Jim Sterling sheds light on The Escapist's previous parent company

[Exley97]

How were we supposed to know? Are you blaming us for not breaking into Defy Media's private email server to find out this long-held secret?

We apologize for not being omniscient.

I apologize, I wasn't clear in my previous post.
I'm not blaming you or any GGer for not knowing about an episode that was not public knowledge at the time.
And I'm not blaming early GGers who got swept up in the movement and bought into the vast amounts of bullshit that were being pushed, namely here on the Escapist Forums. I talked with many of those folks, on the now-deleted megathread and in private, and I thought then and still do think that many of them were will-intentioned albeit seriously misinformed and misguided.

However...

I do blame Defy Media and Achron for being total and absolute frauds on journalism ethics.

And I blame a lot of the supporters of that movement who refused to realize/acknowledge it had nothing to do with journalism ethics. It was a culture war. You can't make an honest case for that movement caring about ethics when time and again, we saw other outlets and streamers doing *actual* unethical shit, and instead of caring about that institutional rot, they were going insane over Anita freakin' Sarkeesian videos.

So when, for example, some extremely popular streamers get in trouble for not disclosing their "sponsored" videos that are essentially paid advertisements, and they're cited in an official complaint from the Federal fucking Trade Commission for unethical practices, and the movement doesn't so much as making a fucking peep and
instead actually rallies around those people and defend them, then they don't have a fucking leg to stand on when it comes to arguing about ethics in games journalism.

 

[JoJo]

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Hey,

While I appreciate that the conversation has been civil so far, please don't forget that discussing Gamergate in any context is against the Code of Conduct.

 

[Exley97]

Hey,

While I appreciate that the conversation has been civil so far, please don't forget that discussing Gamergate in any context is against the Code of Conduct.

Apologies, and thanks for the reminder!

 

[fOx]

I don’t have much to say about her. My first interaction with her was her getting all her colleagues / friends to dogpile me over literally nothing on Twitter, and they’ve done that to a TON of people while at the same time being these big advocates for mental health. Cause as long as it’s people they disagree with, it’s OK to go after them and fuck their mental health up on social media.

I'll be honest, nick. When you showed up, promising a new escapist with a more positive atmosphere, I didn't think you could do it. We've had so many leaders, all saying the same thing, for so long, that it came across as white noise. I figured, at best, you were a decent person who would get burnt out after a month, and then leave. And then we'd have another person making the same promises. That was the trend.

But you're the one who actually did it. So kudos to you and your team, because it's been noticed by a lot of people here. I hope your hard work pays off. And for the record, some of the content produced lately has been some of my favorite from this site, ever. I really liked that documentary on darkest dungeon. I even learned a few things about development from watching it. I'm sorry you still have to deal with so much baggage from the past.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I'll be honest, nick. When you showed up, promising a new escapist with a more positive atmosphere, I didn't think you could do it. We've had so many leaders, all saying the same thing, for so long, that it came across as white noise. I figured, at best, you were a decent person who would get burnt out after a month, and then leave. And then we'd have another person making the same promises. That was the trend.

But you're the one who actually did it. So kudos to you and your team, because it's been noticed by a lot of people here. I hope your hard work pays off. And for the record, some of the content produced lately has been some of my favorite from this site, ever. I really liked that documentary on darkest dungeon. I even learned a few things about development from watching it. I'm sorry you still have to deal with so much baggage from the past.

Thanks! I definitely love what we've created here and I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. It's nice to be able to come into the forums, or the comments in general and just have good conversations.

The thing about the baggage is it never actually comes from anyone that pays any attention to The Escapist and what it is now. That's the annoying part. It's always someone looking to score Twitter points by stirring up drama, and then I either have to deal with it or just ignore it and move on.

It's frustrating, because we're doing everything in our power to stay out of all that, but there's so many high profile people in games media that just go out looking for things to be mad about and sometimes it comes our way. The most notable example recently was during our Indie Showcase event, a former Kotaku writer told her 50,000 followers that we were all shitbags and that they shouldn't watch or support or showcase, just follow her livetweet thread of it instead.

