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tstorm823

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A couple of lawyers, those they represent, and a member of the judicial branch, i expect.

What, are you going to argue that a panel of political appointees making allocations at whim, without judicial process or oversight, is the same as settlements?
No, ultimately I'm saying you're in a catch 22. This fund is being made from a lawsuit settled out of court. If that settlement process isn't safer from corruption, this designated fund need not exist to corrupt. If that process is safer from corruption, this "corrupt" fund wouldn't have come out of it at all.
 
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Silvanus

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No, ultimately I'm saying you're in a catch 22. This fund is being made from a lawsuit settled out of court.
Between a plaintiff and defendant both controlled by the same individual. A state of affairs you can't just recreate endlessly, without inviting scrutiny.

If that settlement process isn't safer from corruption, this designated fund need not exist to corrupt. If that process isn't safer from corruption, this "corrupt" fund wouldn't have come out of it at all.
If you're attempting to illustrate a 'catch 22', then I assume the second sentence there is supposed to read, "if that process is safer".

Because otherwise both sentences are talking about the same scenario, which is a scenario nobody alleged anyway.
 

tstorm823

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If you're attempting to illustrate a 'catch 22', then I assume the second sentence there is supposed to read, "if that process is safer".

Because otherwise both sentences are talking about the same scenario, which is a scenario nobody alleged anyway.
Yup, fixed.
Between a plaintiff and defendant both controlled by the same individual. A state of affairs you can't just recreate endlessly, without inviting scrutiny.
A) Because?
B) Has this settlement not invited as much scrutiny?
 

Silvanus

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A) Because?
This is a bit like asking, "why steal a credit card & PIN when you could just steal $100 in cash from the same place, over and over and over again ad infinitum".

And then concluding that it can only mean the thief wanted to limit himself by the credit card's 100,000,000 withdrawal limit.

B) Has this settlement not invited as much scrutiny?
As much as would be invited by rigging 100 separate suits? Uhrm, no, of course not. That would invite investigation and reporting on each as its filed and settled, over months and potentially years, and subjection to safeguarding procedure. This way, its one and done, quickly forgotten by most media, and the allocation is ordered exempt from safeguarding requirements.
 

Schadrach

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If it's pure corruption, they could just make settlements in their favor.
You mean something like a settlement that says that Trump, his family and affiliated persons are granted amnesty for all unpaid taxes and cannot be audited? Because I've got some bad news for you... https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1441216/dl

It's easy to get to decide on a settlement when you're both the plaintiff and ultimately in charge of the organization you're suing...
 

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So what? Use the ones that work. Your article states clearly that inverters allow renewables to be integrated. Its actually very positive about the tech.

Dozens of countries use renewables, integrated into their grids just fine. That's already the reality right now. Its not even terribly costly; its a great deal cheaper than the fossil fuel industry, which haemorrhages power and requires the companies to be subsidised at public expense.
They literally don't know if they would work... That's the point, we don't know what works.

The video literally described how renewables failed a power grid...

US subsidizes more renewables than fossil fuels.
According to a report by the International Renewable Energy Agency, government support for fossil fuels still reigned as of 2017: they garnered 70 percent of energy subsidies that year worldwide, with only 20 percent for renewables. In the United States, though, the numbers are flipped. The Energy Information Administration says half of the federal money spent to subsidize energy from 2016 to 2022 went to renewables, while less than 15 percent went to oil, gas, and coal. And that doesn’t include tens of billions of dollars per year in clean energy tax credits from 2022’s Inflation Reduction Act.
 

Silvanus

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They literally don't know if they would work... That's the point, we don't know what works.
We know plenty that do work. Once again: dozens of countries already successfully use inverters to integrate renewables into their grids.

It is already in place. Working. Functional.

The video literally described how renewables failed a power grid...
Right. And d'you know how many times our overreliance on fossil fuels has thrown us into dire straits? Have you heard of OPEC? The winter of discontent? The 3-day week? The 70s energy crisis? The Texan grid failure? The present energy crisis?

