the state, and the court ruling was partially based on the premise that there was the political will to allow this sort of thing, and that now that its established for everyone it's perfectly fair? Did you actually miss me saying all of those things?
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I think Kamala will be a continuation of the Biden regime. A weaponized justice system persecuting its political rivals while ignoring far worse transgressions of their own members. An FBI that colludes with social media to censor stories unfavorable to the regime. An establishment that colludes with private companies to get the disobedient fired. Contempt for fair elections and the rule of law as they see it as an impediment to their designs. Scary stuff.
If you find those things as concerning as you claim then you should probably be aware that Trump has explicitly promised to do all of those things in his second term. Is that a problem or is it only "scary stuff" when you think Democrats are the ones doing it, but you're fine if it's a Republican?
 
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Hades

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think Kamala will be a continuation of the Biden regime. A weaponized justice system persecuting its political rivals while ignoring far worse transgressions of their own members
So why are the Democrats to blame for Trump being procetuted for doing crimes, and not Trumps fault for doing the crimes?

What’s so special about Trump that judges are obligated to ruffle his hair and call him a lovable scamp whenever he does crimes?

It should also be pointed out that fir someone who did a coup he got off extremely mild.
 
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Hades

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Contempt for fair elections and the rule of law as they see it as an impediment to their designs. Scary stuff.
Aren’t it the Republicans who hold fair elections in contempt given that last time they automatically wanted to replace the election outcome with Donald Trump, and crown him as an illegitimate president?
 
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Agema

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I think elites are attracted to Communism and Fascism as they are about totalitarian control, which they find attractive.
Donald Trump IS the elite. He is more the elite than any president in my living memory with the possible exception of George Bush Jnr. He's inherited his vast wealth from a phenomenally rich businessman father, who in turn was himself the beneficiary of an exceedingly rich father. He is backed by a huge range of the elites. He happily dumped the rich business elites into government or state roles: his own family and Jared Kushner? Anthony Scaramucci? Gordon Sondland? He's even now telling you that he'd like to offer a major government role to a guy who is (depending on share price) pretty much the richest man in the world. His VP is the scion of a load of mega-rich tech barons like Peter Thiel. His Project 2025 campaign and the wider Party was written in large part with the support of a think tank funded up the wazoo by billionaires.

Thus it's just insane for any Trump supporter to complain about "the elites". The only thing I'd grant is that the Democrats are to a large extent also in the pockets of the elites.

What you really mean by "communist" and "fascist" is "authoritarian". Again, I would draw your attention to Donald Trump open admiration and self-declared good relations with the likes of Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping and Kim Jong Un - remembering of course the latter two lead actual communist parties. Or Viktor Orban, obviously authoritarian, who has openly supported illiberalism, and been vigorously feted not just by Trump but by the wider Republican party.

Trump stacked the Supreme Court. This is classic authoritarianism. Project 2025 - embedded into his campaign and plans despite his denials - involves a substantial part dedicated to amassing power in the hands of the president and reducing insitutional checks and balances. This is also classic authoritarianism. Trump and his staffers have announced they are going to set the DoJ on a bewildering range of opponents, officials and others. This is authoritarianism. Then there's his long campaign to overturn the 2020 election and deny democratic choice - very authoritarian. You can find all sorts of quotations from Trump 2017-2020 where he seems confused and frustrated that he can't just order things to happen because he thinks as president he should be allowed to do that rather than go through proper process. You just need to look at his conduct as a businessman, even down to his "You're fired!" catchphrase, all of which typify the sort of dictatorial power that a billionaire owner of a private company might have.

You may be right and maybe the elites are attracted to authoritarianism. But the apex of that inclination in US politics is... Donald Trump. Given his overt authoritarian leanings and happy association with authoritarians, it is just bizarre to deploy it as an argument against Harris.

However, a lot of Americans actually like authoritarianism... just so long as its the right type of authoritarianism. MAGA has a mile-wide streak of authoritarianism, that's why they love the idea of a crusading Donald Trump overturning democratic checks and balances and saying he'll wave magic executive power wands and just make things happen, rigging the Supreme Court and setting the DoJ on all their petty hates. MAGA love the idea of forcing teachers and academics to teach what MAGA thinks people should learn, muzzling any media to the left of Fox News, banning non-approved books, restricting transexuals and homosexuals, and on and on. Trump is talking about punishing companies for disobedience: "move production to the USA or I make your business unviable", presumably to the cheers of his supporters.

