No, I'm claiming the Dems are no slouch to propaganda machines. Do you not remember the Obama election campaign?
Bernie/Biden task force presents suggestions
- Thread starter dreng3
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If you're going to claim with a straight face that the propaganda machine from the Dems is anywhere near as prolific as the GOP, you're probably the target market for the GOP's propaganda.
Both-sides-ism is possibly one of the most poisonous thing to ever happen to American political discourse.
Do you even use the internet for anything other than visiting this forum? This is why Pheonix and Escaraxe have had to debate with you guys for 17 pages.
And it's not both sideism, stop using that excuse every time someone brings up that the Democrats shit smells too. There's only one side I have a problem with, politicians.
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If you think this is a case of the two things being equal, then yes, it's playing the both sides game and you should feel bad about having done it. Because to think that MSNBC is in any way leftist, you have to be either lying or a Republican, but I repeat myself.
You think MSNBC is any where near as effective a propaganda machine as Fox News or that it's in any way a leftist organization? You're actually going to claim that with a straight face? First you complain that nobody is as progressive as you, now you're trying to tell me the network that let Chuck Todd be a professional doormat for years is this well-honed propaganda machine that can compete with the right wing noise machine.
Christ, what's your next piece of evidence for the liberal media? Facebook?
I don't know where you guys are getting the delusions that progressives have this massive media arm or that the establishment Democrats propaganda is on the same level as the GOP, but it really just sounds like the both of you just want an excuse to complain about literally everything.
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The majority of news outlets of the internet lean left. College institutions also heavily lean left, which influences what they put out in terms of people and papers. I really have never and still do not understand how people can claim with a straight face that they represent the majority of people and yet also claim they are weak and incapable of doing anything. It is the most backasswards thing.
It's not really hard to understand. Universal across American politics is victimhood and preaching rhetoric about how they're the class that's under siege by "the other guys". That's how the right frames things. That's how the left frames things. That's how progressives frames things. That's how all races and genders and sexualities frame things. It's how single issue voters frame things. Universal. Always the underdog in a battle to hang on to, or receive, that which is rightfully theirs.
Right, because what those voices want sucks. What I want is good.
Obviously it doesn't even most of the time, but it's the only way out.
In some ways, the peasants have more power than the lords. In others, they don't. The same goes for the working class and the ruling class of any society. The ruling class holds onto its power by keeping the working class divided by various means. Sometimes that means an unequal distribution of harms among the workers (by race, gender, etc.), other times that means simply promoting an ideology or ideologies that justify the position and power of the ruling class. If the working class would but come together in solidarity, they have the power to remake society to their own taste. The trouble is getting that to actually happen.
And as for MSNBC, Buyetyen is quite correct to say I don't have a propaganda machine like Fox News not so much because MSNBC isn't a propaganda machine but because it is my enemy. MSNBC works for the capitalists.
Ok, but this is deliberate both-sidesing. Like, Fox News ran with the motto "fair and balanced" for years. It wasn't meant to be deceptive, they know that they aren't fair or balanced in a vacuum. They know they're blatantly and unapologetically pushing Republican rhetoric. That motto was meant to say "if the other news channels are going to be so blatantly one sided, two can play at that game. That's fair and balanced." The propaganda machine you're upset about is a direct response to the Democrats' propaganda machine, it only exists to be both sides doing it.
That's probably because you don't actually listen to people.
Facts are good things to have, but if you use them as a blunt instrument you're doing it wrong.
How do you know somebody has never watched MSNBC? They think it's a leftist outlet.
Actually, my opinion is the complete opposite. MSNBC is a part of the right-wing noise machine, masquerading as progressive, pied piper'ing the "moderates" so extensively discussed as part of this thread to neoconservatism. Being that it's more or less the definitive face of the Democratic national party in the media, it's a fairly good vector for understanding where Democrats' head space is at.
And if this election is indeed "Trump or Biden" with no room for nuance, exception, or refusal to play, if you're "team Biden" that's with whom your companies lies every bit as much as mine is presumed to be Trump's. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
It has in less than four years re-ignited sentiment straight from the Cold War based on a hoax, normalized neoconservatism among Democrats, redeemed the worst actors during the Bush administration, and pushed discourse among Democrats so rightward that raising FICA, eliminating fracking, ending US interventionism, limiting state surveillance, and enacting substantive police reform is perceived as extreme leftist positions. MSNBC defamed Tulsi for months as somehow simultaneously an Assad/Putin stooge and left-wing kook, and all Tulsi did was dare have the same policy positions endorsed by Democrats in 2006 and 2008.
As effective a propaganda machine as Fox News? Oh no dear friend, MSNBC has been orders of magnitude more effective than Fox News ever has been or ever could have hoped to be.
Well congratulations on being less credulous than people who still believe in the liberal media conspiracy. And my original point was that the left don't have a media machine to churn out propaganda for them like the right do. And you more or less agreed with me on that. So what point were you trying to make exactly? Is there even a point or is this thread now just a general airing of grievances?
Don't forget that they, among others, worked with Clinton and the DNC to get Trump on the ballot and thus, in office. MSNBC et al are responsible for Trump on behalf of the DNC.
WikiLeaks Reveals DNC Elevated Trump to Help Clinton
Democrats expected the FBI investigation into Clinton’s email server to be a major problem—which Donald Trump solved.
observer.com
The only "conspiracy" that exists is there's a cartel of four multinationals that collectively own 95% of all media consumed by Americans which are only accountable to shareholders and have a single mandate to generate profit rather than inform the American public, and half of those four corporations are telecoms. Past that it's about a dozen dickbag billionaires like Bezos who own trophy outlets for prestige and status, and abuse editorial control to push corporate-friendly news. All else is a fuckin' sideshow to keep people from noticing it's the same owners saying different bullshit to different demos to sell ads, and guess what, you're perpetuating it by pushing the left/right narrative.
As I've been told repeatedly, at the end of the day this is "Trump or Biden", and there's no room for anything else as this is a moral choice of the first order, or whatever. That bullshit's on your side of the aisle, own it.
I mean, at the end of the election either Trump or Biden is going to be president no matter how hard you protest vote. If your pride is getting in the way of understanding that brute fact, that's a you problem. Quit taking it out on the rest of us. I can't make you vote one way or the other. But this endless antagonistic whining is getting really old.