Literally an event completely focused on positivity and helping spread the word of unknown indie titles and she still found a way to spin it lol.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ha, it was funny when I got dogpiled because I tried to defuse the situation and she just kept pushing it so I blocked her, then her friends started coming after me, so I blocked them too, and then they were mad that I blocked them and I was like, you do understand that I am under no obligation to pay any attention to you people?

Taking after Hideki Kamiya, nice.

The mods haven't brought anything pressing to me in months, and aside from that Yoshi guy actually finding my personal Facebook page and messaging me (seriously, don't do that), all's been fine.

Oh, wow.

 

[Trunkage]

How were we supposed to know? Are you blaming us for not breaking into Defy Media's private email server to find out this long-held secret?

We apologize for not being omniscient.

Jim talked about other events where he pointed out ethics in game journalism gone wrong before GG even got started.

The one that sticks with me was him talking about going to a COD (I think) event locked away in a massive hotel with heaps of tat thrown at them. I think he was working with Destructoid then and he expressed his utter disgust at that shillary.

Sure, we didnt know about this specific Defy thing. But Jim, with Total Biscuit, were the first people I remember talking about ethics in at least 2012. And it's funny how they were treated because they were saying we shouldn't Cancel Zoe Quinn over what she did,: cheatinf on her husband. (Worthy of criticism, maybe not worthy of burn down the internet over.) Let alone all the other collateral people who got Cancelled

Edit:

Hey,

While I appreciate that the conversation has been civil so far, please don't forget that discussing Gamergate in any context is against the Code of Conduct.

Sorry didn't see this

 

[Trunkage]

Thanks! I definitely love what we've created here and I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. It's nice to be able to come into the forums, or the comments in general and just have good conversations.

The thing about the baggage is it never actually comes from anyone that pays any attention to The Escapist and what it is now. That's the annoying part. It's always someone looking to score Twitter points by stirring up drama, and then I either have to deal with it or just ignore it and move on.

It's frustrating, because we're doing everything in our power to stay out of all that, but there's so many high profile people in games media that just go out looking for things to be mad about and sometimes it comes our way. The most notable example recently was during our Indie Showcase event, a former Kotaku writer told her 50,000 followers that we were all shitbags and that they shouldn't watch or support or showcase, just follow her livetweet thread of it instead.

Literally an event completely focused on positivity and helping spread the word of unknown indie titles and she still found a way to spin it lol.

I literally have no idea what you can do about that. Mainly because of what happened, a whole lot of people were trashed. I can understand this old Kotaku write because many Escapist specifically targeted some of those writers. They no longer no what this site is. For example, Jim wouldnt know, so he can say that he approve of the new management.

TBH, I don't know why anyone would pick up this time bomb.

 

[Nick Calandra]

I literally have no idea what you can do about that. Mainly because of what happened, a whole lot of people were trashed. I can understand this old Kotaku write because many Escapist specifically targeted some of those writers. They no longer no what this site is. For example, Jim wouldnt know, so he can say that he approve of the new management.

TBH, I don't know why anyone would pick up this time bomb.

Oh I understand and sympathize with all those people and if they never want to associate with the brand again, that's fine. But it was also what, 5-6 years ago now? Nobody involved here now had anything to do with any of it. There's no justification for harassing the people working on it now, when we had nothing to do with any of that.

Either way, I think we've done a lot to address the image of the brand both through our content, messaging and doing events like the Extra Life stream, the Indie Showcase events, etc. At some point, if people decide to keep looking past all that and shit on us anyways, then it's on them to figure it out and move on with their lives.

As for the timebomb comment, I'm finishing up my first year as EIC a week from today and nothing bad has happened in the entire last year aside from a few snipes at us. The community is happy, we've built a lot of bridges back up with PR groups and I've worked with developers for more than 10 years now between my time running my previous outlets, the documentaries and that culminated in the showcase. I think we're doing just fine.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Oh I understand and sympathize with all those people and if they never want to associate with the brand again, that's fine. But it was also what, 5-6 years ago now? Nobody involved here now had anything to do with any of it. There's no justification for harassing the people working on it now, when we had nothing to do with any of that.

People will hold a grudge against others for what their great-great-great-great-great grandfathers did in today's world. A director was fired for things he said years ago and already apologized for. 5-6 years might as well be yesterday in this reality.

