US 2024 Presidential Election

[Agema]

Humor me, name a reason you believe it increased at the end of 2020 and remained exceptionally high for 3 years.

You cited one yourself: traffickers advertising routes to migrants.

 

[BrawlMan]

Bitches get self inflicting harm stitches.

ICE murderers are still roaming free.










So much for free speech.
​

 

[Silvanus]

​

"9 out of a focus group of 12 [...]"

So not really a atory, then.

Videos like this might make for catharsis. But they inflate the smallest non-story into a narrative of "implosion". Don't get caught up in social media engagement farming, something lefty commentators do just as often as right-wingers.

 

[BrawlMan]

"9 out of a focus group of 12 [...]"

So not really a atory, then.

Videos like this might make for catharsis. But they inflate the smallest non-story into a narrative of "implosion". Don't get caught up in social media engagement farming, something lefty commentators do just as often as right-wingers.

I don't. I actually haven't looked at any of the videos yet, aside from the ice agents.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

That's not me 'not posting in good faith'. That's me 'ignoring derailing irrelevancies' and me 'not humoring your attempts to change the scope of the argument'.

But since you insist:
Seeking asylum is not in itself a problem, and an increase in the number of people seeking asylum usually speaks more towards the countries they were fleeing from than to the countries that are deciding whether to accept them. For the sake of example, the fact that between 1934 and 1937 there were between 80,000 and 100,000 Germans on the waiting list for a US immigration visas had more to do with the situation in Europe than US Immigration policy.

And I remind you, your claim was very specific to US Immigration policy, in that it declared that ICE's 2025-Present actions were an equal and opposite response to the Biden Administration's policies. So the number of people seeking asylum is completely irrelevant to the point you invoked it to defend.

And tangentially, while I grant that I never went into it in detail, I did in fact touch on it as early as my first post: " Moreover, a deeper dive into the data shows that it was broadly driven by a perfect storm of regional instability, post-COVID movement, and economic shock, not the immigration policy of either administration".

And I further noted that "one of causative factors of the increase was the Trump Administration's implementation of Title 42 expulsions - starting in March 2020, and which Biden did not lift until May 2023 - which both incentivized border patrol evasions by removing legitimate avenues of immigration (such as asylum) and ended up incentivizing repeat crossings due to the specifics of implementation, which actually made it easier to make repeat attempts in a short period of time, inflating the border crossing figures substantially."

So let me break this down for you:

1. The question of asylum seekers is already covered in the data categories being discussed, and moreover, it's irrelevant to the question of immigration enforcement, which is the only thing that matters when discussing whether the actions of ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) are warranted, especially as the 'equal and opposite response' that you claim.
2. "People don't want it" does not support the argument. That is a claim about preference, not a causal explanation. And again, it's utterly irrelevant. ICE's purview is to enforce Immigration Laws. So again, the number of asylum seekers is irrelevant.
3. And whether or not I'm addressing your claim doesn't matter unless you introduce data that affects the causal claim.

And that causal claim was that Biden Era policy caused contemporary ICE action as an "equal and opposite reaction". That claim can only function if Biden era policy was extremely lax. And the data does not support that.



...You're talking as if it's a supply and demand thing, like a given administration puts in an order for a number of immigrants rather than evaluating their cases. Which is simply bizarre given your current focus on asylum. Because asylum is definitively a humanitarian effort, more defined by the recognized need of the refugees and asylum seekers than by any 'we have enough of your kind' sentiment in the host country's population.

What are you going on about? You don't make any sense. People don't care how immigrants come in, someone seeking asylum vs someone wanting to come because of family is the same thing for the average person. The number of people from asylum is not fucking irreverent. A lot of asylum seekers were fraudulent so ICE enforcing immigration law does apply to asylum seekers in the country. Biden literally told asylum seekers to come. It doesn't matter the external factors, a country (any country) can decide how many immigrants they allow in. Again, what are you talking about? Immigrants come because they want to so if you have 2,000 people wanting to come, you can only accept 1,000 or 50 or whatever you want. Obviously, you can't accept more than 2,000 (the amount that want to come).

Well that's either a silly lie or you've never studied history.

That's about the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in ages, though I tend to not show ignored content.

 

[FakeSympathy]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtube.com

Let’s be real, are we remotely surprised by anything that comes out of this bloated orange at this point?

He would know everything about being “unconstitutional”, wouldn’t he?

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtube.com

Let’s be real, are we remotely surprised by anything that comes out of this bloated orange at this point?

He would know everything about being “unconstitutional”, wouldn’t he?

Remember that Trump believes the Constitution lets him do whatever he wants.

 

[Trunkage]

Thousands of lives would've been saved if the vaccine was released on schedule... There was no scientific reason to change the end date.

You did not attempt to answet the question

 

[Trunkage]

You don't at all talk about asylum seekers... which I mentioned in my very first reply. Immigrants increased in record numbers, that is just a fact.


The school was literally closed...

It was closed due to a storm. My kids school was closed due to a cyclone. Are we blaming this closure on immigrants?

Edit: I should say the building was closed. School was still on. At least my kids got some days off due to storms. Becuase... its a storm. Dont be stupid, stupid

Is it normal for schools in the US to be on during a storm?

