US 2024 Presidential Election

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Hades

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Majority of people do not want less immigration, that is literally not what the poll says. Also, most cities, as in, have housing costs that are too high, bringing in more people to those cities will only increase the price of housing. You can't just bring in more people and have it magically work out. People don't view immigrants as subhumans. Say a friend asked to move into my place and I said no, that doesn't mean I view that friend as subhuman.
First you say they don't want more migration and now you say they do?

We can say that migration does not help housing prices but it is not the cause of the housing crisis either. Connecting the two isn't just untrue but more importantly it is also unwise. Going after things that are not the cause of the housing crisis means it will not get fixed. We are living proof of that. Every party agreed the housing market was in crisis and every party had policies to tackle it. But then Wilders rode in on his anti migration steed and due to migration being made the sole subject of the campaign the topic of the housing market was dropped entirely. No policies to fix it. Kicking out the scary brown people would save the day.

So the Wilders government put all its focus on failed anti migration policies, and the topic of housing was left to languish and ultimately nothing was solved and we lost years that could have been spend fixing the housing market.

Ah if you merely said no and stopped there you might have a point. But that is not what the far right is saying. The far right very vocally says ''no BECAUSE you will rape our woman'' or other such statements to wipe the public in a frenzy for political gain. A clear, honest and rational analysis of what the country can and cannot handle is not what drives the argument of the far right and due to their pressure it does not drive the regular right either. They simple do not talk like ''unfortunatley we have to tell them no' but its no''t personal'. They never ever have , not even from their earliest days.
 

tstorm823

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As for white, proposing that race is not a factor in some Americans' thinking merely makes you look like a buffoon. It's not just the direct racism of outright racists, it's the indirect racism: that skin colour inevitably prompts some people to make assumptions about religion, culture, language, education etc.
There's always some, but you're talking about polling data attempting to represent the country. Your "some" is a rounding error in that data. If someone comes to the US from Asia, or Africa, or South America and they speak English well, all the assumptions about them are going to be positive from nearly 100% of Americans. America loves immigrants who want to join the nation, to participate in our country, the part that is controversial are those who come to be physically in the country with no intention of belonging to it.
 

Phoenixmgs

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First you say they don't want more migration and now you say they do?

We can say that migration does not help housing prices but it is not the cause of the housing crisis either. Connecting the two isn't just untrue but more importantly it is also unwise. Going after things that are not the cause of the housing crisis means it will not get fixed. We are living proof of that. Every party agreed the housing market was in crisis and every party had policies to tackle it. But then Wilders rode in on his anti migration steed and due to migration being made the sole subject of the campaign the topic of the housing market was dropped entirely. No policies to fix it. Kicking out the scary brown people would save the day.

So the Wilders government put all its focus on failed anti migration policies, and the topic of housing was left to languish and ultimately nothing was solved and we lost years that could have been spend fixing the housing market.

Ah if you merely said no and stopped there you might have a point. But that is not what the far right is saying. The far right very vocally says ''no BECAUSE you will rape our woman'' or other such statements to wipe the public in a frenzy for political gain. A clear, honest and rational analysis of what the country can and cannot handle is not what drives the argument of the far right and due to their pressure it does not drive the regular right either. They simple do not talk like ''unfortunatley we have to tell them no' but its no''t personal'. They never ever have , not even from their earliest days.
I said most people don't want less immigration and you said that they do. It's in the poll. 38% want the same level of immigration, 26% want more immigration; thus, 64% of the population does not want to lower immigration.
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I never insinuated that immigration is the cause of the housing crisis. But when you do have housing costs that are too high, increasing the population is not a good idea because prices will go even higher because you're having more demand with the same supply. That's literally just how basic economics works.

You act like the far left has clear and rational arguments. Just proclaiming your city a sanctuary city is not helping either or the way to do anything.
 

