Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[Houseman]

You're suggesting Games Journalist publications don't let anybody who doesn't meet some arbitrary level of expertise *at all times* ever, ever cover games. And if they fuck up in public, even once, despite the disclaimer literally being in the title, they should be removed from games coverage immediately.

That's not what I said. I said that there's an issue of misaligned expectations between gamers, who expect expertise, and journalists, who don't.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's not what I said. I said that there's an issue of misaligned expectations between gamers, who expect expertise, and journalists, who don't.

Except you literally did.
You want them shut down until they meet your standard or are burned down.

Spoiler

Because that's not enough.

Let's say you own a restaurant. You've created a nice little walled garden out front so customers can eat outside. It's pleasant, and clean and safe and the food is good.
However, your restaurant is the exception. 9 times out of 10, if you enter any other restaurant, it's horrible. It's infested with rats, there are addicts doing heroin in the bathroom (which is never cleaned), and the food is gross.

So when people complain about the other restaurants, you say "Why complain about those places? My place is nice and clean and rat-free! Just come here and never go to those places again!"

Well, because those places still exist and are an absolute blight on the town. They need to be fumigated, and the rats exterminated, or otherwise burned down. They're breeding grounds for disease and cause no shortage of problems for everyone else. People from the next town over go to those places as a joke, solely to make fun of them. The restaurant needs to be protested, people need to be made aware of the problems, the mayor needs to be alerted, and Vice needs to be called in to make a documentary.

And not even on the Public Safety grounds your analogy alludes to. A three year old article that explicitly said "I did so bad at this game it's shameful but the game is good" isn't going to physically harm somebody. Or any other number of examples of First Look style videos where the gameplay wasn't pro-tier. If a restaurant is merely Bad, it won't be long in this world. And if it sticks around, maybe your opinion of it isn't the majority you expect.

It's been literal years. "Gamers" should take the hint and stop engaging with media they know they don't like. Then, as if by magic, that media would disappear. And they aren't doing that, so clearly Not All Gamers expect expertise on the same level as you.

 

[Houseman]

Except you literally did.
You want them shut down until they meet your standard or are burned down.

If that's the post you were referring to, you should have quoted to and replied to that post, instead of the post where I merely say that it's a case of misaligned expectations.

In any case, both are true. People have an expectation that their restaurants be rat and filth free. The restaurant owners disagree. It's a case of misaligned expectations as well as the good citizens of the town wanting better for their community.

If a restaurant is merely Bad, it won't be long in this world. And if it sticks around, maybe your opinion of it isn't the majority you expect.

Or maybe the restaurant stays open, not because it receives good local reviews, but because it's a national chain that continues to pump money into it, a national chain that doesn't care about the local populace. A chain that caters more to tourists wanting the same, lowest-common-demoninator McMeal wherever they are in the world.

It's been literal years. "Gamers" should take the hint and stop engaging with media they know they don't like.

Maybe this has already happened. Maybe "gamers" have, and the only ones keeping those bad examples afloat are, as in the parable of the restaurants, tourists and parent companies. Maybe ever since they decided that gamers don't have to be your audience, they switched over to focus on a new audience.

Just because some of us know that Dean is still producing reviews, it doesn't mean that we are the ones keeping him afloat. His video has very few views, for example.

 

[Houseman]

Oh, and about this:

He literally called it "my 26 minutes of shame" in the headline.

I did some digging and found an archive. Allegedly , the title of the video was changed at a later date. The original title was "Cuphead gameplay: It's not easy"

https://archive.fo/Sdcwt#selection-8555.0-8555.116

So if true, then wasn't that just sneaky of them in order to try and make it seem like they were all up-front and self-aware from the beginning. The story that they intentionally published it because they thought it would be funny now seems a bit suspect... kind of like they made up that story after the fact in order to save face.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

That's my point exactly though. All of the people constantly hating on the things you mentioned KEEP GOING BACK. Lol.

Heh. There's a reason I haven't posted hereabouts since 2018.

But, I know folks who post here, so:

I've read enough Kotaku in my time to know I never feel like I get anything of value from reading their stuff aside from Jason's big reports. So I stopped reading them.