 

[Trunkage]

Not that I'm aware of.

Oh good. It disproves that Biden was lax on the border. Maybe show it around to your friends

 

[Trunkage]

You cited one yourself: traffickers advertising routes to migrants.

Heres some others

The ICE raids have been taking CBP away from the border. Its hard to count when all the officers are away

The raids took a whole lot away from other services too. Prosecutions have dropped about by the tens of thousands because there is not enough agents to track down leads

In 2023, we had a bunch of vigilants from Northern states go down to the border when they heard there was a crisis. They did not find a crisis.

Edit: This was not to say that there wasnt higher immigration under Biden. Its just not as big as Trump made it out

 

[Trunkage]

That's about the stupidest thing I've read on this forum in ages, though I tend to not show ignored content.

But everyone was happy when the US tripled in size due to immigration in the 50 years after the civil war.

 

[tstorm823]

Oh good. It disproves that Biden was lax on the border. Maybe show it around to your friends

I does not do that in the slightest, but I still take offense on all my friends behalf that you think the way you do.

 

[Trunkage]

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

youtube.com

Let’s be real, are we remotely surprised by anything that comes out of this bloated orange at this point?

He would know everything about being “unconstitutional”, wouldn’t he?

You gotta understand. Laws are generally made to benefit rich folks. Trump made the mistake of going into government where a minimal laws applies, mainly to stop him from hurting rich folks

 

[Trunkage]

I does not do that in the slightest, but I still take offense on all my friends behalf that you think the way you do.

Offend away.

It would be cool if you guys stop making me defend Biden on obvous lies. I hate him and wish he was in jail. You just giving a smokescreen for his actual crimes. Why dont you attack him for his actual wrongdoings?

 

[tstorm823]

I hate

Have you ever considered not doing that? You might stop falling for all the lies if you stop hating first.

 

[Asita]

What are you going on about? You don't make any sense. People don't care how immigrants come in, someone seeking asylum vs someone wanting to come because of family is the same thing for the average person. The number of people from asylum is not fucking irreverent. A lot of asylum seekers were fraudulent so ICE enforcing immigration law does apply to asylum seekers in the country. Biden literally told asylum seekers to come. It doesn't matter the external factors, a country (any country) can decide how many immigrants they allow in. Again, what are you talking about? Immigrants come because they want to so if you have 2,000 people wanting to come, you can only accept 1,000 or 50 or whatever you want. Obviously, you can't accept more than 2,000 (the amount that want to come).

Setting aside the question of your statements' veracity for a moment:

• Whether or not the "average person" cares about "how" immigrants come in is not only irrelevant to the topic in general terms, it is also not relevant to anything I presented you with. Moreover, it is a straight up invocation of the "Appeal to Popularity" fallacy. We are not arguing about what people want, we are arguing about whether or not there was a policy deficiency so extreme that the 2025-2026 actions of ICE constitute an "equal and opposite response".
• The number of people from asylum is absolutely irrelevant in itself. The only relevant question is about whether enforcement efforts strengthened, weakened, or remained static. Otherwise you are not judging by policy but by surrounding circumstance.
• Even if we took your "a lot of asylum seekers being fraudulent" at face value (and that's a big if), that still would not justify your invocation of asylum numbers as a stand in for fraudulent asylum claims. Those are not the same thing.
• "Biden literally told asylum seekers to come" is a meaningless prop that you're pushing up, nothing more than a soundbite that occurred in the context of a presidential debate, not a policy decision. And as we've already been through, the administration increased enforcement rather than decreasing it or even remaining static in it.

And once again, the fact of the matter is that you made a policy declaration: That the Biden administration's policy was such that ICE's 2025-2026 actions are normatively justified as "an equal and opposite response". And the data does not support that conclusion.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

View attachment 14543

This doesn't show what you seem to think it does, and it doesn't even show 100 years of history. I don't know why you think this in any way backs up your claim that "Citizens were fine with the normal amount of immigration for nearly the last 100 years." Your own chart shows that for the majority of the time covered people have said they want decreased immigration.

 

[Chimpzy]

Trump calls critics of war 'treasonous', rejects Iran peace proposal

The unresolved conflict is driving up the price of gas in the U.S. to levels not seen in years. Other parts of the world face possible food shortages.

www.usatoday.com

I suggest a capital felony punishable by firing squad. They wanna bring those back anyway.

 

[Hades]

What are you going on about? You don't make any sense. People don't care how immigrants come in, someone seeking asylum vs someone wanting to come because of family is the same thing for the average person.

You are correct. The far right has the basic stance that it is all unacceptable and they merely switch between which they put focus up for tactical reasons.

If someone flees from war they are a leech, probably a fraudulent fortune seeker lying about war and definitely a rapist who came here to take your wife by force.

If someone merely comes for economic reason they are a ''fortune seeker'' and they ''dey took er jerbs!''

Which of the group is the target of the day is purely a tactical decision. In the economic crisis most focus was put on the later, but when the economy improved and the Syrian migrant crisis began more issue was put on asylum and now the recurring issue because the far right refuses to shut up about it despite asylum seekers statistically being the smallest group around here.