Ahmaud Arbery: Is this a strike against Citizen's Arrest, Gun Control, The Legal System, or All?

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

snip

I've worked security for quite some time in my life as a side job. Let me tell you that no one whose job it is to protect these sites is ever conditioned to care about stolen materials outside of a loss report form and that no one ever chases 'suspects' unless they already have it in their head that they're a hero or that the 'suspect' should be punished. This was an innocent man gunned down by two meatheads who thought they were playing hero because they had it in their head that this dude was a thief. Even experienced security personnel would tell you that what these guys did was prejucided vigilantism.

 

[Agema]

Nah, we don't need vigilantes. I'm just not gonna shed a tear for the aspiring thief lol.

Don't worry, we get what you really mean <wink>. Clear out the trash - better for everyone.

 

[lil devils x]

To put it simply and distinctly.

Bullshit.

There was no proof he took anything from the construction site, no proof there was anything at the construction site to take, and assumes there is no other reason a black man would check out a construction site other than to steal something.

Bull.

Shit.

No kidding. It is funny how I have looked around numerous construction sites over my lifetime and never once had I thought to steal something or have I been accused of stealing something. But hey I am just a petite girl so they just realized I was curious about what they were building and wanted to see how it was going, like for some reason a black guy can't be thinking the same thing or something...

It is a very common reaction when something is being built for people to be interested in what it is. I couldn't tell you the number of times when I was building furniture and other things in the garage that I had neighbors walking by come in and check it out and ask me about what I was building. But somehow people automatically assume that this guy had to be stealing something instead of doing what the other neighbors do.

 

[Gordon_4]

So now I'm seeing a video where they show the jogger was wandering around in some type of construction space that he didn't have any job being in for about 5 minutes straight. Still doesn't give the right for people to shoot him but at least I understand the desire to film/chase him around cause they may be missing some of their materials that often lay around openly in construction spaces, that are worth money. Also apparently someone did call the cops but the cops failed to get to him before the neighbors did.


Ultimately that doesn't change how I see this but it does negate the narrative of this guy being menaced by random racist drivers/gunners and turns it into someone who prolly was up to no good meeting an untimely end.

Ahmaud Arbery video: GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case

GBI agents in the Ahmaud Arbery murder investigation are reviewing additional video from the Glynn County neighborhood where he was shot to death as they piece together the minutes before the fatal confrontation that has drawn national attention to Georgia and its justice system.

www.ajc.com

You know you can't just wander around a building site, right? They're dangerous and are subject to several levels of access control to keep random Johnnies out for their own safety.

 

[Agema]

It is a very common reaction when something is being built for people to be interested in what it is. I couldn't tell you the number of times when I was building furniture and other things in the garage that I had neighbors walking by come in and check it out and ask me about what I was building. But somehow people automatically assume that this guy had to be stealing something instead of doing what the other neighbors do.

Well, they might assume that. After all, he was black, and we all know what enough people assume about black people.

 

[SupahEwok]

You know you can't just wander around a building site, right? They're dangerous and are subject to several levels of access control to keep random Johnnies out for their own safety.

As far as I know, it was just some uncompleted house that the workers weren't at. It's not great to intrude on it, but on the other hand, why not? Just see what a house in construction looks like, fulfill some minor curiousity on your jog. I would've been tempted to take a look around, in his shoes.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

You know you can't just wander around a building site, right? They're dangerous and are subject to several levels of access control to keep random Johnnies out for their own safety.

There was literally zero access control on this unfinished house.
Misdemeanor trespassing at absolute worst, and the property owner didn't give a shit.

Certainly nothing to set up an armed roadblock to ambush somebody for.

 

[Gordon_4]

As far as I know, it was just some uncompleted house that the workers weren't at. It's not great to intrude on it, but on the other hand, why not? Just see what a house in construction looks like, fulfill some minor curiousity on your jog. I would've been tempted to take a look around, in his shoes.

There was literally zero access control on this unfinished house.
Misdemeanor trespassing at absolute worst, and the property owner didn't give a shit.

Certainly nothing to set up an armed roadblock to ambush somebody for.

Oh. Most of my experience is with commercial sites which are usually sealed off from unauthorised access. I guess I'm so used to that level of stuff I forget its not uniform across building sites. Either way, having a nose around a house being built is unwise but for the non-initiated a pretty common source of curiosity. Hardly worth tooling up and giving chase for Christ' sake.

 

[Agema]

Oh. Most of my experience is with commercial sites which are usually sealed off from unauthorised access. I guess I'm so used to that level of stuff I forget its not uniform across building sites. Either way, having a nose around a house being built is unwise but for the non-initiated a pretty common source of curiosity. Hardly worth tooling up and giving chase for Christ' sake.