Polygon used to be fun to read and I love their Cover Stories, but the rest of their stuff aside from news is just negative all the time. So I stopped reading them.

People spend so much time bitching and complaining about these sites they don't like, writers they don't like, and then don't go out and support or help promote the sites / writers they do like. It's ridiculous how much time people spend just being angry about this sort of stuff. If you're really that bothered by it, remove the toxicity from your life and move on to content you do like.

I've also pretty much dropped all forms of games journalism outside of some youtubers I align with in terms of taste and, yes, sometimes politics. Both those sites, Polygon and Kotaku (VG24/7, RPS, etc.), used to be all right- even enjoyable, way back in the before times pre-2011 or so. But we all know the history. We all know how things have changed over the last decade in regards to gaming news media as well as news media in general. But those outlets, flagging though they may be, still somehow have quite a bit of clout; a lot of sway over the industry, at least outwardly.

Whether any of us choose to interact with them directly, complain about them elsewhere, or simply ignore their existence, they've had and continue to have an undeniable impact on the hobby, including the stuff I actually do enjoy and have attempted to move on to in order to avoid them.

That said? Obsessing over it certainly isn't going to make you happier. I do agree.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

If that's the post you were referring to, you should have quoted to and replied to that post, instead of the post where I merely say that it's a case of misaligned expectations.

Your arguments do not exist in a vacuum, regardless of how convenient that would be.

In any case, both are true. People have an expectation that their restaurants be rat and filth free. The restaurant owners disagree. It's a case of misaligned expectations as well as the good citizens of the town wanting better for their community.

And if you were talking about promotional reviews or shady business practices, I could see your point.
Instead, it occasional slightly sub-par gameplay videos.

Or maybe the restaurant stays open, not because it receives good local reviews, but because it's a national chain that continues to pump money into it, a national chain that doesn't care about the local populace. A chain that caters more to tourists wanting the same, lowest-common-demoninator McMeal wherever they are in the world.

If a new McDonalds opening up is a threat to local businesses, those local businesses are shit.

Maybe this has already happened. Maybe "gamers" have, and the only ones keeping those bad examples afloat are, as in the parable of the restaurants, tourists and parent companies. Maybe ever since they decided that gamers don't have to be your audience, they switched over to focus on a new audience.

I mean, I don't want my audience to consist of Gamers who'd want me to quit my job the moment I lose two lives in a row to that first Goomba in 1-1, so that article makes sense to me.

 

[Dreiko]

You're suggesting Games Journalist publications don't let anybody who doesn't meet some arbitrary level of expertise *at all times* ever, ever cover games. And if they fuck up in public, even once, despite the disclaimer literally being in the title, they should be removed from games coverage immediately.

All because Gamers shouldn't have to find writers and publications they actually like and support those instead. If all y'all nerds stopped clicking on this stuff, they'd cease to exist. That's how the business works. There's dozens of defunct game sites to prove it.

And if people *keep* clicking on their stuff, well...what do you expect? All the personal attacks and 43 minute Games Journalism Bad YouTube rage videos in the world won't stop it. That's how the business works. Just like how every other YouTube gaming controversy is some kid named Mylar with 2 million subscribers I've never heard about before. I could go get infinitely mad at infinite numbers of gaming personalities, but I just...don't go there.

Hell, 97% of the Games Journalism articles I've read in the last decade I only read because weird nerds were spreading it around to get performatively angry at and I wanted to know what their damage was. And now I get to adda CoD review to that list because the writer was on camera having the same reflexes as I've got when I start a new game.

Might see if there's a demo. Been a hot minute since I've played a CoD

I haven't clicked on anything like that for I don't even know how many years so I do get to complain. Also whenever those weird nerds post articles I always visit them with an archive link to not give them clicks. And no, no matter how tired you are, you can still do better than that. I've legit done better moments before I fell asleep with my controller in my hands and had people take pictures of me sleeping in my gaming pose, cross legged and all. I've done better while being up for a 24 hour charity gaming session for a cancer facility. If anything, the games were keeping me awake. Of course I wasn't doing as well as I do when I'm fresh but I was still beating people I was better than who were fresh.

What goes away when you're tired is your reaction speeds and you tend to auto-pilot more, not your fundamental knowledge.


