The Return of the Steam Machine

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BrawlMan

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But how broad is that market?
Depending on how they price and market it: very broad at a price of at least $500. Any more than that, then it'll start to shrink immediately. Since Valve is privately owned and doesn't do public investment, the price point is pretty much in their ball and court. I have some minor curiosity for this, but even at the cheapest price.I can think of I see no point in me getting SM when it eventually launches. Most of the games I play on Steam are small games that don't take much processed power to run.
 

meiam

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Consoles are generally subsidized by licensing fees charged to developers. While Valve basically sits on a hoard of cash from their 30% Steam cut, I can see them not wanting to run the Steam Machine the same way.

The thing is, though, that the only real market I see for this is console gamers who want to dip their toes into PC gaming but don't want to deal with the usual hassles of personal computers. But how broad is that market?
There's 3 scenario:

-Priced like a console (ie Valve lose cash on every sales).

PC gamer will actually switch to it, this will cost Valve money on every sales, but won't give them anything since the player would have brought game anyway. So there would need to be mass exodus of console gamer to steam machine to compensate. Very doubtful. Maybe they'd be looking at it like a gateway drug, hoping that the console gamer stick around and eventually buy stronger PC and never go back to console and on the really long horizon (say 10 year) it makes sense. I know valve got cash to burn, but I don't see them taking that risk.

-Priced like a PC (ie valve makes a profit)

Who's going to buy this? It'll be a super niche things, they'll make a tiny profit (possibly not enough to justify the design cost). Maybe Valve just want to stick around and become another of the pre build PC supplier and there will be a new one every year or so.

- Priced in between (ie sold at cost or so)

Could possibly tempt a few console gamer, but I figure most of them are waiting to see what next gen is going to be like before pulling the gun since its right around the corner. By that time, regular PC will probably have caught up to the steam machine price point. Maybe PC gamer who are just on the cusp of upgrading could be tempted, but again, regular PC will keep going down in price, so thats a small window.
 
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Depending on how they price and market it: very broad at a price of at least $500. Any more than that, then it'll start to shrink immediately. Since Valve is privately owned and doesn't do public investment, the price point is pretty much in their ball and court. I have some minor curiosity for this, but even at the cheapest price.I can think of I see no point in me getting SM when it eventually launches. Most of the games I play on Steam are small games that don't take much processed power to run.
Most people think of PCs and consoles just in terms of direct hardware cost, and that's the wrong way to do things.

Let's say a PS5 costs $500 and the Steam Machine costs $750-$800, which I think would be a reasonable cost for those specs in that form factor.

Yes, the Steam Machine is $250-$300 more expensive than a PS5...but the PS5 requires you to pay $100 a year to play online while the Steam Machine doesn't. PS5 games cost $70, most games on the PC cost less. So yes, the up-front cost is higher on the Steam Machine, but the absolute cost of owning either one could be comparable, or the Steam Machine could even cost less overall over time depending on whether someone plays online, and how many games they buy per year.

Add to that the fact that the Steam Machine is a full fledged PC and can do things other than play games. Most people who have a console still have some other computer, a desktop, a laptop, a chrome book, an iPad, something to do all the things that the console can't do. The Steam Machine can do all of those other computer tasks.

I would say that the worst demographic for the Steam Machine would actually be students, who need to own laptops for school, as they don't really get much additional benefit from having a second PC.
 

BrawlMan

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Yes, the Steam Machine is $250-$300 more expensive than a PS5...but the PS5 requires you to pay $100 a year to play online while the Steam Machine doesn't.
I don't. I gave up PS+ THE MOMENT SONY PULLED THAT SHIT OFF AND STARTED CHARGING EVEN MORE THAN USUAL.

I am curious to see how this goes though.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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I don't. I gave up PS+ THE MOMENT SONY PULLED THAT SHIT OFF AND STARTED CHARGING EVEN MORE THAN USUAL.
And that's fine. Nothing wrong with making the choice not to get price gouged by Sony, but that means you can't play online and therefore your PS5 doesn't have comparable functionality in games to the steam machine (or any other PC), and effectively shrinks the game library you can access.
 