I once had a peek at a building under construction in a nearby school when I was about 16-17 which was getting close to completion. Access was only blocked by a single piece of wood screwed into the outside wall across the doors to stop them opening. So I grabbed a screwdriver, removed the plank, had a look around. Obviously there was nothing in there to take even if I were light-fingered. No-one leaves valuable tools and materials in an easily accessible, unguarded site (except by accident). Anyway, I left and screwed the plank back into place upon departing. As you say, curiosity.

Although I'm now painfully aware that if a local police officer or have-a-go hero had gunned me down, their apologists would be calling me a burglar. I wonder what else from my backhistory they'd have twisted to present me as a terminally recidivist scumbag who needed to be put in the ground for the betterment of society? I was in a fight at school about 15 - no doubt that would be an indication of my aggressive and violent nature.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Eh, I bet his cousin's friend's neighbour once posed with a gun on social media or said something about marijuana or something once. He's no angel.

 

[Dreiko]

Don't worry, we get what you really mean <wink>. Clear out the trash - better for everyone.

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

 

[Agema]

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

No, there's a video of him entering the property under construction and just harmlessly looking round. There are also some black and white photos of individuals as yet unidentified that the McMichaels said they believed were Arbery. The owners of the property report no damage or theft.

But nice try.

I love how hard you're searching and desperate you are to prove he was up to no good and deserved to die. I dread to think why you're so desperate.

 

[SupahEwok]

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

I can't find anything of "new video", only a transcript of a police call from a caller who's identification is redacted, claiming that there was such footage. There was another 911 call with a redacted identification, but from it's contents it's obviously the McMicheals chasing Aubrey down in their truck. It's a leap to conclude that the first call was from them as well, but it is a small one. Video has been released from the McMichaels' security camera showing Aubrey exiting the unfinished house. If the call was from them, the footage of those previous nights should exist, yet it doesn't seem to be anywhere to be found.

They claimed in the police report that there'd been a string of burglaries in the area, which was a lie. So, the only proof publicly available at this moment that Aubrey was scoping out the house previously is a call that possibly came from known liars, without corroboration.

Furthermore, the only robbery that did happen in the last several weeks before the death was the stealing of a handgun from an unlocked truck at the McMichaels' address. The elder McMicheal had been involved in an investigation several years ago where Aubrey was apprehended for bringing a handgun to a highschool basketball game.

So, here's the likely events as I see them:

1) McMicheals' have a handgun stolen (they are on record as not having seen the thief)
2) Several weeks later, the McMicheals see Aubrey stop at that construction site, and the elder McMicheal remembers his face as one connected to a crime that a handgun was involved in
3) A call to 911 trying to get the police to apprehend Aubrey to harass him to try to find the stolen handgun, circumstances are exaggerated in a manner to hopefully get the police moving while leaving the McMichaels clear of charges of a bogus police call, in case it turns out to be nothing (a former police officer would know exactly how to game it)
4) When that doesn't work, grabbing a couple of other guns and chasing Aubrey down
5) Another dead black man shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time

Yes, my chain of events make a couple of assumptions. They can easily be filled in with the redacted names the police have withheld. It fits with the facts available and my personal experience of how former police officers behave when personally piqued, and would be worth investigation.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

If simple trespass in an unpopulated, unfinished home is punishable by death in your jurisdiction, I'd suggest that you move.

 

[Kwak]

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

Deathwish fan huh?

 

[lil devils x]

Nah, we don't need vigilantes. I'm just not gonna shed a tear for the aspiring thief lol.

So now I'm seeing a video where they show the jogger was wandering around in some type of construction space that he didn't have any job being in for about 5 minutes straight. Still doesn't give the right for people to shoot him but at least I understand the desire to film/chase him around cause they may be missing some of their materials that often lay around openly in construction spaces, that are worth money. Also apparently someone did call the cops but the cops failed to get to him before the neighbors did.


Ultimately that doesn't change how I see this but it does negate the narrative of this guy being menaced by random racist drivers/gunners and turns it into someone who prolly was up to no good meeting an untimely end.

Ahmaud Arbery video: GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case

GBI agents in the Ahmaud Arbery murder investigation are reviewing additional video from the Glynn County neighborhood where he was shot to death as they piece together the minutes before the fatal confrontation that has drawn national attention to Georgia and its justice system.

www.ajc.com

Considering there's now new video of the guy entering that same property at night over multiple nights for who knows what reason, I'm sure it's better for everyone at least in that area lol.

The people who actually own the construction site disagree.

Yup just looks like someone coming in to check out what they are building and how the construction is going and they have made it clear they never shared ANY information with the McMichaels or support their version of events.