Hades

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I said most people don't want less immigration and you said that they do. It's in the poll. 38% want the same level of immigration, 26% want more immigration; thus, 64% of the population does not want to lower immigration.
seems we are getting in somewhat pedantic territory but the same things I said still applies. This is not an area of the far right against the others. ALL political parties except maybe your local vegan hippie party does not want migration to increase either. Not just the far right has this stance but the normal right, the center and the left. They all agree on this point.

I never insinuated that immigration is the cause of the housing crisis. But when you do have housing costs that are too high, increasing the population is not a good idea because prices will go even higher because you're having more demand with the same supply. That's literally just how basic economics works.
Perhaps but you draw a link between them that is unwise and to be thoroughly distrusted. If the housing market is a concern they should talk about the housing market and if that can be fixed the impact of migration on it will already lessen significantly.

You act like the far left has clear and rational arguments. Just proclaiming your city a sanctuary city is not helping either or the way to do anything.
I act like it is not about the far left. They are a non factor on account of barely having any presence within political parties. But the left, center and arguably the right when they do not want to larp as the far right have clear and rational policies. Whether they will ultimately fix anything is unknown because factors any individual country can apply simply are limited.
 

Phoenixmgs

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seems we are getting in somewhat pedantic territory but the same things I said still applies. This is not an area of the far right against the others. ALL political parties except maybe your local vegan hippie party does not want migration to increase either. Not just the far right has this stance but the normal right, the center and the left. They all agree on this point.



Perhaps but you draw a link between them that is unwise and to be thoroughly distrusted. If the housing market is a concern they should talk about the housing market and if that can be fixed the impact of migration on it will already lessen significantly.



I act like it is not about the far left. They are a non factor on account of barely having any presence within political parties. But the left, center and arguably the right when they do not want to larp as the far right have clear and rational policies. Whether they will ultimately fix anything is unknown because factors any individual country can apply simply are limited.
What you said was wrong.
Wanting less migration is not the edgy anti establishment platform but just the norm.
I didn't draw a link, I just listed how stuff works. More people with the same amount of houses means higher housing costs. The left keeps enacting polices that make housing more expensive. Look at say Houston vs San Francisco.

Left policies usually do the opposite of what they say they'll do.
 

Trunkage

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White and European is just you projecting imaginary racism.

Christian and English-speaking are factors people actively value, yes.
*Looks at thr Iran War*
We seen what Christians stand for. No one wants it

As to the English speaking comment, many incompetent people get jobs becaude they can speak English. You are doing what you pretend DEI is - giving jobs to bad workers because they have attributes you want
 

Trunkage

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What you said was wrong.
No. You made up what other people thought and pretended it was real

At least we can blame this on the GOP. This is what they have done for about 60 years. You are just repeating them.

The Dems are conserative and racist and are very worried about immigration. They just don't do it like Trump like how are they not interested in breaking the constitution
 

Trunkage

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So if that Hanta virus spreads any further our American friends are pretty much fucked. But aside from Trump having deliberately mishandled a pandemic last time its also going to be Kennedy of all people that will be tasked to handle the outbreak.

All that would stand between American citizens and a virus is the guy that devoted his political career to ruining American health. Which was something every American knew when they voted for Trump.

I doubt Hanta will be that big but I do not envy those stuck with Kennedy should it ever become big.
It is an interesting situation. RFK prefers that people expose themsevles deliberately to virus and this one kill at around a 40% rate

There are no medicine or vaccines. The only option is quarantine/lock downs. And RFK prefers that people die than being asked to stay at home
 

tstorm823

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As to the English speaking comment, many incompetent people get jobs becaude they can speak English. You are doing what you pretend DEI is - giving jobs to bad workers because they have attributes you want
Lol. You've said some wacky things, but "language isn't a valuable skill, it's just an attribute" is pretty telling.
 