MAGA also talk a lot about freedom. What they mean is their freedom, to do as they please and have society ordered as they want it, and all those other annoying opinions and beliefs locked away in a box out of public sight or punishable by law. In the 1930s lots of Germans, as long as they believed the same sorts of things as the Nazis, were free: because they weren't the undesirables that Nazis hated and didn't do the things Nazis proscribed they had the freedoms they wanted, and everything felt fine. That, to a large extent, is akin to the MAGA movement: authoritarian-inclined people supporting an authoritarian as president because he's not attacking any of their cherished freedoms.

I think Kamala will be a continuation of the Biden regime. A weaponized justice system persecuting its political rivals...
You mean like Donald Trump has explicitly and repeatedly insisted the DoJ under him will do? And it's not a new thing. When he was trying to persuade Zelenskyy to start an investigation into Biden in Ukraine, that might not have been the DoJ, but what do you think he was doing there? What do you think he was encouraging when he was getting crowds to chant "Lock her up" about Hillary Clinton? What about when he was telling the AG to investigate election fraud and raging at him for refusing when the AG said there was no evidence?

So is weaponising the DoJ a bad thing, or is it not?

Because if it's a bad thing, you should be telling Trump to shut his fucking trap, ensure the AG and DoJ is ringfenced from political interference.

Sheer hypocrisy.
 

gorfias

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If you find those things as concerning as you claim then you should probably be aware that Trump has explicitly promised to do all of those things in his second term. Is that a problem or is it only "scary stuff" when you think Democrats are the ones doing it, but you're fine if it's a Republican?
Links please.
EDIT: Where I live, I see non-stop adds about, "Trump and his Project 2025". I have never, ever, heard him ever endorse it or claim to have anything to do with it.
Aren’t it the Republicans who hold fair elections in contempt given that last time they automatically wanted to replace the election outcome with Donald Trump, and crown him as an illegitimate president?
My understanding is the deep state did everything they could to avoid actually speaking about the merits of the cases brought about 2020.
Example discussion:
 

Agema

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Do you understand that posting about the value of a present minority and official observers in one post while arguing that satellite election offices that people can vote at aren't legally defined polling places so neither of those things are required makes it look like you're making both arguments in bad faith?
Maybe it's not my bad faith, but you being too keen to score points.

Whether satellite election offices are legally regarded as polling places or not is a matter of fact. If they are not, poll watchers have no right to demand access and that's the reality to address. If you want to talk about whether satellite election offices should have poll watchers, that's a different matter and lies undiscussed.
 
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Agema

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I think Kamala will be a continuation of the Biden regime. A weaponized justice system persecuting its political rivals while ignoring far worse transgressions of their own members. An FBI that colludes with social media to censor stories unfavorable to the regime. An establishment that colludes with private companies to get the disobedient fired. Forever wars in which we should not be involved and are typically lied into said involvement. Contempt for fair elections and the rule of law as they see it as an impediment to their designs. Scary stuff.
And next, what makes you think Trump is any different?

Firstly, when it is said Trump's supporters "take him seriously but not literally", this is a bit like supporting Schrodinger's policy. By which I mean it is his supporters granting themselves the right to not have to care whether any policy he advocates is going to happen or not. Project 2025 appears to be composed by a load of Trump's team and baked into Trump's campaign, but Trump says it is trash. So... what is true? This is again hypocrisy: for Trump supporters to grant themselves freedom from having to believe anything their candidate says, and then say they don't know what Harris stands for.

Colluding with private companies to get the disobedient fired? What gives you any impression Trump will be any different? What policy has he ever said that makes you believe he will stick up for worker rights? Bearing in mind here, he already has a four-year track record, and he was exceptionally friendly to the preferences of the business elites over the workers. He made it easier for businesses to poison their workers and communities, to fire them, to restrict bargaining power for better wages and conditions, and much more. I had a look at "The American Workforce Policy Advisory Board" his administration set up to discuss worker education and retraining (in spoiler). Highly salient in there is that there's barely anyone representing workers. It's a talking shop for CEOs.