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BrawlMan

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therefore your PS5 doesn't have comparable functionality in games to the steam machine (or any other PC), and effectively shrinks the game library you can access
With the amount of games I have, it's not much of a shrink. Also, I don't bother with the majority of AAA(A), so it's really not a loss and more of a gain on my part. I focus on only the games that interest me and I prefer having physical anyway. I know how to work this system to my advantage. I don't care for online multiplayer either. Aside from co-op and the occasional fighting game, but I got Steam for that.
 

gorfias

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And that's fine. Nothing wrong with making the choice not to get price gouged by Sony, but that means you can't play online and therefore your PS5 doesn't have comparable functionality in games to the steam machine (or any other PC), and effectively shrinks the game library you can access.
Gold killed me when they stopped giving free games monthly.
Can the Steam Machine dual boot so I can boot into Windows and run office apps? I'll have to take a look.
I'm mostly about hybrid and VR at this point (other than my dedicated PC) but there's reason to be excited about this thing. And the Frame. Or wait for Quest 4. Good to be us with choices. EDIT: Yup. From AI, " Yes, Steam Machines can be set up to dual boot into Windows, but the process may require some technical knowledge and careful partitioning of the hard drive. It's important to note that performance may vary, and some users find SteamOS to be more efficient for gaming compared to Windows. "
 

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Gold killed me when they stopped giving free games monthly.
Can the Steam Machine dual boot so I can boot into Windows and run office apps? I'll have to take a look.
I'm mostly about hybrid and VR at this point (other than my dedicated PC) but there's reason to be excited about this thing. And the Frame. Or wait for Quest 4. Good to be us with choices. EDIT: Yup. From AI, " Yes, Steam Machines can be set up to dual boot into Windows, but the process may require some technical knowledge and careful partitioning of the hard drive. It's important to note that performance may vary, and some users find SteamOS to be more efficient for gaming compared to Windows. "
Steam Machine runs on SteamOS 3 which is based on Arch Linux and comes pre-installed with the KDE Plasma desktop, so you can just install the Linux office apps from that desktop and use it exactly like that.
 

gorfias

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Steam Machine runs on SteamOS 3 which is based on Arch Linux and comes pre-installed with the KDE Plasma desktop, so you can just install the Linux office apps from that desktop and use it exactly like that.
If I can use things like "Open Office" and other game store apps like EA, Microsoft has to be quaking in their boots.
 

Gordon_4

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If I can use things like "Open Office" and other game store apps like EA, Microsoft has to be quaking in their boots.
OpenOffice is about a three clicks and installed. EA is a little more tricky, there's a launcher called Heroic that allows you to install EA App and its games, but lots of the big multiplayer games have kernel level anti-cheat which most Linux distros flat out will not allow to run OR the anti-cheat refuses to install or work on Linux. So stuff like Mass Effect or DragonAge will probably work fine, but Apex Legends or Titanfall probably won't.

And boy, let me tell you the absolute FUN that is installing BattleNET on Linux. Spoiler alert, it is not fun.
 

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Valve has stated that they won't be subsidizing the price of the Steam Machine.


“No, it’s more in line with what you might expect from the current PC market.”
I'd crow about "calling it", but I think it was pretty well called before I ever said anything. With "current PC market" pricing applying, I'd expect somewhere between $800-1000.

EDIT: Here's the "Friends Per Second" podcast that the interview takes place in:

 
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Bob_McMillan

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I'd crow about "calling it", but I think it was pretty well called before I ever said anything. With "current PC market" pricing applying, I'd expect somewhere between $800-1000.
Does your estimate come from how much it would cost to build a PC with those specs? I know Valve won't be subsidising it, but I would still imagine they'd be able to sell these specs at a price cheaper than individually assembling all the parts yourself. I haven't kept up to date with what kind of build 800 bucks would get you today, but my build three years ago cost around that much and was essentially just a 1080p 60 FPS machine.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Does your estimate come from how much it would cost to build a PC with those specs? I know Valve won't be subsidising it, but I would still imagine they'd be able to sell these specs at a price cheaper than individually assembling all the parts yourself. I haven't kept up to date with what kind of build 800 bucks would get you today, but my build three years ago cost around that much and was essentially just a 1080p 60 FPS machine.
I'm ballparking it. Unfortunately desktop RAM prices have shot through the roof, and while the Steam Machine uses the same kind of RAM as laptop computers rather than desktop, I don't see the Steam Machine entirely escaping the higher prices thanks to other market considerations (such as manufacturers pivoting to meet the market with the higher asking prices).
 