Asita

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And blue cities not working with ICE didn't cause any of this. And Biden expanding the CBP One app to be used just for commercial purposes to asylum seekers had nothing to do with the immigration surge either.
And once again you are pivoting claims, belying that you don't actually understand or even care about the particulars, but rather just feel entitled to your conclusion that it "must be Biden's fault", which you evidently think would necessarily make ICE's 2025-2026 actions justified as an equal and proportionate response.

You want to talk about using CBP One? That was used to help schedule asylum appointments. Which is to say: Going through the proper channels.

You want to talk about Sanctuary Cities? Given your invocation, I have my doubts that you even know what that term means. See, its frequent usage is that of not just a vague buzzword, but genuine slander, with the speaker falsely insinuating that the city either refuses or even actively impedes immigration law. In actuality, the term is used to describe cities with very simple policies that typically amount to things like prioritizing the preservation of the broader rule of law and refusing to break it just for ICE's convenience.

Quite literally, the typical qualifiers are thus:
  • Local police do not proactively enforce federal immigration law. (Which should not be controversial, as local police generally are not tasked with enforcing civil federal immigration law unless operating under specific authority or agreements. To put it simplistically, it's simply not their jurisdiction.)
  • City employees are limited in when they can ask about immigration status. (Which is to encourage residents to report crimes, seek medical care, or cooperate with local government without fear of immigration consequences)
  • Local jails may decline to hold people past their release date solely for ICE unless there’s a judicial warrant. (As without a judicial warrant that's a Fourth Amendment violation, which is to say against the law)
  • Local resources and budgets are reserved primarily for local public safety priorities. (Again, basic legality. The federal government generally cannot require states or municipalities to use their own personnel/resources to administer federal regulatory programs)
That's literally how low the bar is, but even then it's more frequently used as a buzzword and dogwhistle to bullshit that a political rival has flooded their area with 'undesirables'. Take 2008, for instance, in which Mitt Romney accused Rudy Giuliani of running a Sanctuary City and Giuliani retorted that Romney was running a Sanctuary Governor's Mansion.

And regardless - even when focusing on the more defensible usage rather than the rhetorical buzzword usage - that's a local government decision. Moreover, it typically amounts to little more than "a city that follows ordinary constitutional limits and reserves local resources for local governance".

So, even if we did take your assertions at face value, trying to pin it on Biden would still be ridiculous, as that would amount to accusing the federal government of being responsible for local governance decisions. And that does not hold up to scrutiny.

So once again: The claims you have now pivoted to are irrelevant to the point that you invoked them to support.
 
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Agema

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There's always some, but you're talking about polling data attempting to represent the country. Your "some" is a rounding error in that data. If someone comes to the US from Asia, or Africa, or South America and they speak English well, all the assumptions about them are going to be positive from nearly 100% of Americans. America loves immigrants who want to join the nation, to participate in our country, the part that is controversial are those who come to be physically in the country with no intention of belonging to it.
Goodness me. You sound like a white man who pretty much only speaks to white people and gets his news and views from overwhelmingly white sources. The useful thing about talking to people from other backgrounds is that you find out the real country isn't that sort of fantasy land.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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Goodness me. You sound like a white man who pretty much only speaks to white people and gets his news and views from overwhelmingly white sources. The useful thing about talking to people from other backgrounds is that you find out the real country isn't that sort of fantasy land.
"There's no racism in my lily-white gated enclave; therefore, America has solved racism."
 

tstorm823

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Goodness me. You sound like a white man who pretty much only speaks to white people and gets his news and views from overwhelmingly white sources. The useful thing about talking to people from other backgrounds is that you find out the real country isn't that sort of fantasy land.
My local priest is from Nigeria. I play a lot of disc golf with a woman who immigrated from Palau. I have lived in a house with a Korean. My job puts me in contact with people in India. I live in a region of the country known for being demographically similar in breakdown to the nation as a whole, and I work in a city that is basically 3/8 white, 3/8 hispanic, and 1/4 black, and beyond that my work takes me to a number of warehousing and manufacturing environments that are staffed in large part by immigrants. If my position is too colored by my personal experience, it is that I spend so much time around people of different ethnicities and national origins that I imagine perhaps to too great an extent that my experience matches the rest of the country. But I've seen immigrants embraced in rural Catholic churches and also on construction sites in cities, people I've seen are generally excited to interact with someone from somewhere new, provided they can communicate with them.
 