Co-chaired by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and Advisor to the President Ivanka Trump, members of the Advisory Board include:

Walter Bumphus, President & CEO, American Association of Community Colleges
Jim Clark, President & CEO, Boys & Girls Clubs of America
Tim Cook, CEO, Apple
Tom Donohue, CEO, U.S. Chamber of Commerce
Marillyn Hewson, Executive Chairman, Lockheed Martin
Eric Holcomb, Governor, Indiana
Barbara Humpton, President and CEO, Siemens USA
Al Kelly, Chairman and CEO, Visa
Sean McGarvey, President, North America’s Building Trades Unions
Doug McMillon, President & CEO, Walmart
Michael Piwowar, Executive Director, Milken Institute
Scott Pulsipher, President, Western Governors University
Kim Reynolds, Governor, Iowa
Ginni Rometty, Executive Chairman, IBM
Scott Sanders, Executive Director, National Association of State Workforce Agencies
Robert Smith, Founder, Chairman & CEO, Vista Equity Partners
Julie Sweet, CEO, Accenture
Johnny C. Taylor, Jr., President & CEO, Society for Human Resource Management
Sebastian Thrun, Founder, President, and Executive Chairman, Udacity
Jay Timmons, President & CEO, National Association of Manufacturers
Marianne Wanamaker, Professor, University of Tennessee

Contempt for elections? Again, viewing what Trump attempted to pull in 2020, it is staggering to think anyone should condemn anyone else for it. Should a president really be phoning state officials to pressure them into finding as many votes as needed to hand him the win based off no evidence, or inciting mobs to attack Congress? Contempt for law? No matter how you feel about the Jan 6th riot, hundreds of people assaulted the police and sacked the Capitol. These are criminal. What does it say about Law for Trump to pardon them - which he says he will do - because they did it in his name?

* * *

I have no problem with the basic idea that conservatives want to vote in the closest thing they have to a conservative, and that's Trump. Fine. If you really want someone you think is going to crack down on immgration and Trump sounds more the guy to do it, fine. If you think transexuals and abortion should be banned, universities prevented from teaching courses about women and ethnic minorities and Trump's more likely to do it, fine.

What I don't get are the other bizarre claims and accusations thrown at Harris or stated in support of Trump which are not reasonably defensible or gross hypocrisy.
 
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Silvanus

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Did you miss the parts where I said it'd be fine if they passed it before election season, and mentioned that the legislature had already made covid related election changes for the state, and the court ruling was partially based on the premise that there was the political will to allow this sort of thing, and that now that its established for everyone it's perfectly fair? Did you actually miss me saying all of those things?
No, and not a one of them is relevant.
 
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tstorm823

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If you want to talk about whether satellite election offices should have poll watchers, that's a different matter and lies undiscussed.
My opinion is pretty clear, elections are better when transparent. What is your opinion?
 

Piscian

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Theres a thin line between transparency and an invasion of privacy.

Anyyyyhoo. So I was correct so correcting my correction - There was indeed a shareholder sell off which drove DTJM stock down below $12. We just didn't see it because the disclosure wasn't made public until this morning. The shareholders I mentioned Trump sued and lost sold $100 million worth of shares.


In other news DJTM bounced back over the last few days to $15.

Screenshot_20240927-122527.png

Im once again flummoxed, but maybe I attribute that being a bit biased. Though I can't specifically attribute this new interest in the stock to any one source of news Trump has had a better couple days this week.

Theres been a general concern that Trump isn't campaigning enough so he gave a speech Tuesday about his plans to drive domestic manufacturing. He did manage to get on TV with Ukrainian president Zelenski.

I could make all kinds of snarky quips about it but Ill refrain. The point Im making is "something" is causing excitement in Trump land.

I don't profess to be clairvoyant, but idk I think something is coming over the horizon that insiders know enough mark DTJM as a soft "buy".

r/dataisbeautiful posted this chart today point out theres a 74% correlation between Trumps poll numbers and his stock value.

Screenshot_20240927-094202.png

When his stock is "buy" voters are leaning his way or not far behind.

Id keep eye out over the next 5 days. I don't want to stress anybody out, but I think it would behoove Harris to get herself out there and get some memes going.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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Perennial fountain of bad quotes JD Vance worried at a 2013 Senate hearing that safety seats for children were keeping Americans from having children.


"In particular, there's evidence that the car seat rules that we've imposed, which of course I want kids to drive in car seats, have driven down the number of babies born in this country by over 100,000. So as we think about how to make kids safe here, I think we should do it in a way that's accommodating to American families."
1) What's this evidence? I bet it's hilarious.

2) Why, precisely, is Vance so terrified that Americans aren't having enough children? Is it the typical Christian busybody-ism needing everyone to "live the right way", the classic "we need more soldiers to keep the savages from our doorstep", or a need to validate his own decision to have children?