"Mr. English wants to correct the mistaken impression that he had shared this video or any other information with the McMichaels prior to the McMichaels’ decision to chase Mr. Arbery. The homeowners had not even seen the February 23 video before Travis McMichael shot Mr. Arbery. When homeowner Larry English saw the photos of Mr. Arbery that were later broadcast, his first impression was that Mr. Arbery was not the man captured on video inside the house on February 23, and he said that to a neighbor.

In the months prior to February 23, a motion-activated camera had captured videos of someone inside the house (which was and remains a construction site) at night. Mr. English has never said that Mr. Arbery was the person or persons in those videos, and he does not see a resemblance now. After the first time that video captured someone in the house, Mr. English contacted local law enforcement on a non-emergency number and made them aware of the unauthorized entry onto his property. He never used the word "burglary." He never shared any of this information with the McMichaels, whom he did not even know. Nothing was ever stolen from the house -- which, again, was a construction site. "

Homeowner’s attorney, Arbery family’s attorney respond to new video

An attorney representing the homeowner of a construction site involved in the Ahmaud Arbery case issued a statement condemning the actions taken by Gregory and Travis McMichael.

www.wtoc.com

So according to the homeowners, the person who visited their construction site at night did not bear a resemblance to Arbery. From the video footage of Arbery coming in and checking out the site before he was murdered, it does not appear he was trying to steal anything, just doing what any other curious person would do when checking out a site to see what they were building and how it was coming along as many of us have done. He is looking at the actual construction of the building, and ignoring the supplies where a thief would look to find tools and things to steal. Your assumptions that " he had it coming" for checking out a construction site or that he was an "aspiring thief" that " I'm sure it is better for everyone at least in that area" the people who are building that home appear to be strongly disagreeing with you.

 

[Dreiko]

The people who actually own the construction site disagree.

Yup just looks like someone coming in to check out what they are building and how the construction is going and they have made it clear they never shared ANY information with the McMichaels or support their version of events.

"Mr. English wants to correct the mistaken impression that he had shared this video or any other information with the McMichaels prior to the McMichaels’ decision to chase Mr. Arbery. The homeowners had not even seen the February 23 video before Travis McMichael shot Mr. Arbery. When homeowner Larry English saw the photos of Mr. Arbery that were later broadcast, his first impression was that Mr. Arbery was not the man captured on video inside the house on February 23, and he said that to a neighbor.

In the months prior to February 23, a motion-activated camera had captured videos of someone inside the house (which was and remains a construction site) at night. Mr. English has never said that Mr. Arbery was the person or persons in those videos, and he does not see a resemblance now. After the first time that video captured someone in the house, Mr. English contacted local law enforcement on a non-emergency number and made them aware of the unauthorized entry onto his property. He never used the word "burglary." He never shared any of this information with the McMichaels, whom he did not even know. Nothing was ever stolen from the house -- which, again, was a construction site. "

Homeowner’s attorney, Arbery family’s attorney respond to new video

An attorney representing the homeowner of a construction site involved in the Ahmaud Arbery case issued a statement condemning the actions taken by Gregory and Travis McMichael.

www.wtoc.com

So according to the homeowners, the person who visited their construction site at night did not bear a resemblance to Arbery. From the video footage of Arbery coming in and checking out the site before he was murdered, it does not appear he was trying to steal anything, just doing what any other curious person would do when checking out a site to see what they were building and how it was coming along as many of us have done. He is looking at the actual construction of the building, and ignoring the supplies where a thief would look to find tools and things to steal. Your assumptions that " he had it coming" for checking out a construction site or that he was an "aspiring thief" that " I'm sure it is better for everyone at least in that area" the people who are building that home appear to be strongly disagreeing with you.

Those people, having already received death threats, have nothing to gain from not saying this.

It's a plausible thing to say because it's not like they know the guy so being unable to recognize him is understandable and not the same as definitively saying it isn't him. They don't stand to gain anything from siding with the killers who everyone already hates but the death threats and other general societal pressures (not to mention the possibility of being implicated in the crime in some way) are more than enough reason not to stand with them.


Also, being a home owner does not one a forensic analyst make. Why do we care what the homeowner thinks about who was in their house? The cops and video technicians just need to analyze the footage with forensic technology and tell us if he is or isn't the same guy. The opinion of the homeowner is irrelevant. Even if someone doesn't consider someone entering their property as a crime it doesn't mean other people also don't consider it one so you can't assume everyone is as comfortable with someone waltzing in their property as these particular (death threatened) homeowners are.


