Why Derivative Game Design Doesn't Matter

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Phoenixmgs

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The combat system is nothing more than Rock, Paper, Scissors. It's fun, but it's nothing crazy. Pick the stance that counters the enemy stance and win. Could also be a color matching game, or one of those infant toys where they try to put the same shape block into the same shape hole.
Yeah, which is why I didn't use stances and most of the kit because the combat just wasn't fun that way. Doing the parry/counterattack, the kick, the shoulder charge was fun and kept the challenge decent enough. I did use the unblockable attacks that use the resolve points as that was a limited resource at least and they were cool looking.
 

BrawlMan

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The base combat system is pretty solid, the main problem is like half of Jin's kit essentially breaks the game and makes the game super easy.
I don't care. It didn't make it any less fun for me. Besides, nobody knew all the game breaking stuff at the start, and it actually took a good few weeks+ before people discovered everything.

The combat system is nothing more than Rock, Paper, Scissors
No shit. Nobody denies this nor ever embellished the truth about it. Even Pat and Max Dood mentioned how similar the combat is to a Ninja Theory game, but better.
 

CriticalGaming

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No shit. Nobody denies this nor ever embellished the truth about it. Even Pat and Max Dood mentioned how similar the combat is to a Ninja Theory game, but better.
The thing is it that this actually proves my point earlier about how game mechanics don't really matter so long as the presentation is good. Ghost is a beautiful game, great scenery with great acting and cinematic work. It's presented in an amazing way, and as a result the player becomes entranced by the story and the world that you don't notice the gameplay foundations while you play.
 
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The thing is it that this actually proves my point earlier about how game mechanics don't really matter so long as the presentation is good. Ghost is a beautiful game, great scenery with great acting and cinematic work. It's presented in an amazing way, and as a result the player becomes entranced by the story and the world that you don't notice the gameplay foundations while you play.
Yes and no. It really depends on the game and what the devs are going for. It's clear what SP accomplished, yet combat has to least be good or above average. I figured out what they were going for by the time of unlocking the third or fourth stance. Jin's combat, and enemies reactions to still fit with the narrative, characters, and immersion of the setting.

Jin's sub-weapons, many which are used for stealth, are still useful even for distractions or adding to the melee combat, stunning enemies or even killing them at low enough health. The further you get to the game, or if you have his Ghost armor, depending on how well you do, you can have enemies running scared after seeing four or more their friends die. You can still kill them while they're running while busting out the bow and arrow, let them free to spread the word of the Ghost. Then's there Ghost Armor where Jin goes berserk into a rage state after killing a certain amount of enemies (there's an upgrade to reduce the kill amount to get into this state even faster) where all enemies get scared/can barely move or too scared and barely put up a defense and are very hestitnat. And it so awesome! It even works on the bosses, mini bosses, and even the final boss himself to an extent. It really sales the tall tale Jin has built up over the course of the game!



Then you have something like Hi-Fi Rush. Which is not only a Devil May Cry and DmC (2013) style action game, but it is a throwback to 6th generation games and early 2000s cartoons/anime. Everything had to be nailed perfectly, with the dynamic music, being on beat with the combat, the hits, and even the dodges and sound effects. HFR is still challenging, but is much easier than most of the DMC games, aside from DMC2 and 2013 reboot. HF is even easier than Bayonetta 1, but almost on the same difficulty curve as Bayonetta 2. Despite being deritivae of rythym and action games, HF managed to carve out its on niche, and add to the Stylish Action genre. After Tango learned their lessons from Metal Gear Rising, DmC, and Devil May Cry 5 when it came to the dynamic music.
 

Phoenixmgs

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I don't care. It didn't make it any less fun for me. Besides, nobody knew all the game breaking stuff at the start, and it actually took a good few weeks+ before people discovered everything.
The stances break the game. Heavenly Sword had a much better stance system.
 

BrawlMan

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The stances break the game
I don't care. Once again, most people didn't discover it until weeks later.

Heavenly Sword had a much better stance system.
YMMV and difference of opinion. Ghost's stance system I and most others find more enjoyable than HS.

Devil's Dare. The updated version with the name, Streets of Red. This is the spiritual predecessor to Double Dragon Gaiden, and it shows. There's no tag mechanics, but you can go up to 4 player co-op. There is no jumping either, but you do get a dodge roll with a invincibility frames.

I finished Devil's Dare last night. Beat it on the first attempt, and only died twice. And that was only at the final boss. The game does stand up on its own, and you can see the DNA of what would become Double Dragon Gaiden. Great game, though Devil's Dare is not better than it's spiritual successor. I still do recommend playing this game, because all of the fun gaming and movie references sprinkled out through all the levels.
 

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Of all the futuristic COD Campaigns, I'd still say Infinite Warfare has the best thought out universe, setting, characters, and gameplay variety.
 

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I know the new 007 game, has Uncharted type moments, but Naughty Dog was taking from Hollywood, Indiana Jones, and some of Bond any way. It's not much of an issue, cuz:

  1. Later Bond films are known for bombastic action and grand epic scenes. I know Mission Impossible movies after III expanded way more on this with the death defying stunts, etc, but as we've seen, there is more than enough gameplay variety in this demo. It's pretty clear most of the game will do a lot to mix it up with the stealth, environmental combat, and shooting.
  2. The last Uncharted game came out 8 years ago. That's more than enough time to not make this feel overplayed nor redundant. The shooting clearly goes into this own direction, mixed CQC, take downs, and using the environment to your full advantage.
  3. This game is made by I/O Interactive, they know what the fuck they're doing.
  4. Most people making the comparison, aren't even mad or upset. They either find it amusing, or are interested/curious. So it's not as a big an issue a very minuscule vocal minority trying to make it out to be.
 

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The TakeOver 2 has a parry button. Not the first SOR style game to have it but I wouldn't be surprised when this does well more will start doing it.
 

CriticalGaming

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To add onto that video, most people who complain about the lack of originality in a game or even movie and tv show, wouldn't know originality if it slapped them across the face. I'm not into the "woke" crap either as you all already know, but even I wouldn't slap the woke label on things just because girl or gay or whatever.

The other important thing to note is that these people who claim to always want originality don't actually play any of the game with original concepts or ideas. They aren't playing Incremancer, or any number of indie titles that hold all the real originality in the gaming industry until AAA discovers it and turns it into a microtransaction.

People talk a lot of shit but in reality they do not want original things, they want the same shit with different colors that they already know they love. That is why sequels and franchises exist and are the most profitable and popular things in the media business as a whole.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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People talk a lot of shit but in reality they do not want original things, they want the same shit with different colors that they already know they love. That is why sequels and franchises exist and are the most profitable and popular things in the media business as a whole.
A great many of them are bitter that the world and society moved on without them, and want everything to go back to how it was when they were young.
 

CriticalGaming

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A great many of them are bitter that the world and society moved on without them, and want everything to go back to how it was when they were young.
I feel like that's true for a lot of people. "back in my day" is a meme for most people and I'm sure everyone here can look back on previous shit and think that something was better back in the day for sure.

And somethings were objectively better. It's not always a bad thing to point at how something used to be an notice it was just better back then. Like fast food before they cheaped out on every possible ingredient.