US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
- Start date
Well for the robber barons in the Kremlin rather than the country itself. For the state as a whole going back to the pre 2020 state of getting filthy rich from the gass trade would be an improvement. Especially if those funds end up being used on the county instead of just vanishing in an olicharch’ pockets.
You dredged up one offhand comment from years ago to make a song and dance about, so surely you can remember something I express repeatedly.
Okay, I think there's a lot of nuance there, but it is at least a reasonable point that the Trump economy (Covid aside) went fine.
You mean Trump wanted to embarrass his most likely opponent for the 2020 election. Like the underhanded crook that Trump is. And here's another thing to understand about Trump: the insults he flings out at others are nearly always the things where he's even more at fault: many of Trump's attack on others are just varied retorts of "No, you are" except without good evidence. That Biden is a crook is a classic example.
So, where's the evidence for Biden being a crook? I would point out that the Republican-dominated House of Representatives has spent years digging away trying to show improper conduct, and so far have nothing. Trump, however, is a convicted felon. He has been convicted of fraud multiple times: deliberately misvaluing his assets, misuse of a charity, a bogus "university", and a wide array of other offences across the decades. That's without even addressing cases currently in process, where at least one - improperly retaining confidential files - he incredibly obviously did. Trump supporters have absolutely no business calling any other candidate a "crook" without having to face up to decades of illegality by their own.
4 years of agony? No you haven't. This is an incredible, staggering insult to all the people in the world undergoing crisis. Ukrainians are in agony. Venezualans are in agony. Palestinians are in agony. Myanmarese are in agony. Talking this way is treating a stubbed toe as if your leg was chopped off. The economy is growing, unemployment is low, the USA isn't at war, crime is decreasing, etc. People feel pain because of a cost of living problem due to an inflation spike, caused by decreased production during Covid catching up with the global economy and the Russia-Ukraine war. The whole world has sucked that inflation up too, and most developed countries have done worse than the USA. Neither of those causes of inflation are Biden's fault. And if you do want to blame Biden, then it's only fair Trump takes the blame for the Covid-19 recession.
Ah, the Afghan withdrawal disaster. That's an interesting one, because who's plan was it? Oh yes, Trump's. He signed the agreement to leave (without bothering to check with the Afghan government). To sweeten the deal, he released 5,000 captured Taliban fighters and pulled out a load of US troops. Almost immediately, the Taliban ignored their part of the deal and started ramping up attacks on the Afghan government forces, which the Trump administration did nothing about. That's the situation that Biden inherited. I don't mind Biden being criticised for failings here. I do mind people not acknowledging that the mess was started and mishandled by Trump, with both a poor agreement and failure to react when the Taliban did not honour their side of the deal. So Trump deserves a big part of the blame.
The other issue I have here is you talk about these "forever wars", because you're trying to have your cake and eat it. You want to complain about US servicemen getting stuck in endless foreign conflicts... and then condemn Biden for going through with exiting one. Bear in mind here that because of the way the Afghan government forces unravelled, the only way that withdrawal was not going to be a clusterfuck would have been for the USA to commit forces against the Taliban, which necessarily would have meant cancelling the pull-out. Secondly, regarding "forever wars", the current Biden administration actually has the lowest commitment of US forces globally in decades. Lower than Trump managed. Where's his credit for this? You claim this is what you want, and yet are refusing to give credit to the more successful president.
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Shocking, Harris is on board with Israel leveling six apartment buildings to take out one dude.
If anyone somehow still thinks she'll be different than Biden on letting Israel do whatever the fuck they want, this should remind you that she bends the knee to Israel too
Hassan Nasrallah wasn't killed for anything he did wrong. He was killed for what he did right.
In any case, carpet bombing Martha's Vineyard would surely have a better guilty to innocent kill ratio than Beirut.
You may not find this a final proof, but that it happened at all is evidence of corruption and criminality.
Those covid related harms to the economy were radically exacerbated by Biden's betrayal re: shutting down the virus not the country. Had the Democrats not "fortified" 2020 and Trump allowed to remain in office, I don't think those harms would have been realized. But Trump is taking the, IMHO, wrong track saying Biden did worse on Covid than he did when I think he should be arguing that he would have ended it without additional relief spending, rather, sending people back to work.
