US 2024 Presidential Election

[Agema]

Blaming Dems for your own poor performance is just stupid and wasting everyone's time. The party could be grown but it requires a different technique than what Trump uses

Blaming Dems is in ways a really good idea.

Kamala Harris has no lessons for the Democrats – or herself

In 107 Days, her despair-inducing account of the 2024 presidential election, Harris is uninterested in the true causes of her defeat, and unable to offer hope for her party’s future

observer.co.uk

Kamala Harris’s election memoir shows just how deluded the Democrats still are | Nesrine Malik

This unapologetic trawl through a doomed campaign reveals a celebrity-obsessed party high on its own supply. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic, says Guardian columnist Nesrine Malik

www.theguardian.com

Democrat net favorability plunges to near three-decade low, poll shows

Democratic leaders have faced pressure to redefine their economic platform and reestablish credibility with voters.

www.newsweek.com

They come across as a party that doesn't obviously appear to stand for anything - because even the stuff they talk a lot about, they're generally crummy at delivering. They are like a party of managements consultants: bloodless, drab, everything calculated and triangulated to the nearest inch. Everything worked out with charts and metrics and none of it by having the faintest idea about real voters. Saying the right sort of things to provide some appeal to the right people (according to polling) and as inoffensive as possible to everyone else.

But maybe a party that cannot demonstrate that it really believes in anything doesn't deserve to win. Maybe all those besuited husks are missing the obvious, that if you don't set a clearl course, and lead, and sound proud about it, people just aren't that interested.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But maybe a party that cannot demonstrate that it really believes in anything doesn't deserve to win. Maybe all those besuited husks are missing the obvious, that if you don't set a clearl course, and lead, and sound proud about it, people just aren't that interested.

While that is absolutely true, doesn't make it much better for the people suffering from the other guy winning.

 

[Agema]

While that is absolutely true, doesn't make it much better for the people suffering from the other guy winning.

Oh, definitely. I would always favour better practical outcomes, and frankly I don't think it's worth making a statement objecting to genocide in another country when that statement a) puts someone more pro-genocide in charge of your own country who b) also assaults your own country's democratic institutions.

It's the stuff of the Judaean People's Front: fine, okay, you cared that much, but did you really make the world a better place?

But let's not pretend the Democrats lost all those votes because they refused to condemn genocide: after all, a fair number of their voters support that genocide, and most Americans just don't care that much about it either way. No, refusal to criticise the genocide is best as a representative symptom of their stupefying inability to take a meaningful stand and act on anything at all. And that's probably what's harming their electability more than anything.

 

[tippy2k2]

Blaming Dems is in ways a really good idea.

Kamala Harris has no lessons for the Democrats – or herself

In 107 Days, her despair-inducing account of the 2024 presidential election, Harris is uninterested in the true causes of her defeat, and unable to offer hope for her party’s future

observer.co.uk

Kamala Harris’s election memoir shows just how deluded the Democrats still are | Nesrine Malik

This unapologetic trawl through a doomed campaign reveals a celebrity-obsessed party high on its own supply. It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic, says Guardian columnist Nesrine Malik

www.theguardian.com

Democrat net favorability plunges to near three-decade low, poll shows

Democratic leaders have faced pressure to redefine their economic platform and reestablish credibility with voters.

www.newsweek.com

They come across as a party that doesn't obviously appear to stand for anything - because even the stuff they talk a lot about, they're generally crummy at delivering. They are like a party of managements consultants: bloodless, drab, everything calculated and triangulated to the nearest inch. Everything worked out with charts and metrics and none of it by having the faintest idea about real voters. Saying the right sort of things to provide some appeal to the right people (according to polling) and as inoffensive as possible to everyone else.

But maybe a party that cannot demonstrate that it really believes in anything doesn't deserve to win. Maybe all those besuited husks are missing the obvious, that if you don't set a clearl course, and lead, and sound proud about it, people just aren't that interested.

Exactly

Like...I know it's super easy to just go "Voters are just stupid!!!!" but like...they're not (well they are but not in the way that when Democrats say it)

People can tell that when Democrats are campaigning to get into office, they offer up a Leftists (an actual Leftist, not the "Democrats are a Communist Left Wing Party!!!!" version) paradise. They promise that they will fight for X Y Z and will do everything in their power to make sure it happens. We're going to tax the rich! We're going to give everyone health care! Free puppies for everyone!!!!!!!

Then when they get into office, suddenly nothing changes and they stop bringing up all the cool shit they campaigned on. The rich keep getting richer, the wars keep going, and the corporations and the rich add another billion to their billions while the average American can't afford a $500 emergency.

