US 2024 Presidential Election
- Thread starter gorfias
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That's the most overt post but maybe part of it is our definitions of "indirectly" calling us Trump supporters are different. As I stated, I 100% think that people who have said "A vote for a third party is a vote for Trump" or "Guess you should have voted for Harris instead of letting Trump win" IS calling us Trump supporters, just a roundabout way of getting there (and about every Blue Maga/#VBNMW users on this forum have said that to us at some point).
Doesn't make you a Trump supporter, just makes you either unwilling/unable to consider the fallout of your (and those like you's) decision or alternately willing to place ideological purity above immediate practicality. There was no candidate with anything resembling a reasonable chance of winning that held the correct position on Palestine, so basing your decision primarily on that issue is a tactically poor choice because of the realities of FPTP voting. The consequence of third party voting that isn't part of a sea change in which parties are the two parties under FPTP is indirect promotion of the main party candidate furthest from your positions.
The right answer is to change our electoral system over to approval voting, and replace manual districting with algorithmic districting that does not include voter demographics as part of the math, something like least split line or a similar process. But those are hard positions to sell because they are wildly inconvenient for the people currently in power.
The only people with the power to change our electoral system are the people in charge of the electoral system who are currently in charge and as they have made crystal clear, they're perfectly fine the way it is. The hardest weapon Democrats have shown that they're willing to use is a Strongly Worded Letter. Democrats are unable (or much more likely unwilling) to meet the moment.
You don't break your chains by giving a slightly nicer slave master the keys. That might sound hyperbolic to you and the VBNMW Crowd who still believe that we can Strongly Worded Letter our way out of this shitshow with Trump and Company but it's true and Democrats these last 25ish years have been setting up the foundation for this moment. Cop Cities, Forever Wars, Patriot Acts, ICE, etc. They fight tooth and nail for all of this shit because money for the rich and money for themselves are the most important things to them and now everyone is shocked Pikachu face when a president finally rips off the mask and shows everyone the monster beneath it. The Republicans and Trump might be the ones wielding the weapons the way they are currently but Democrats have spent the time and energy stockpiling all these weapons for Republicans to wield.
Assuming we get another fair election in our lives, I can guaran-fucking-tee that if The Democrats retake everything, they will go right back to the Status Quo, building cop cities/throwing money at cops, giving Israel whatever they want and giving our military the green light to bomb whoever they want that might be a """threat""", sign legislation to watch everyone at all times and stop dissent, and give ICE everything they want and more. They'll throw a couple bucks into a "Help the Poor" bucket (while bulldozing tent cities and destroying all the belongings that homeless people have because they're an eyesore) and drape themselves in a rainbow flag (though they might cut out the T part if current Talking Head Rumblings are to be believed) but ultimately it'll be out with the old boss, here is the new boss who is the same as the old boss.
Bringing the Democrats back is doing nothing but stalling the inevitable Trump 2.0. The Lesser of Evil will always loop right back around to Evil because...well...the Lesser of Evil is STILL FUCKING EVIL.
This is true, and people throwing that out were/are not being accurate or fair.
And recall, you did something similar, denigrating those who didn't vote third party as facilitators of genocide. That's much the same flavour. It was a mess of recrimination in both directions and we'd be better to leave it behind us.
Because once again, I was being told I was supporting Trump for not voting for someone I disagreed with. I voted for someone whose policies I agreed with.
People voting Harris knew her policies. Giving her a Vote was saying you were fine with those policies (either because you were for it or because it wasn't a deal breaker for you).
So yeah, what I did was "similar" when I said people voting Harris were voting for Genocide but different in that very important and distinct way.
I'm not terribly interested in why you think your denigrations were different and dandy.
You dislike being told that with your vote, you were automatically adopting a position you do not hold (support for Trump), since that was not your rationale for voting and it isn't your belief. People vote the way they do for various reasons: its arrogant nonsense to impose presumed positions onto others. Well and good, you were right to object to people doing such to you.
...So do not do the same thing to others.
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I agree with all of that, except I do not see the people of the US breaking their chains or having a government that isn't evil in any event. I hope to be proven wrong, but hold little hope for large scale improvement.
Nobel Peace Prize 2025
The Nobel Peace Prize 2025 was awarded to Maria Corina Machado "for her tireless work promoting democratic rights for the people of Venezuela and for her struggle to achieve a just and peaceful transition from dictatorship to democracy"
www.nobelprize.org
To add to this conversation, voting third party nor staying neutral, because either options sounded bad, didn't do shit, but help Trump. I'm not saying people are wrong for voting third party, but the result speaks for themselves. Choice is still theirs at the end of the day. Now that people not voting for democratic nor republican nor third party are just as responsible. They thought their vote didn't matter, but as we've seen, some people don't learn their lesson like the last time. Then, you have those fools that voted for republicans under the empty promise that they was not the war in Gaza. Many of them Arab Americans mind you. They all expected a promise from the same guy that promised to put them in concentration camps. All the way back in 2016. Ain't that a biatch?!
I don't know what's going to happen, but it's great to still people within or outside the government fighting back. I'm sure as hell not giving up.
I don't know what's going to happen, but it's great to still people within or outside the government fighting back. I'm sure as hell not giving up.
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It's good to see people within the government fight back against this douchebag.