As for agony, just because others have things worse doesn't mean I can't look at my own society and see so much wrong. I personally took 3 clot shots, that can kill me, as at a minimum, I faced incredible hardships if I did not. My son, who is very healthy, no co-morbidities, and had natural immunity, was also coerced to do so as well.
The people of my nation should be realizing greater wealth, peace an prosperity. Instead, relative to inflation, I am poorer. What is happening to our housing market is an outrage. Our border crisis is an existential one. We will not survive this if we don't get someone in office that actually wants to secure our border. The establishment did try to pass a border bill opposed by Trump but he charges, and I buy, that it was just a distraction 3.5 years into the crisis they made. Elect Trump and even without additional legislation, the border will be secured.
Trump says the fault lays with Biden. That Biden doesn't understand you don't make an agreement with these people and then unilaterally go back on your word, which is what Biden allegedly did. I'd read that Trump's withdrawal was to be much faster than Bidens while NOT leaving $80 billion in weapons behind for our adversaries. Biden wanted the withdrawal to end on 9/11 for symbolic reasons.
Well he's President of the United States. That's pretty conclusive.
Apart from that, he's a serial liar which is circumstantial evidence of crookedness. He has engaged in the legal forms of receiving bribes; he was not called the Senator from MBNA for nothing. He is not terribly abnormal for a US politician in this regard, but he's definitely not 'clean'.
You appear to have provided evidence of the corruption and criminality of a Ukrainian prosecutor. Just to be clear here, European and American diplomats had been calling for that proseutor's removal for months before Biden stepped in, and it appears senior Republican politicians in the Senate were aware and supportive of those efforts.
Trump's an empty braggart. He handed the Taliban back 5,000 of their fighters and let them ride roughshod over Afghanistan.
The USA didn't leave anything remotely close to $80 billion in weapons. $80 billion is the figure the USA spent training and equipping the Afghan army over the last 20 years. Because it includes training, a lot of that cost isn't equipment. Secondly, there was no way of getting it back because it was the property of the Afghan military.
Secondly, Trump was clueless. For instance, this is one thing Trump attempted to do: after he lost the election, he issued a half-arsed order for an abrupt pullout that would definitely have left a ton of hardware, because there wasn't remotely enough time to move it. As it was, he reduced US presence to a level that effectively left it powerless to influence events further.
“Allowed to remain in office”. Now that’s a fun sentiment. “Oh if Only Trump could be president without a popular and electoral mandate”.
Trump is not a popular politician nor an effective President. In 2016 he won by the skin of his teeth and only because the US has a system where the vote can be bypassed and the losing candidate be crowned the winner just for marginally outperforming their rival in a few locations.
As such it’s always bizarre to hear people insist Trump couldn’t possibly have been rejected by the voters.
Ah yes that one. Well Agama already pointed out why that argument doesn’t work.
Just as interesting is the concept of”Lawfare”. Because Trumps response to Biden doing what he was supposed to do, was to weaponize his office to try and blackmail Ukraine to investigate his personal rival.
Why is this not “lawfare”?
Compare the number of people who died from the vaccines to the number who died from covid. I'm on 5 or 6 (can't remember), and because my nation was keen on the vaccine we don't have the absurd number of deaths the US had.
Getting vaccinated is not an attack on your civil rights. Hell, you said you were ex-military, did you throw a hissy fit over getting vaccinated then, or is it just because it's become a far-right shibboleth that you're doing it now?
No. That's a lie.
EDIT: People have been making a fuss about the US's southern border for generations, and yet the US still exists. It will continue to exist after the next few election cycles regardless of whether they've got adequate numbers of Neo-Nazis at the border, barring unrelated problems.
EDIT EDIT: And it also seems that you've quieted moved on from claiming Trump isn't one of the "elite" when challenged on it.
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That has always been the cope. "Others wanted that prosecutor gone!" That isn't evidence that Biden wasn't engaged in tag team criminality with his family. It makes me ask who these people were. What would an investigation of them find?
Trump says Gen. Miley told him it was just easier to leave them behind, to which Trump had harsh public words for him.
Glad he put a fire under their butts to end this evil nonsense.
Eh, I still think the election stolen in 2020. At a minimum, it was as they admit, "fortified".
Because no one was charged or arrested. I can concede it was wrong to do. But compare with what is happening today.