This wouldn't be so bad if we had an actual Democracy but instead we have the bastardized Two Party System instead. So people just check out. Shockingly, the "Lesser of Two Evils" for the past 25ish years The Democrats have been pushing doesn't work as people just choose not to play a rigged game instead (Especially this go around when Democrats decided that the "Lesser of Two Evils" was a fucking Genocide but coated in "empathy"). But instead of taking accountability, Democrats just blame The Voters for failing them rather than looking in the mirror and going "You know, maybe we need to start actually doing the cool shit we promise".

As Biden promised in one of the few times a politician spoke honestly, "Nothing will fundamentally change". Democrats get into office and nothing fundamentally changes so voters stop trying. Now we all get to deal with Trump. But hey, as I've said about 1,663,621 times here, keep blaming voters for rejecting your shit sandwich just because your shit sandwich is on White Bread instead of two pieces of shit, surely that will work THIS time Democrats...

 

[Agema]

As Biden promised in one of the few times a politician spoke honestly, "Nothing will fundamentally change".

Changing the traditions and institutions of a nation is the work of many years, decades, even generations. If you want a lot to fundamentally change quickly, you want a revolution and you need to agitate for that. Problem with revolutions is they often don't turn out quite like everyone hoped either.

But sometimes things are on a trajectory, and that trajectory is not always readily changeable. Take the fall of manufacturing, which has had massive social and political ramifications for the West and explains plenty about Trump's rise. But if you want to ask how that could have been prevented... I don't know that it ever realistically could. Much of the rage and hate in society is, I fear, the result of the internet and social media, and Trump is in ways an apotheosis of the trivial, short attention span, outrage, fury and vapid bluster of social media. How would that have been stopped? Who even realised it needed to be stopped? The USA invades and bombs places because that helped it cement its postwar power. It still is a way of maintaining power (why else do we think Russian and China also have huge militaries and are threatening their neighbours), even if sometimes used very unwisely or immorally. Asking it to stop is therefore a really big ask; never mind also the opposing the inertia when so much of the USA is geared to the potentiality of war. Change is difficult, and that needs to be recognised.

Democracy is (should be?) evolution and largely consensual progress. That's part of what that "tyranny of the majority" stuff is about: you're supposed to respect your fellow citizens when they disagree and not treat them as traitorous scumbags to be oppressed into compliance. Where democratic leaders have achieved major change in small timeframes, they have generally done so with an unusual amount of brute force (political or otherwise). Trump has worked by trampling roughshod over US institutions and millions of its citizens - but FDR was also ruthless and uncompromising, as many of his Republican critics would point out. It might be exciting for the Democrats to come out and "do a Trump". But on the other hand, there is also a level of discomfort about that, and I think it could be alienating, because many of us don't like authoritarianism, even when it's for a 'good cause'. And if you're a left-winger, you're only about half the party that gets half the votes cast, and start thinking that up to 75% of the country isn't on your side, and just how much you can demand they get out of the way for what you want.

So even at best, I don't expect the Democrats to fundamentally change the USA. Not quickly, anyway. But I think they can stop being such mediocre twats and doing a better job of moving the dial. For instance, I don't necessarily expect them to create national socialised healthcare in the context of the massive opposition that would be ranged against them, but I expect them to seriously try to move towards it. I think they also could receive more credit in ways: for instance when Biden's administration tried enforcing antitrust for the first time since the 1980s, it deserved a lot more attention and more respect.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

While that is absolutely true, doesn't make it much better for the people suffering from the other guy winning.

People suffer from BOTH parties winning. Here's a former CIA spy that sees the world completely differently than the average citizen saying Trump is the better overall option for America. If you can't see how someone can come to that conclusion, then you have obvious blind spots and can't objectively look at things. He's totally right about MIchelle Obama too. If I HAD to pick between a democrat and Trump, the only one I would pick over Trump is MIchelle Obama. I've heard her talk about values/life/etc for about 90 minutes straight, something Kamala can't do (she's such a horrible communicator). Though, I very much doubt Michelle would ever run for office based on listening to her.

@ just past the hour mark:
- So who is better for America Joe Biden or Donald Trump?
- Neither, they are both bad for America in different ways.
- Who is more likely to prolong American dominance?
- Donald Trump of the two... There is only one Democrat in the United States who can beat Donald Trump, only one, nobody else stands a chance... and that's Michelle Obama.