You're doing this trick here of oversimplifying the issue as that of someone merely "doing bad at a game" when the issue is "HOW someone did bad, in particular". You can do bad at something that's actually hard and nobody will care. You may get some jokes thrown at you but nothing serious. If you do bad at something fundamental, like forgetting how to jump and airdash (or rather, seeming to never having known that it was a thing, in the first place) that's a different matter and that's the actual issue here. It's less "I question your skill as a gamer" and more "I question if you've ever played a videogame for more than 3 minutes before in your entire life".



Finally, not everyone needs to write about every genre of game. Leave the old tech writer to write about slow strategic turn based games (not a dig, those are some of my fav games) and get someone who is into action or sidescrolling games write for the Cupheads out there.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

You're doing this trick here of oversimplifying the issue as that of someone merely "doing bad at a game" when the issue is "HOW someone did bad, in particular". You can do bad at something that's actually hard and nobody will care. You may get some jokes thrown at you but nothing serious. If you do bad at something fundamental, like forgetting how to jump and airdash (or rather, seeming to never having known that it was a thing, in the first place) that's a different matter and that's the actual issue here. It's less "I question your skill as a gamer" and more "I question if you've ever played a videogame for more than 3 minutes before in your entire life".



Finally, not everyone needs to write about every genre of game. Leave the old tech writer to write about slow strategic turn based games (not a dig, those are some of my fav games) and get someone who is into action or sidescrolling games write for the Cupheads out there.

Have you read his article previewing Cuphead? In what way, specifically, does his poor performance on a day 3 convention floor preview event *matter*? If he'd gone with his first instinct and not released the gameplay footage, instead only writing that preview, would you have found anything objectionable in it? Would you even have thought that he might've had an embarrassing outing playing it if he hadn't shown or mentioned his play specifically? And if not, then how does his bad gameplay matter?

All it takes to not know that jump and airdash is a thing is to not notice it saying it's a thing. Dude was clearly trying to Mario his way through.

 

[Dreiko]

Have you read his article previewing Cuphead? In what way, specifically, does his poor performance on a day 3 convention floor preview event *matter*? If he'd gone with his first instinct and not released the gameplay footage, instead only writing that preview, would you have found anything objectionable in it? Would you even have thought that he might've had an embarrassing outing playing it if he hadn't shown or mentioned his play specifically? And if not, then how does his bad gameplay matter?

All it takes to not know that jump and airdash is a thing is to not notice it saying it's a thing. Dude was clearly trying to Mario his way through.

Of course not, like I just said, I don't read these things so I am not giving them clicks so I get to complain.

And I dunno what sort of sidescroller you've played (I've not played a standard mario game in forever) but anything that looks this much megaman/zero-ish you'll instantly expect to let you wallcling and double jump and airdash and so on. Also, no, he was doing the airdash at some point but kept failing at it cause he wasn't doing it at the peak of his jump. Only for a small part did he just not notice he could airdash.

 

[Houseman]

And if you were talking about promotional reviews or shady business practices, I could see your point.
Instead, it occasional slightly sub-par gameplay videos.

It sounds like you're trying to take all of the grievances that gamers have with journalists and pin it on Dean Takahashi's cuphead gameplay video.

Also, this is the problem with mixing up what you're quoting. The Parable of the Restaurants explains the divide between gamers and the industry as a whole. It's not just about Cuphead. To quote it and then talk about Cuphead is to miss the point. At the very least, Dean is just one cook in one of the many bad restaurants.

If a new McDonalds opening up is a threat to local businesses, those local businesses are shit.

Not necessarily. McDonalds has McDonalds money. Which means they have all the money. They can buy the prime real estate, and they have a supply chain that is designed to cut all the costs. They can pump out more food faster, and for less money. This is also how Walmart kills local businesses, not because of their quality artisan products, but because of their low prices and because of how convenient they are.

McDonalds wouldn't be ubiquitous if their strategy didn't work.

I mean, I don't want my audience to consist of Gamers who'd want me to quit my job the moment I lose two lives in a row to that first Goomba in 1-1, so that article makes sense to me.