Side note: What mountain is that in the background of your avatar? Is our manager a mountain man?

 

[Nick Calandra]

People will hold a grudge against others for what their great-great-great-great-great grandfathers did in today's world. A director was fired for things he said years ago and already apologized for. 5-6 years might as well be yesterday in this reality.

And that's why I just don't give them the time of day at this point. Like I said, doing our own thing, having fun, if people want to be mad and negative all the time, I don't wanna interact with them haha.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

And that's why I just don't give them the time of day at this point. Like I said, doing our own thing, having fun, if people want to be mad and negative all the time, I don't wanna interact with them haha.

Stay strong dude, it's heartening to see you want to work hard for this.

 

[Gordon_4]

The forum lived in peace, until the Sarkeesian came...

I didn’t realise it was her fault other people acted like complete tools.

 

[Dreiko]

I didn’t realise it was her fault other people acted like complete tools.

No of course, her fault was exploiting that into something more widespread than your average 4chan trolling event. You know, like those cases where 4chan folks put up posters saying "Islam is right about women" all over a town in England. It's not such a big deal lol.

 

[BrawlMan]

I didn’t realise it was her fault other people acted like complete tools.

This. As much as I have no respect and dislike her, all those people chose to act like assholes. She did not force them.

 

[Gordon_4]

No of course, her fault was exploiting that into something more widespread than your average 4chan trolling event. You know, like those cases where 4chan folks put up posters saying "Islam is right about women" all over a town in England. It's not such a big deal lol.

Unless she’s Charles Xavier or Jean Grey, she’s not responsible for anything other than her own actions. Same as me. Same as you.

Christ I’m so glad something more important happened to me on the day of the sundering.

 

[Dreiko]

Unless she’s Charles Xavier or Jean Grey, she’s not responsible for anything other than her own actions. Same as me. Same as you.

Christ I’m so glad something more important happened to me on the day of the sundering.

That's what I'm saying. If you wave a red rag in front of a bull and then say it's not your fault the bull gored you you are technically correct, simultaneously you are ignoring the bull's nature however.

Yes, the internet mob by all means shouldn't have backed her kickstarter and raised her profile as it did. It was a bad thing to do and it caused tons of needless friction. By all means all the affronted first world feminists and internet fatties didn't need to gore our communities with their politics, but again, it is in their nature, and flaunting that narrative she did was akin to the proverbial red capote. Not her fault but she knew what was happening at least once the bull started raging about and all she did was jump in a barrel of red paint and run all over the place like a gleeful child with a bug at the end of a stick chasing all the other kids around.

 

[Nick Calandra]

Keep thread on topic regarding Jim's video ^^

 

[Trunkage]

No of course, her fault was exploiting that into something more widespread than your average 4chan trolling event. You know, like those cases where 4chan folks put up posters saying "Islam is right about women" all over a town in England. It's not such a big deal lol.

It’s funny how every event like this gets blamed on 4chan and trolls

Also, funny how we have Cancelling today, isn’t it. It can’t be related to the zerg swarms of the past trying to take people out./sarcasm.

We lost the fight against Cancelling in 2012, particularly because we just blamed it ‘on the trolls‘ instead of taking responsibility

 

[09philj]

Game companies have repeatedly tried to lean on sites to try to get them to provide favourable coverage, and use whatever dirty tricks they can to get smaller reviewers and commentators to play along with them. The joke was always that the big publishers were paying IGN and co off, but really what they actually did (and do) is threaten to kick the site off their PR circuit, which will decrease traffic and kill the site if it happened enough. No editors want to gamble with their and their subordinates jobs, hence the mainstream gaming press's reputation for being ridiculously soft on AAA games. There were obviously carrots dangled to help keep them pliant (Exclusive "review events" for example) but by and large what really keeps the press in line is the massive stick the AAA publishers will ram up their arse if they step out of line. They mostly don't even then take that money and use it to finance interesting journalism because their audience are so high on the corporate/party line that they can't handle anything that might constitute criticism of the games industry. This is hardly limited to games journalism; many kinds of consumer journalism suffer the same fate. It's just more noticeable in the always online 24/7 adventure that is the games industry.