People can tell that when Democrats are campaigning to get into office, they offer up a Leftists (an actual Leftist, not the "Democrats are a Communist Left Wing Party!!!!" version) paradise. They promise that they will fight for X Y Z and will do everything in their power to make sure it happens. We're going to tax the rich! We're going to give everyone health care! Free puppies for everyone!!!!!!!

This wouldn't be so bad if we had an actual Democracy but instead we have the bastardized Two Party System instead. So people just check out. Shockingly, the "Lesser of Two Evils" for the past 25ish years The Democrats have been pushing doesn't work as people just choose not to play a rigged game instead (Especially this go around when Democrats decided that the "Lesser of Two Evils" was a fucking Genocide but coated in "empathy").

The democrats can't do public healthcare because in order to do public healthcare in a way that won't instantly bankrupt the country is that you have to fix healthcare first. So, you know that's an empty claim. And, even if they wanted actually did just push through a public healthcare system because they had the votes, it would be beyond horrible for the country. Same thing if Mamdani wins the NYC Major election, the people will be far worse off than if someone else wins if Mamdani actually is able to push through the policies he wants.

Power have far more power than they think (in so many regards). You don't need to vote for either party.

 

[tippy2k2]

So even at best, I don't expect the Democrats to fundamentally change the USA. Not quickly, anyway. But I think they can stop being such mediocre twats and doing a better job of moving the dial. For instance, I don't necessarily expect them to create national socialised healthcare in the context of the massive opposition that would be ranged against them, but I expect them to seriously try to move towards it. I think they also could receive more credit in ways: for instance when Biden's administration tried enforcing antitrust for the first time since the 1980s, it deserved a lot more attention and more respect.

The problem is that this gradual change SHOULD have already been taking place but Democrats spent the last one to two generations desperately clinging to power to make sure that they get to fill their coffers while leaving everyone out high and dry. Now we're all on the edge of a cliff thanks to their inactions (and actions with shit like Cop Cities, giving ICE and cops a bunch of money, things like the Patriot Act and constantly renewing it, etc. Democrats set the dinner table for Trump to walk on in and do what he is doing). This still would be something that maybe could be fixed if they did ANYTHING at all but no, they still insist on doing the same things they've been doing these last 25 years; roll over and hope The Republicans suddenly change their ways and stop doing what they're doing.

We all get to deal with Trump because Democrats have been building the foundation with Republicans for decades to get us here. Even now, very few Democrats have the will to actually fight (and the one Democrat who got to be on the National Stage with a little bit of fight in him, Tim Walz, was immediately muzzled for God only knows what reason). If they are unable (or much more likely unwilling) to get into the ring and fight for the citizens of this country, they need to get the fuck out of the way and let someone else take over the fight.

We had time to let a gradual change happen but Democrats pissed it away. Now those gradual changes need to happen ASAP because they just fucked around for so long making sure they got rich not rocking the boat too much for The Corporate Masters.

 

[tippy2k2]

The democrats can't do public healthcare because in order to do public healthcare in a way that won't instantly bankrupt the country is that you have to fix healthcare first. So, you know that's an empty claim. And, even if they wanted actually did just push through a public healthcare system because they had the votes, it would be beyond horrible for the country. Same thing if Mamdani wins the NYC Major election, the people will be far worse off than if someone else wins if Mamdani actually is able to push through the policies he wants.

It's so difficult that only 98% of first world nations have been able to figure it out. But I guess just like with Gun Violence, there's just no way to prevent this in the only nation where this regularly happens

 

[Phoenixmgs]

It's so difficult that only 98% of first world nations have been able to figure it out. But I guess just like with Gun Violence, there's just no way to prevent this in the only nation where this regularly happens

If you make turn healthcare public and pay the same exact prices you are paying now, it would just about instantly bankrupt the country. You have to fix the cost of healthcare first. No country that has public healthcare pays the prices we do.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Remember, folks, this is totally normal and not at all a sign of totalitarianism: Trump suggests that US cities could be "training grounds" for the military.

Donald Trump suggests US cities be "training grounds" for military

Trump has deployed National Guard troops across U.S. cities as part of a crackdown on crime.

www.newsweek.com

This is on the heels of Hegseth telling the military to "prepare for war" and Trump telling generals that "we're under invasion from within".

Oh, and here's the kicker quote from Trump to his generals:

Just have a good time. And if you want to applaud, you applaud. And if you want to do anything you want, you can do anything you want. And if you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank, there goes your future, but you just feel nice and loose, OK, because we're all on the same team.

But it was Biden who was the dictator, right?

 

[bluegate]

Remember, folks, this is totally normal and not at all a sign of totalitarianism: Trump suggests that US cities could be "training grounds" for the military.