That's a strawman.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Of course not, like I just said, I don't read these things so I am not giving them clicks so I get to complain.

And I dunno what sort of sidescroller you've played (I've not played a standard mario game in forever) but anything that looks this much megaman/zero-ish you'll instantly expect to let you wallcling and double jump and airdash and so on. Also, no, he was doing the airdash at some point but kept failing at it cause he wasn't doing it at the peak of his jump. Only for a small part did he just not notice he could airdash.

So it was a preview event and he was learning on the fly.

Also, while I haven't played *much* mega man, I certainly don't remember being able to air dash or double jump from the get go, and like half of them don't even let you crouch, so...

(And spoiler, he doesn't *complain* about Cuphead being hard or anything just mentions that it is, so him being bad at it doesn't really effect his preview article. Praised Cuphead extensively in fact. Based on our interactions here, I don't think you'd find any part of it objectionable)

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It sounds like you're trying to take all of the grievances that gamers have with journalists and pin it on Dean Takahashi's cuphead gameplay video.

Also, this is the problem with mixing up what you're quoting. The Parable of the Restaurants explains the divide between gamers and the industry as a whole. It's not just about Cuphead. To quote it and then talk about Cuphead is to miss the point. At the very least, Dean is just one cook in one of the many bad restaurants.

Oh no, I'm talking in general. Like, I'm not even sure what the big exception I was supposed to take with the CoD video, seeing as it didn't have shit to do with fuck regarding the review.

Not necessarily. McDonalds has McDonalds money. Which means they have all the money. They can buy the prime real estate, and they have a supply chain that is designed to cut all the costs. They can pump out more food faster, and for less money. This is also how Walmart kills local businesses, not because of their quality artisan products, but because of their low prices and because of how convenient they are.

McDonalds wouldn't be ubiquitous if their strategy didn't work.

Argument would work better if there weren't several local fast food restaurants in my town that were always packed.
Do they beat McDonalds on sales? Of course not. Do they happily coexist along side? Absolutely! Did they get their regulars by slagging off McDonalds and Burger King and demanding the city shut down those surprisingly clean dens of corporate capitalism? Not a chance, they just have the better product.

 

[Houseman]

Oh no, I'm talking in general.

Then you're taking the grievances of gamers and summing them up to "occasional slightly sub-par gameplay videos"?
In that case, no, that's not the whole story. I think I've explained it before. It's a clear lack of passion that journalists, as a whole, have for video games. Playing poorly is a demonstration of how little they care. Playing poorly is not the root issue, it is is just one piece of evidence that the root issue exists.

so him being bad at it doesn't really effect his preview article.

Well, ACKHUALLY, he missed out on a large chunk of the game because he couldn't progress. His opinion was limited to what he was able to experience in that short amount of time. For example, he didn't even get to experience the bosses, which are arguably the most popular feature of the game.

Even though it was a preview, he could have previewed more, if he were competent.

So yes, his preview was negatively affected.

In contrast, look at this:

Check Out Cuphead's First Few Levels

See how we fared against Studio MDHR's delightful-looking (and difficult) platformer. [Spoiler: We died a lot.]

www.gameinformer.com

They were able to experience more of the game in 14 minutes than Dean did in 26. They were learning on the fly too, so that's no excuse. They were at the same E3 as Dean was. The end result is a better preview that shows more content, (including the bosses) which is what people normally want out of a preview. Good for GameInformer.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Apples and oranges. They're clearly already out of the tutorial *and* they're playing co-op.

Only thing they have in common is being not terribly good.

Having a bad run at a game once in awhile doesn't mean you have a "clear lack of passion...for gaming as a whole". That's fucking absurd. Doubly so when you're generalizing that to an entire profession.

 

[BrawlMan]

I've also pretty much dropped all forms of games journalism outside of some youtubers I align with in terms of taste and, yes, sometimes politics. Both those sites, Polygon and Kotaku (VG24/7, RPS, etc.), used to be all right- even enjoyable, way back in the before times pre-2011 or so. But we all know the history. We all know how things have changed over the last decade in regards to gaming news media as well as news media in general. But those outlets, flagging though they may be, still somehow have quite a bit of clout; a lot of sway over the industry, at least outwardly.