Democrats are for bombing random boats in Venezuela, they are just mad Trump isn't asking for their permission first...
You know when we say both parties are the same?
Unfortunately I 100% agree with this. The American People have shown time and time again that we just don't really care that the government is screwing us over constantly while making themselves richer than small countries.
I'd love to be proven wrong as well but I have seen zero signs that there is even the tiniest hint of fight in us to actually try to fix shit.
Voting for Harris didn't do shit either as she lost both the electoral vote and the popular vote. We also know that if every single Third Party Voter had voted Harris (even the ones that would have voted Third Party for like...Super Hitler because Trump wasn't Hitlery enough for them and they'd never ever ever vote Harris), she STILL would have lost.
Because again, Democrats believe that they are OWED votes. That because they are not Republicans, everyone should be on their knees begging for the chance to vote for them. They believe they don't have to offer anything, being not Republican is all it will take to win (even as they sprint to the right on issues and try to be Diet Republicans).
Posts like this just reinforce to Democrats that they were "right". It's not them that's the problem, it's the voters. So they're going to keep offering the same slop, lose more, and we all get to pay for it because they're the only other game in this shithole town so the common American decides to just not play the rigged game. So assuming we get to vote in 2028, I look forward to having these same "LeSsEr EvIl" arguments because The Democrats learn absolutely nothing from these Ls.
I am on my damn knees BEGGING the Democrats to figure their shit out because unfortunately, they are the only ones who have the power to stand up to Trump (short of a violent revolution I suppose). But based on how The Democrats have been acting while in office currently and things like Harris's new book where she is sure to blame everyone besides herself for the loss she took, I'm pretty sure all I'm doing is getting scrapes on my knees.
In other news: water is wet. Tell me something I don't know. At least I or those in the third party actually voted. My ire is more, so at the people who thought their votes didn't matter, and didn't learn their lesson the first and second time around. Once again, don't want to get me started on those who foolishly voted for trump thinking he would end the war in gaza. Before you start, I know the democrats wouldn't have done anything as well.But them immediately going for trump, and knowing that he said he would screw them over (what she did by removing any Arab or Muslim in America with political power, not under his thumb). The democrats, at least still would have kept the Arabs and Muslims that want to do the right thing in power, and not to take them out.
Don't beg; keep fighting.
And I don't give a single solitary fuck about her dumb book. My mom still likes her and even she don't give a damn about the book.
You specifically said " To add to this conversation, voting third party nor staying neutral, because either options sounded bad, didn't do shit, but help Trump." so you can probably see why I see you are saying voting third party helped Trump.
But to go back to my usual point, you are saying it's the voters fault for not "learning their lesson". But it's not the voters fault. Politicians (on both sides) job is to get people to vote for them. Democrats policy of being Diet Republicans for the past 25 years has convinced the vast majority of the country that voting for either party is a waste of time. Democrats have proven time and time again that "nothing will fundamentally change" with them in charge so people have decided "Fuck It, why play a rigged game?". The blame squarely goes on Democrats for teaching everyone that voting for them just gives them the same boss as usual.
The reason why you should care about Harris's dumb book is because Democrats are still telegraphing that they plan to run the same exact playbook that gave us Trump. The reason I am "begging" Democrats to pull their heads out of their fucking asses here is because if they don't, there's really only one of two ways America is ending; Trump and Republicans power grab becomes permanent and they just take over or a violent revolution. I don't want either of those things to happen. While I will continue to fight, I am one individual with zero actual power; there is only so much I can do. Currently, Democrats are the only ones with enough power to fight back but they are uninterested in doing so. Hence why I keep screaming at them to get off their God Damn asses and at least pretend like they have the backbone to fight back. May God help us all, they're the only ones in position to do something about it before violence becomes the answer...
Once again it did. Third party is really small, and we all know this. You would need at least more than a million to get this party really rolling. Just so we're clea: I have nothing against the third party, but i'm just pointing out what happened and part of the why. Once again, my anger and disappointment are those that keep choosing to stay out of everything, and feel like nothing they do matters, because they don't want to take a stand or they think they're taking a stand but it's just a selfish choice that only helps themselves and nobody else. The third party voters, at least actually got off their asses and voted.
I don't need to care when I already know that to begin with. I'm not going to waste time telling people not to buy her book. The people who already decided on it have decided that the moment she announced it.
Begging can only do so much (I prefer demanding at this point), which is why you must keep fighting. I'm not giving up hope. Not now and not ever. We've already seen people fighting back or showing Trump that he doesn't have as much power as he thinks, or wants to have. I don't want a violent revolution either, but the people are just a responsible as the government. The ones who haven't been doing anything or anything worse should really take a look in the mirror, get off their asses, and do the right thing for once in their pathetic lives.
The primary reason to vote for Harris was that she is no Trump.
Aside from that she had no appeal whatsoever. And now, that she lost, no one needs to pretend to like her anymore or care for her book.
Except for all the rumors and thoughts that the next 2028 Candidates may be a Harris/Newsome ticket...
Right now it might not matter but if Democrats do Democrat things, there's a very good chance that Harris (or someone with the same thought process as Harris) will be the 2028 Nominee. So you can nip this shit in the bud right now or we can all wait until then and be told "Well now it's too late, you're just hurting the party by criticizing her now!!!!"