Donald Trump suggests US cities be "training grounds" for military

Trump has deployed National Guard troops across U.S. cities as part of a crackdown on crime.

www.newsweek.com

This is on the heels of Hegseth telling the military to "prepare for war" and Trump telling generals that "we're under invasion from within".

Oh, and here's the kicker quote from Trump to his generals:

But it was Biden who was the dictator, right?

Yeah, but he's only doing all of that because ThE lEfT is always going around being LeFt all the time. His hands are tied man.

You'll never get an admission of how outlandish this is, only deflections to ThE lEfT.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

But it was Biden who was the dictator, right?

Are kids and parents being forced to leave parks for teaching kids to ride bikes?

 

[Agema]

The problem is that this gradual change SHOULD have already been taking place but Democrats spent the last one to two generations desperately clinging to power to make sure that they get to fill their coffers while leaving everyone out high and dry.

The USA got some change. And I'm genuinely not sure how much appetite there is in the USA for the big change that would satisfy a leftist. By which I mean the USA as a whole: it's not just the people, it's all the establishment and vested interests. A policy might be popular with the people, but it might not remain so if powerful sectors turn on it: businesses, churches, etc., as they can be perfectly capable of wilting public interest with adverse PR. Again, change is hard. I think we can fairly say they made plenty of mistakes, with a caveat that I don't think politics is easy, and that anyone can also be allowed to be wrong. It's not always easy to see that a strategy or a policy is a failure until hindsight arrives (at which point many a twat will tell us of course they knew all along).

In terms of mediocrity, I might argue that the Democrats made a deliberate strategy to be the "reasonable middle". I think they decided that the Republicans could be crazy, but if they were, the middle would back them. Maybe the evidence suggests that for a decent time it has worked: the Republicans have won the popular vote in only two presidential elections since 1988, and one of those in the middle of a 9/11-induced patriotic swell. But I'm not necessarily going to disagree that the Democrats have been profoundly complacent in the age of Trump: Biden's 2024 run is proof enough of their failings, and their ineffectuality and innocuousness since is hard to accept.

 

[Trunkage]

Sounds like a very good reason to listen to that issue then. The dems weren't the only game in town and they suffered for it.

*Looks around at the current state of America *

Sounds like there was a very good reasons to listen to the other issues too

I dont know if this was meant to be a gotcja. As I said, and you have now confirmed, you're a one issue voter and everyone else has to pay for your decisions.

 

[Trunkage]

Are kids and parents being forced to leave parks for teaching kids to ride bikes?

Dictators would allow the virus to spreading to sow fear into the community

 

[Trunkage]

That's one way of coping for people who didn't vote against the current regime, I suppose.

I would say there is a huge difference between some people who regularly don't vote or vote third party and those that have actively campaigned for Trump

Crimson and Tippy and their ilk cannot be shocked when millions of lefties listen to their rhetoric saying Biden is utterly evil and chose Trump instead

They can say that they weren't actively campaigning for Trump. It's possibly true. It doesn't matter as that was the result of their actions.

And they will blame the Dems again because that's all they do.

This isn't to say Dems are good. Its to say that they arent any different from the Dems as both sides are willing to sacrifice people for their own goals

 

[crimson5pheonix]

*Looks around at the current state of America *

Sounds like there was a very good reasons to listen to the other issues too

I dont know if this was meant to be a gotcja. As I said, and you have now confirmed, you're a one issue voter and everyone else has to pay for your decisions.

There's also that poverty increased under Biden, they actively did nothing for rail safety after a major railway accident that poisoned an area, failed to hold airlines accountable after nearly causing a massive air travel disaster, proudly increasing mass deportations, and then sent a lot of the worst possible messaging out about all of this. The Gaza genocide got a lot of the headlines because, y'know, it's a genocide that was actively being helped by the administration that also went out of it's way to demonize anyone speaking out against an actual literal genocide, so it's understandable that it got the most air time. But that 'looks around at the current state of America' line says something else, which I admit as a non-American does make sense.

You weren't looking around at the state of America before. This wasn't a case of "the Democrats were fine apart from Gaza", this was "the Democrats are actively screwing the entire country over for personal gain, and they can't even say they have more moral clarity than a bunch of child diddlers".

 

[BrawlMan]

The military does not like Trump and has 0 respect for him. They are truly disciplined. Defend the constitution, and not the one man in power.

​

 

[Gordon_4]

I wish Babylon 5 would stop being relevant again.

 

[BrawlMan]

I wish Babylon 5 would stop being relevant again.

BTW, I will never go to SomethingAwful Forum or whatever. Fuck that shit.