Whether any of us choose to interact with them directly, complain about them elsewhere, or simply ignore their existence, they've had and continue to have an undeniable impact on the hobby, including the stuff I actually do enjoy and have attempted to move on to in order to avoid them.

That said? Obsessing over it certainly isn't going to make you happier. I do agree.

I agree to most of that. Though, I've seen certain YouTubers act not so different, nor no better, and sometimes worse than those they claim to hate or fight against. So I can tell difference anymore with most of these assholes. The only thing I disagree with is that I never liked Polygon nor Kotaku back before 2011, and disliked them even then. IGN always sucked, but their God Hand review was when I stopped giving them any seriousness or validation. GameSpot fucked up by firing their reviewers over Kane & Lynch's score (a game that still is medicore). I was getting tired of review sites around 2010 already. What did not help was certain review magazines and sites I did find enjoyable or credible were being shutdown or going out of business. Rest in peace EGM & 1Up. 2012-2013 was when I blew my top and shouted back:


Never looked back, because I know what interests me at that point, and they were not worth the never ending headaches.

 

[Houseman]

Having a bad run at a game once in awhile doesn't mean you have a "clear lack of passion...for gaming as a whole".

This is an oversimplified take to the point of being a strawman. It wasn't "a bad run", he clearly lacked the basic fundamentals, fundamentals he would surely have if he had a passion for games.

And we're officially going in circles. I think we've both said some variation of this about 10 times now. I'm exiting this conversation.

 

[Dreiko]

So it was a preview event and he was learning on the fly.

Also, while I haven't played *much* mega man, I certainly don't remember being able to air dash or double jump from the get go, and like half of them don't even let you crouch, so...

(And spoiler, he doesn't *complain* about Cuphead being hard or anything just mentions that it is, so him being bad at it doesn't really effect his preview article. Praised Cuphead extensively in fact. Based on our interactions here, I don't think you'd find any part of it objectionable)

Zero does start you out with a ground and air dash as well as walljumps and so on.


Also, I never said that he complained, so that doesn't have anything to do with the point. The point is why would we care what someone who plays like that has to say in the first place, cause he's an elite? Why?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Zero does start you out with a ground and air dash as well as walljumps and so on.


Also, I never said that he complained, so that doesn't have anything to do with the point. The point is why would we care what someone who plays like that has to say in the first place, cause he's an elite? Why?

I've got no idea why y'all care. You do though, quite a bit. It perplexes me, hence my participation in this thread.

 

[Avnger]

Zero does start you out with a ground and air dash as well as walljumps and so on.


Also, I never said that he complained, so that doesn't have anything to do with the point. The point is why would we care what someone who plays like that has to say in the first place, cause he's an elite? Why?

Imagine thinking games journalists are part of "the elite" LOL.

Many of them are freelancers making pennies on the dollar for their submissions. The relatively few who are somehow full-time employees are making nowhere near "elite" level money. Games journalism was, is, and will likely always largely be a hobbyist profession. It's done by people who enjoy the medium and culture despite the relatively low pay and few perks.

Just go back to calling them all SJWs. At least that made some level of sense even if it's complete bs.

 

[Chimpzy]

Imagine thinking games journalists are part of "the elite" LOL.

Many of them are freelancers making pennies on the dollar for their submissions. The relatively few who are somehow full-time employees are making nowhere near "elite" level money. Games journalism was, is, and will likely always largely be a hobbyist profession. It's done by people who enjoy the medium and culture despite the relatively low pay and few perks.

Just go back to calling them all SJWs. At least that made some level of sense even if it's complete bs.

This. And I know from firsthand experience. Worked as one for about 5 years. It goes for journalists in general actually, but especially for something niche like video games. Elites? Maybe the news anchors and chief editors, but mostly only at larger general news outlets, and even then they probably could've made more money if they'd become a lawyer, surgeon or banker or something. The rank and file who do all the actual legwork? Long hours, low pay for the vast vast majority.

Passion is a requirement for a journo, because you won't stick with it if you don't have any. During my tenure, I saw plenty of people bail for different jobs, because they quickly got disillusioned that it wasn't as fun and prestigious as they thought it would be.