Agema

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My local priest is from Nigeria. I play a lot of disc golf with a woman who immigrated from Palau. I have lived in a house with a Korean. My job puts me in contact with people in India. I live in a region of the country known for being demographically similar in breakdown to the nation as a whole, and I work in a city that is basically 3/8 white, 3/8 hispanic, and 1/4 black, and beyond that my work takes me to a number of warehousing and manufacturing environments that are staffed in large part by immigrants. If my position is too colored by my personal experience, it is that I spend so much time around people of different ethnicities and national origins that I imagine perhaps to too great an extent that my experience matches the rest of the country. But I've seen immigrants embraced in rural Catholic churches and also on construction sites in cities, people I've seen are generally excited to interact with someone from somewhere new, provided they can communicate with them.
That's kind of what I mean. It's not your experience that matters, but theirs: because they are the ones most likely to experience racism.

But your president talks about immigrants "poisoning the blood" of the USA, surprisingly often, in various ways. (He also things being a criminal is in the genes, and we know what he says about immigrants and crime), and all that stuff about he'd like immigrants from Norway not "shithole" countries. There's not that much complaining or pushback from you guys, is there? Lots of right wing commentators increasingly embrace "Great Replacement" like ideas, which has is absolutely about race. With general policing or ultra-aggressive immigration enforcement, I'll bet you that the overwhelmingly white conservative voters are immensely relaxed about the overwhlemingly non-white citizens and legal residents harassed in the course of finding actual illegals. Hell, mainstream conservative commentators are still making historically illiterate apologies for American slavery, and that is definitely not coming from people at peace with other races.

This sort of stuff isn't rare or even fringe. I'm absolutely sure plenty of people into that sort of shit can get on personably with people of other races in many ways, and even have them as friends. And yet they are also to some degree racists. (There's a reason why everyone laughs at the defence "I'm not a racist, I have a black friend")

So if you want to talk about Americans who are overtly and aggressively racist, sure, it's a few percent at most. But racism is a spectrum, and if you want to expand out from the virulent racists through varying degrees of holding adverse views and assumptions about, being less trusting of, feel uncomforable around (etc.) people of other races then you're into quite a substantial chunk of the population. And to some degree, those people are just going to favour white people.
 

Chimpzy

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tstorm823

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There's not that much complaining or pushback from you guys, is there?
Yes, there is.
Hell, mainstream conservative commentators are still making historically illiterate apologies for American slavery, and that is definitely not coming from people at peace with other races.
You don't have a leg to stand on criticizing commentary you have no intention of ever consuming. You looked at the title, made your assumptions, and considered those assumptions to be a functional argument. There is a ton of push back on the right when Trump says stupid things. Matt Walsh's piece there has a stance, but it is not historically illiterate. Your beliefs to the contrary are entirely baseless as you have on multiple occasions told me that you refuse to partake in any of the media you're criticizing. You are flaunting your own ignorance.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Yes, there is.

You don't have a leg to stand on criticizing commentary you have no intention of ever consuming. You looked at the title, made your assumptions, and considered those assumptions to be a functional argument. There is a ton of push back on the right when Trump says stupid things. Matt Walsh's piece there has a stance, but it is not historically illiterate. Your beliefs to the contrary are entirely baseless as you have on multiple occasions told me that you refuse to partake in any of the media you're criticizing. You are flaunting your own ignorance.
There wasn't enough push back to not elect him though.

Funny how the Nazis and the white supremacists feel so comfortable within the Republican party, must just be a coincidence.
 
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