3) Car seats? Seriously?!
 
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BrawlMan

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gorfias

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And next, what makes you think Trump is any different?
We were told that if Trump won 2016, which he did, his policies would be ruinous to our economy. They weren't. They were great.

Sure, he threw shade at Clinton's apparent evil and criminality. But I don't think he ever really intended she pay criminal penalties. Neither for Biden's apparent corruption in Ukraine getting a prosecutor fired. He just wanted to embarrass the crap out of the old senile crook.

But 2 weeks after Eric Adams criticizes the Biden/Harris regime, FBI raids him and he is under criminal charges.

This is tangibly different than what Trump did and l think, will do if in power.

Firstly, when it is said Trump's supporters "take him seriously but not literally", this is a bit like supporting Schrodinger's policy. By which I mean it is his supporters granting themselves the right to not have to care whether any policy he advocates is going to happen or not. Project 2025 appears to be composed by a load of Trump's team and baked into Trump's campaign, but Trump says it is trash. So... what is true? This is again hypocrisy: for Trump supporters to grant themselves freedom from having to believe anything their candidate says, and then say they don't know what Harris stands for.

Colluding with private companies to get the disobedient fired? What gives you any impression Trump will be any different? What policy has he ever said that makes you believe he will stick up for worker rights? Bearing in mind here, he already has a four-year track record, and he was exceptionally friendly to the preferences of the business elites over the workers. He made it easier for businesses to poison their workers and communities, to fire them, to restrict bargaining power for better wages and conditions, and much more. I had a look at "The American Workforce Policy Advisory Board" his administration set up to discuss worker education and retraining (in spoiler). Highly salient in there is that there's barely anyone representing workers. It's a talking shop for CEOs.


Contempt for elections? Again, viewing what Trump attempted to pull in 2020, it is staggering to think anyone should condemn anyone else for it. Should a president really be phoning state officials to pressure them into finding as many votes as needed to hand him the win based off no evidence, or inciting mobs to attack Congress? Contempt for law? No matter how you feel about the Jan 6th riot, hundreds of people assaulted the police and sacked the Capitol. These are criminal. What does it say about Law for Trump to pardon them - which he says he will do - because they did it in his name?

* * *

I have no problem with the basic idea that conservatives want to vote in the closest thing they have to a conservative, and that's Trump. Fine. If you really want someone you think is going to crack down on immgration and Trump sounds more the guy to do it, fine. If you think transexuals and abortion should be banned, universities prevented from teaching courses about women and ethnic minorities and Trump's more likely to do it, fine.

What I don't get are the other bizarre claims and accusations thrown at Harris or stated in support of Trump which are not reasonably defensible or gross hypocrisy.
Trump's best chance of winning so wide a spread that even the Left cannot steal the election is to keep on pointing out: he was already POTUS and he was great.

We've had 4 years of agony. Potentially WW3, the Afghan withdrawal disaster, the broken promise to shut down the virus, not the country, the weakening dollar, the treachery at our border at which I don't think they are AWOL but betraying us?

Mostly the MSM that went along with all of this, telling us Trump was a disaster and that things would be soooo much better under Biden? They lied. Hopefully in November, the US says in one voice, we're sick of being lied to and betrayed. Enough. Vote MAGA across the board.
 

Seanchaidh

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Oh, you consider "Ukrainian independence along the borders of the Ukrainian SSR" to reasonably include direct control by the Russian Federation, do you?

Now that's a tremendously bizarre understanding of 'independence', though quite on brand.
It's odd, you appear to know how to read, and then you say shit like this.
 

Thaluikhain

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2) Why, precisely, is Vance so terrified that Americans aren't having enough children? Is it the typical Christian busybody-ism needing everyone to "live the right way", the classic "we need more soldiers to keep the savages from our doorstep", or a need to validate his own decision to have children?
Need more natives, to compete with immigrants, presumably.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Trump insists that he could broker a "deal" that would be "good for both Ukraine and Russia".


The only deal that would be good for Ukraine is for Russia to pull its forces out to Ukraine's internationally-recognized borders, and that would be ruinous for Russia. Of course, Trump also believes that Ukraine is "demolished" and its people are "dead", and that Zelensky should have "made concessions" with Putin rather than resist his invasion.

Because that's how you deal with a foreign invader in Trump's world: You bargain. (At least if the foreign invader is a strongman that Trump admires.)
 
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