The "Cancellation" of J.K. Rowling

[Dwarvenhobble]

This came up in another thread and has developed legs in there so to try and keep that one from going off topic more and seeing as people seem to want to talk about it I thought'd I'd set up this thread (probably against my better judgement) for talking about this.

The issue stems from two main tweets from J.K.Rowling which have been deemed transphobic by an amount of people


and


Additional material that maybe so some use understanding this and for the sake of arguments here


^Summarises probably 100 or so years of research into sex differences in terms of neurology and psychology rather than the more common arguments around Physiology

 

[Specter Von Baren]

^Summarises probably 100 or so years of research into sex differences in terms of neurology and psychology rather than the more common arguments around Physiology

I'm going to be an annoying git because it's my thing.

An almost hour long video is a summary?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I'm going to be an annoying git because it's my thing.

An almost hour long video is a summary?

In adult men and women there does seem to be a difference in neurological make up which can influence actions this has been shown in studies of monkeys related to toy preference and in humans in relation to spacial reasoning vs emotional reasoning and Dr Ragini Verma has proved he synaptic structure in adult men vs adult women can explain these differences.

The only argument left is if it's due to nature or nurture and there is no ethical way to ever prove which but the evidence for nurture isn't that strong considering monkeys in nature show toy preferences based on sex.

Additional info that has come from research mentioned in the show since have shown Trans individuals have synaptic structures more in common with the opposite sex to their birth sex.

 

[Thaluikhain]

The issue stems from two main tweets from J.K.Rowling which have been deemed transphobic by an amount of people

And quite a lot of other stuff she's done previously.

After Harry Potter, for example, she also wrote another series under a pen name and claimed to be a veteran of the Gulf War so people would be more likely to want to read it.

 

[Trunkage]

Can we stop calling criticism ‘cancelling’? It’s literally getting ridiculous

 

[Hawki]

Can we stop calling criticism ‘cancelling’? It’s literally getting ridiculous

Not all criticism is cancelling, but cancelling does exist. To keep this with Rowling, some staff in Hachette have expressed concern about her upcoming work, The Ichabog. The argument being that the tweets/essay are transphobic, and ergo, the book shouldn't be published.

Broadly speaking, criticism is when you criticize what people say/write. Cancelling is when you take away their ability to speak/write. And this goes well beyond Rowling, and has for awhile.

Edit: An extension of this is the trawling of tweets. James Gunn is the example that comes to mind. Gunn made some tweets about something years before he worked for Disney. When the tweets resurfaced, he said he regretted them, and was a different person. This didn't stop him from being fired. Gunn isn't the only one, and it isn't always tweets, and the outcome isn't always the same. For instance, Sarah Jeong escaped being punished by the NYT for her tweets, while Justin Trudeau was still re-elected after he was revealed he used blackface about a decade ago. If we were talking about murder or rape, sure (see Kevin Spacey/House of Cards), but tweets, uttered outside the place of employment? That's iffy.

Edit 2: Also the removal of works. For instance, Fawlty Towers had its episode The Germans temporarily removed, as the major uses some...questionable, language inside it. The entire point of the scene is to highlight how out of touch the major is, which ties in with Basil's ineptitude around the titular Germans. Now, the episode was re-introduced (I don't know if the major scene was left in), but in the interim, all Fawlty Towers DVDs on Amazon were temporarily sold out. It's backfire effect in action, which why I'm left to ask, does cancel culture even work? Because Fawlty Towers doesn't deserve immunity from criticism (no work is above criticism, just as no person is below dignity), but if you remove a work, it's going to make it all the more appealing to own it, either as a finger to the powers that be, or out of fear that one may not be able to have access to it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Can we stop calling criticism ‘cancelling’? It’s literally getting ridiculous

Are you criticising calling criticism ‘cancelling’, or asking for calling criticism ‘cancelling’ to be cancelled?

 

[Zeke davis]

Can we stop calling criticism ‘cancelling’? It’s literally getting ridiculous

When the normalized avenue for criticism makes people on the receiving end feel like this it's an understandable feeling if still ridiculous.
That however is a systemic problem not one that's only inherent to any one ideology; of which JK herself and the women she promotes was complicit in.

That being said....i agree OP doesn't have the full picture.

 

[Trunkage]

Are you criticising calling criticism ‘cancelling’, or asking for calling criticism ‘cancelling’ to be cancelled?