Mayor Adams criticizes the border crisis and two weeks later he is raided by the FBI. This was not a coincidence.
When joining the military, one is told that they are volunteering to be a piece of state property. I knew a guy sanctioned for getting so seriously sunburned that he needed time off from duty to recover. The grounds of the punishment were destruction of government property.
But to use an extreme for illustration, suppose you were ordered to drink Koolaid with cyanide in it. You're given reasons that it may not kill you, but will keep you from spreading the virus to others. I would find that illustration a civil rights violation. To a lesser extent, that's what they did.
Guy jumps off a 50 story building. As his body passes the 25th floor, he is over heard saying, "so far so good."
Back in the 1960s, communists had a plan to destroy the US by capsizing it, making its social safety net go bankrupt. Definitely seems to be the plan.
The guy in the gumball video refers to elites that want this flood of immigrants. Does that describe Trump? I think not.
Poll: Democrats' advantage with Latino voters continues to shrink
Harris leads Trump nationally among Latinos, 54% to 40%, but Democrats’ edge is at its lowest level in the last four presidential cycles.
Harris trolls Trump during Georgia-Alabama game after rally insults : Live
Trump and Walz attended separate college football games on Saturday night, with the former president watching Alabama-Georgia
www.independent.co.uk
Conservative Christians were skeptical of mail-in ballots. Now they are gathering them in churches
Conservative Christian churches in California and prominent figures around the United States like activist Charlie Kirk are urging congregations to get involved in ballot gathering or ballot harvesting.
apnews.com
Trump continues to warn about election 'cheating.' His supporters are ready to move on
Several Michigan supporters of former President Donald Trump told the Free Press they'll accept the 2024 election results even if Trump won't.
www.freep.com
No. That is not remotely comparable.
It's quite a change from "elite" to "elite that wants the US flooded with immigrants", Ok, the latter doesn't describe Trump...but it hardly describes many others either.
There's no plan by people in the US to destroy the working class or whatever by letting immigrants in. There are various plans, of course, to make things better for the actual elite at the expense of the working class. Trump's own actions come to mind. This actually is an existential problem for the US.
At every step here, you're contradicting yourself, trying to have your cake and eat it.
You say the withdrawal was terribly done, a clusterfuck, etc. Then it's pointed out it was planned and signed off by Trump-- and suddenly you're positive about it.
You cannot have it both ways. The outcome, the shoddy planning, all of these are down to a plan Trump came up with. If you think it was bad, then be consistent, and assign responsibility to the person that planned it.
There is not a single shred of legitimate evidence that this is the case. Not a single shred. This is a lie peddled by grifters and idiots, and you're valuing conspiracy theory horseshit over scientific data. Do better.
because there was nothing to be charged with and the blackmail being the actual crime. Pulling a fake charge completely out of one’s ass seems a more apt description of Lawfare then going after people who do actual crimes.
And I’m sorry to say you are objectively wrong. This to such extend that not even Trump loyalists like Barr or Pence felt they had anything to work with.
When it comes to military logistics, who do you believe?
a) A senior general who has spent decades in service and gets the reports from the military
b) A property developer who just walked in off the street
Trump has made an appeal to ignorance by presenting something incredibly complex as simple.
It's not just a tank of gas to Pakistan. It's equipment maintenance, negotiating with Pakistan a place to put this hardware (that's if Pakistan would be willing to host a base full of US military hardware which it might not, and then how much it would want to be paid). It's the security needed to protect it in Pakistan (or wherever else) whilst it awaits transport back to the USA, and the cost of then transporting it to the USA, plus restoring it back to function in the USA. It's the resources and salaried time of all the military and government personnel involved to oversee the project: pilots, engineers, security details, private contractors, civil servants, diplomats. Plus, of course, the risk to life for US servicemen in case someone decides to attack any of it anywhere along the way.
The military establishment is surely capable of working out it's cheaper and safer to just destroy stuff in situ. For an ex-military man, I think it's pretty incredible you should so casually accept a draft-dodger insulting and disrespecting the military that way.
Fine. But what about also accepting his part in creating the collapse of the Afghan regime that made the pull-out so difficult? Why does only Trump get the plaudits for pulling the US out, but only Biden the blame for it going badly?
It's simple "logic". Everything good is because of Trump, and everything bad is because of Democrats.