Oh and maybe this is a cultural thing but I never had even the concept of just waltzing into a construction site I have no business at and don't own or know the owner of in some way, same as how I don't enter random people's yards or driveways just cause I'm curious to see what's going on there. It may be a south thing, I dunno, but it sounds extremely odd and not to mention rude to do that so everyone who treats it as it's just something everyone does in the regular is just bizzare alien people to me lol. (and yeah of course it's not something you deserve to be killed for, hell, nothing is, I'm against the death penalty, still odd thing to do though)

 

[lil devils x]

Those people, having already received death threats, have nothing to gain from not saying this.

It's a plausible thing to say because it's not like they know the guy so being unable to recognize him is understandable and not the same as definitively saying it isn't him. They don't stand to gain anything from siding with the killers who everyone already hates but the death threats and other general societal pressures (not to mention the possibility of being implicated in the crime in some way) are more than enough reason not to stand with them.


Also, being a home owner does not one a forensic analyst make. Why do we care what the homeowner thinks about who was in their house? The cops and video technicians just need to analyze the footage with forensic technology and tell us if he is or isn't the same guy. The opinion of the homeowner is irrelevant. Even if someone doesn't consider someone entering their property as a crime it doesn't mean other people also don't consider it one so you can't assume everyone is as comfortable with someone waltzing in their property as these particular (death threatened) homeowners are.


Oh and maybe this is a cultural thing but I never had even the concept of just waltzing into a construction site I have no business at and don't own or know the owner of in some way, same as how I don't enter random people's yards or driveways just cause I'm curious to see what's going on there. It may be a south thing, I dunno, but it sounds extremely odd and not to mention rude to do that so everyone who treats it as it's just something everyone does in the regular is just bizzare alien people to me lol. (and yeah of course it's not something you deserve to be killed for, hell, nothing is, I'm against the death penalty, still odd thing to do though)

1) They were saying this BEFORE they received death threats and to speculate such is pretty insulting to both them and Arbery's family. You are accusing them of lying here and questioning their character for no other reason than to promote your false version of events.

2) They compared numerous photos and video of Arbery to their video footage of the other intruder, you are saying that the homeowners stating that the two people in the different videos do not resemble one another is irrelevant because it is contradictory to your belief that people are better off with this man dead.

3) You do realize that it cannot be a crime unless the people who own the property consider it to be a crime right? It is ONLY a crime if the Homeowners consider it a crime. My parents own a good deal of land on their farm. We had numerous "trespassers" , not just on the land to access the lake, but often in the barn near the lake as well because it was the only shelter nearby. We did not consider it trespassing or a crime for people to take shelter from the elements there as they often did if it started raining while they were fishing or needed some shade to relax in ona hot day. I could not even imagine some other neighbor, who did not even know us taking it upon themselves without even speaking to us to hunt them down and murder them because they saw them in our barn as being a rational thought. That is insane and inexcusable. Did The McMichaels bother to find out if he was a family friend? If he was asked to check on the place by the home owners? If the homeowners cared that he was there? No, they just hunted him down and shot him without any evidence or knowledge of whether a crime was committed at all. Being curious about what someone is building should not result in a death sentence and to suggest " that everyone is better off for it" is insane.

4) It is supposed to be "Southern Hospitality" to welcome neighbors into your homes, neighborhood. To have the neighbors playing in the yards, even if that means being in other people's yards, for the neighbor to bring you a cold glass of lemonade on a hot day when you are building something in your garage. This IS considered normal in much of the south. People are supposed to be offering a helping hand, not shoot them for checking out what you are building. Do you think they would have responded the same way if it had been a white girl? What do you think they would have done different if it had been a pretty white girl checking out the construction instead?

 

[Silvanus]

Those people, having already received death threats, have nothing to gain from not saying this.

So, you're willing to assume Mr. English's motives, assume the identity of the earlier trespasser without visual evidence and in contradiction to Mr. English, and you're willing to rest somebody's life on those two assumptions?

It must be so damn easy to settle a score with deadly violence in America. One needn't even fabricate a chain of events to justify it; people will do that for you.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Oh and maybe this is a cultural thing but I never had even the concept of just waltzing into a construction site I have no business at and don't own or know the owner of in some way, same as how I don't enter random people's yards or driveways just cause I'm curious to see what's going on there. It may be a south thing, I dunno, but it sounds extremely odd and not to mention rude to do that so everyone who treats it as it's just something everyone does in the regular is just bizzare alien people to me lol. (and yeah of course it's not something you deserve to be killed for, hell, nothing is, I'm against the death penalty, still odd thing to do though)

Yes. It is a cultural thing.

People complaining about the general public wandering through the construction of their home

For some reason, people do hang out in construction. To see what's being built or that they are just interested in the process. Not just kids either, as some of these people attest to.