US subsidizes more renewables than fossil fuels.
Nope. This may have been the case between ~2008 and 2016. Since 2017 fossil fuel subsidies skyrocketed, and eclipse all else.

 

tstorm823

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As much as would be invited by rigging 100 separate suits? Uhrm, no, of course not. That would invite investigation and reporting on each as its filed and settled, over months and potentially years, and subjection to safeguarding procedure. This way, its one and done, quickly forgotten by most media, and the allocation is ordered exempt from safeguarding requirements.
That fund pays out 5x this amount annually across thousands of cases, all of which are functionally invisible. It is not less conspicuous to do one giant block of payment and then publicize it. You are silly.
 

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The official renders for the Trump mobile phone don't even have the right number of stripes on the American flag. Fucking lol.

1779332347303.png
 
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Silvanus

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That fund pays out 5x this amount annually across thousands of cases, all of which are functionally invisible. It is not less conspicuous to do one giant block of payment and then publicize it. You are silly.
Thousands of cases... which require judicial involvement in coming to settlement each and every time and are subject to safeguarding rules.
 

tstorm823

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Thousands of cases... which require judicial involvement in coming to settlement each and every time and are subject to safeguarding rules.
Did this settlement have judicial involvement? Did it make it through safeguarding rules?
 

Silvanus

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Did this settlement have judicial involvement? Did it make it through safeguarding rules?
Indeed it did! He was able to game the system, controlling both plaintiff and defendant. And because he could do it once, he could therefore just as easily have done it 1000 times, is that what you're getting at?

Just imagine pursuing this line of reasoning elsewhere. "You allege my client stole £100m. But it would've been just as easy for him to have stolen £500 increments, a million times, netting him even more! After all, the same security would have been in place to stop him! This proves his initial taking was legit and fair".

I think you well know this slush fund is both brazenly corrupt and politically embarrassing for a party that purports to care about financial rigour. Because you're neither stupid nor completely unaware of how transparently self-serving it looks. Yet for reasons of tribal loyalty you feel compelled to defend the worst, most venal excesses, or at least try to muddy the waters with this limp guff. You debase yourself.
 

tstorm823

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I think you well know this slush fund is both brazenly corrupt and politically embarrassing for a party that purports to care about financial rigour.
On the contrary, the initial lawsuit looks brazenly corrupt, the settlement tremendously less so, and your interpretation of the settlement makes no sense at any level. If you are in control of both halves of the lawsuit and can pay yourself off that way, and that was the goal, why would you set up an account to pay other people money instead of yourself? If the goal from the beginning was to sneak through the fund to pay off Trump's allies, why make Trump the actual plaintiff?

There's no way to make it make sense as "this was the corrupt goal from the beginning", it's just real life plot holes all the way down. The situation where Trump's behavior here makes any sense is exactly the most obvious thing, two adversarial parties settling a suit on terms they are willing to accept.
 

Silvanus

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On the contrary, the initial lawsuit looks brazenly corrupt, the settlement tremendously less so, and your interpretation of the settlement makes no sense at any level. If you are in control of both halves of the lawsuit and can pay yourself off that way, and that was the goal, why would you set up an account to pay other people money instead of yourself?
Paying himself wasn't necessarily the goal. Paying political allies was, or funding a pet project that aims to embolden his supporters.

Think about what your question implies, here. That if someone does something to enrich his allies, rather than himself personally, it cannot be corrupt? Come off it.

If the goal from the beginning was to sneak through the fund to pay off Trump's allies, why make Trump the actual plaintiff?
Direct control, and publicity.

There's no way to make it make sense as "this was the corrupt goal from the beginning", it's just real life plot holes all the way down.
You have yet to identify one. Your issues so far have either been completely nonsensical, or just boil down to incredulity.