I’m criticising the people who think every criticism is Cancelling that person. It was also phrased as a question

 

[Trunkage]

Not all criticism is cancelling, but cancelling does exist. To keep this with Rowling, some staff in Hachette have expressed concern about her upcoming work, The Ichabog. The argument being that the tweets/essay are transphobic, and ergo, the book shouldn't be published.

Broadly speaking, criticism is when you criticize what people say/write. Cancelling is when you take away their ability to speak/write. And this goes well beyond Rowling, and has for awhile.

Is someone taking away Rowling’s ability to write?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I'd just like to point out I put cancellation in quotation marks for the very specific reason people seem to be getting annoyed about here.

I guess no-one realised that there might be a reason for that.......

 

[Zeke davis]

Is someone taking away Rowling’s ability to write?

People have trouble distinguishing between "I don't want this published here", "I don't want this published anywhere" "I don't want work on publishing this".
The news article I've looked up online don't bother clarifying any of these

 

[Hawki]

Is someone taking away Rowling’s ability to write?

To write, no. To be published, yes (if it happens).

 

[Zeke davis]

To write, no. To be published, yes (if it happens).

One place showing you the boot doesn't really impact your overall rights.
Forgive me for assuming a millionaire can find a way to reach her audience just fine in terms of what would actually happen.

 

[Trunkage]

To write, no. To be published, yes (if it happens).

Is that a problem? She can still write. She can self publish. I’m sure Coch or Praeger would be willing to fund her.

I'd just like to point out I put cancellation in quotation marks for the very specific reason people seem to be getting annoyed about here.

I guess no-one realised that there might be a reason for that.......

Yeah, I got it.

I was just asking if we could stop calling it cancelling. I’m detesting how the word ‘cancel culture’ is thrown out there to stifle debate or criticism. I’m also detesting how threats of rape and murder don’t get a backlash but threats of not buying a book is seen as the worst and should be banned. (Or rather cancelled.)

Edit: have you guys read Shapiros or Rubin’s books? They’re way worse than Rowling. And they find publishing books really easy

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

To write, no. To be published, yes (if it happens).

Incoming argument that she can self publish on Amazon or go to another publisher.

Followed by the argument (if she were to get banned from publishing on Amazon or denied by other publishers) that she can go to the printers and have the book printed and do all he distribution and marketing and shipping herself.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Is that a problem? She can still write. She can self publish. I’m sure Coch or Praeger would be willing to fund her.


Yeah, I got it.

I was just asking if we could stop calling it cancelling. I’m detesting how the word ‘cancel culture’ is thrown out there to stifle debate or criticism. I’m also detesting how threats of rape and murder don’t get a backlash but threats of not buying a book is seen as the worst and should be banned. (Or rather cancelled.)

J.K. Rowling has been getting people saying they want her dead just FYI.

Though this isn't that new she was getting them before and had to have a security gate installed a her hope in the past few months.

 

[Hawki]

One place showing you the boot doesn't really impact your overall rights.
Forgive me for assuming a millionaire can find a way to reach her audience just fine in terms of what would actually happen.

Rowling's in a better position to survive than other people. But it's the principle that matters.

I've already listed examples up people in similar circumstances, some of whom got fired, some of whom weren't. It doesn't take long for people to at least perceie a double standard. Plus, the questionable act of dredging up old tweets and springing out "gothca."

But there's the more practical side of things. Does cancel culture even work? Because so far, the evidence suggests that it hasn't. If you try to ban works, people will want to get those works. If you try to ban people, listening to them will seem all the more appealing.

 

[Zeke davis]

Is that a problem? She can still write. She can self publish. I’m sure Coch or Praeger would be willing to fund her.


Yeah, I got it.

I was just asking if we could stop calling it cancelling. I’m detesting how the word ‘cancel culture’ is thrown out there to stifle debate or criticism. I’m also detesting how threats of rape and murder don’t get a backlash but threats of not buying a book is seen as the worst and should be banned. (Or rather cancelled.)

Edit: have you guys read Shapiros or Rubin’s books? They’re way worse than Rowling. And they find publishing books really easy

Getting death threats is part and parcel and what getting "Canceled" entails.
This just mean a problem with cancel culture as a term is that it's collapses actions all under one umberila and equalizes them

That both softens what getting death threats means(To the point it wasn't brought in this op) and while treating the "Crime" of "Just being irrationally offended at something" as worse than it is.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

I was just asking if we could stop calling it cancelling. I’m detesting how the word ‘cancel culture’ is thrown out there to stifle debate or criticism.

Did you stop to think that people hate cancel culture because it's used to stifle debate and criticism?