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I'm ballparking it. Unfortunately desktop RAM prices have shot through the roof, and while the Steam Machine uses the same kind of RAM as laptop computers rather than desktop, I don't see the Steam Machine entirely escaping the higher prices thanks to other market considerations (such as manufacturers pivoting to meet the market with the higher asking prices).
This is a good callout because parts prices are kind of all over the place right now, which is also probably why Valve haven't actually released pricing yet.

As a system integrator though, Valve should be able to get better pricing on these parts than a normal consumer since they're going to be doing bulk purchasing directly from factories. That's why I'm expecting a price significantly under $1000.

It's definitely going to be priced higher than a console. A lot higher. But I think $800 seems like a reasonable sweet spot (and maybe a bit lower if RAM prices unfuck themselves).
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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It's definitely going to be priced higher than a console. A lot higher. But I think $800 seems like a reasonable sweat spot (and maybe a bit lower if RAM prices unfuck themselves).
I'll cop to some pessimism, and I wouldn't mind being proven wrong- I'm not going to be getting it, but an affordable alternative would only be good for the market as a whole.
 

Bob_McMillan

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I've been thinking about it more, and I can't help but feel like the Steam Machine is hobbled by trying to aim for 4K 60FPS. I guess there's a need to be seen as a serious competitor to the PS5, but do people really crave 4K that much? Especially the demographic that this product is aimed at. How much cheaper could they make this thing if it was a 1440p powerhouse instead? Although maybe that is essentially what it will be, I have no idea how good the specs are supposed to be. I wouldn't be surprised if the 4K 60FPS thing has a bunch of asterisks attached.
 

bluegate

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but do people really crave 4K that much? Especially the demographic that this product is aimed at. How much cheaper could they make this thing if it was a 1440p powerhouse instead?
In Television-land 1440p isn't really a thing.

If you want to sell a gaming device that hooks up to a television, then you're going to have to provide resolutions that fit within the television crowd and market. Chances are that it'll indeed just end up upscaling to 4k for most games.
 
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Bob_McMillan

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In Television-land 1440p isn't really a thing.

If you want to sell a gaming device that hooks up to a television, then you're going to have to provide resolutions that fit within the television crowd and market. Chances are that it'll indeed just end up upscaling to 4k for most games.
It's been a while since I myself was in Television-land, but in the Philippines at least, most people aren't gaming on TVs anymore. From what I have seen online, I assume this is not the case in the US. But I can't help but think that the Steam Machine appeals much more to demographics in countries with less purchasing power. Which is ironic considering Valve only sells their hardware in Western countries.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Well I think the Steam PC cube thingy is cute! There is a definitely a use case for it- a gamer like me who couldn't be bothered building a PC.
I just happen to enjoy the act of putting together a PC. Plus I need Windows because my "gaming" PC is also my TV watching and music-listening PC and my browsing the internet PC and my wife uses it for entertainment.
But say I had a dedicated office space separate from my living room- I could see putting the Steam machine in the living room and the PC I built in the office, or something. I know there is Steam Link and various cloud streaming services but those seem like such a hassle.

Two years ago I'd have dismissed the idea of such a thing but with XBox crapping the bed and Playstation making itself irrelevant by releasing their games on PC, I would totally dig a Steam machine.
 
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BrawlMan

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Playstation making itself irrelevant by releasing their games on PC, I would totally dig a Steam machine.
Considering how well Yotei did on PS5, and eventually Tokon, I wouldn't call Sony "irrelevant". There are also people still buying this console just to play GTA6, Madden, etc.

I know there are more pc users out there now, but still, most people just want to sit on their butts and have their game work immediately. At an affordable price.
 
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