The situation where Trump's behavior here makes any sense is exactly the most obvious thing, two adversarial parties settling a suit on terms they are willing to accept.
Ah yes, those "adversarial" parties conveniently controlled by the same man.
 

Schadrach

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On the contrary, the initial lawsuit looks brazenly corrupt,
Because it is.

the settlement tremendously less so,
To be clear, the settlement creates a fund controlled by a council of 5 that is appointed by and serves solely at Trump's will with no oversight, and no real transparency to pay out essentially arbitrary amounts to whoever they decide (and again they are explicitly chosen by and serve solely at Trump's pleasure). Also, this fund and whole mechanism stops shortly before Trump leaves office, making this a machine for Trump to disburse tax funds to whoever he wants with a level of indirection so he can pretend it isn't that.

And then there's the bit that makes Trump, his family and affiliated persons barred from being audited or pursued for unpaid taxes.

If you are in control of both halves of the lawsuit and can pay yourself off that way, and that was the goal, why would you set up an account to pay other people money instead of yourself?
Because sometimes you need to pay off others, and having a handful of his chosen puppets disburse tax funds to whoever he chooses is a great way to do so without having to spend his own money and with a veneer of it being legitimate. Want to bet whether or not a few major figures involved in J6 get big payoffs (people like Rhodes and Tarrio who likely played a significant role in organizing), and rank and file J6ers get smaller but still still substantial payoffs? I mean, this would literally be Trump paying them tax money for attacking the Capitol on his behalf, with a paper thin veneer of plausible deniability. And yes, the goal would be to signal that going along with his plans in the future is a worthwhile endeavor.

If the goal from the beginning was to sneak through the fund to pay off Trump's allies, why make Trump the actual plaintiff?
Essentially Trump sued Trump to make Trump, family and friends immune to the IRS and to create a way for Trump to give payouts to whoever he wants in arbitrary amounts, AFAIK he's not barred from some of that going to people close to him or even he himself. The tax immunity would be a lot harder to put in place if Trump weren't a plaintiff. Also this fund can only be challenged by Plaintiffs, Defendants and the United States - all of which are Trump.

On a related note, an important distinction between a pardon and commutation is that in a commutation you can still claim to be not guilty but in a pardon you are guilty and cannot challenge that fact meaning you can no longer plead the 5th regarding the relevant conduct. I expect the 14 people who were commuted instead of pardoned are likely to receive larger than average payments from this fund, not like anyone but the AG in a confidential quarterly report will ever know.

On another related note, I'm just going to point out that the Trump admin has argued that the Presidential Records Act is unconstitutional and that all records from his terms are Trump's private property to keep private, disclose, or destroy at his sole whim. There's a reason Trump is fighting against records from his presidency (either term) being a matter of government record, and it's not his alleged belief in transparency.
 

Silvanus

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Question: Why did he do this?
Your answer: To bypass oversight, and also simultaneously for the publicity
You really are trying quite desperately to manufacture a contradiction, here. Put an iota of thought into this and you can see there isn't one.

Publicity is for the public and sympathetic media. Having his name on the suit means his supporters can see "Trump vs corrupt DOJ to get justice".

Oversight is a function of official bodies and investigators. Public figures frequently court the former and want to limit the latter.

Are they oversight or aren't they? You can't pick both.
Are what oversight? Do you mean "are settlements from the judgement fund subject to oversight or are they not"?

Assuming that's what you meant, the answer is, "Yes, they are subject to oversight, albeit inadequate". I have never picked both and this contradicts nothing I've said.
 

tstorm823

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Are what oversight? Do you mean "are settlements from the judgement fund subject to oversight or are they not"?
No, I mean is the department of justice oversight. That is the oversight that would prevent Trump from "settling" a case with himself on whatever terms he likes. Without this explicit fund, that is who stands in his way, and you seem to value that oversight, but describe them as "controlled by the same man" in the next breath.

Government corruption is not novel. Paying off allies is not new. Why would he use a new, novel process to do what he already could have?