Gaming Journalists Make No Damn Sense

[Dreiko]

So, stop me where I lose the plot here. Is your problem, in so many words, that you think other people are imposing their taste on you? By what means? To what end? What specifically have you lost by someone else drawing a line? And do you have a specific problem with people drawing lines and saying, "I don't want this?" Because in one sentence you condemn that as close-minded, and in the next give it a whatevs.

Basically the issue is the nuance between "I don't like this but I will defend it being a thing" vs " I don't like this and it shouldn't exist in a just world", which is what is really being said when one makes points pertaining to morality and not mere taste in condemning things as not being woke or praising things for being woke.


When things are called discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic as a critique and not a description, that's a categorical repudiation of their foundational belonging in a just, good society, because such a one would not have any of these elements.

In actuality, a good society would have ALL forms of art, even ones which some people perceive as having bad elements, because art is there for us to harmlessly explore difficult to approach issues and reach an understanding about them, without having to devote either an inordinate amount of resources to do so (I don't need to buy a plane to feel like flying one, I get to just watch this movie!) or transgress moral boundaries to explore the ramifications of deviant lifestyles (I don't need to be a mob boss, I can just play GTA).

By not understanding that arts' function is to provide a playground for people to try things out conceptually, to explore ideas they do not embrace, by trying to stifle or control it through indirect soft power in the form of moralistic disapproval and the drawing of lines, people are limiting the potential of art and stifling creativity and free expression.


You can not like things, you don't have to make a thing out of it. You don't have to judge or attack others who like them.

I can't answer for Dreiko but I will answer for myself.

" Is your problem, in so many words, that you think other people are imposing their taste on you?"

More people not allowing others their own tastes and pushing that people must like and support certain things by shaming tactics and if just basic insults fail escalation to either target jobs or other things or try to find a way to target people to shut them up or cause them trouble for talking.

People drawing the lines in some cases are going "This piece of media is harmful to society and shouldn't be allowed, it's immoral" or some variation on that.

I mean remember when that was happening with The Dark Knight

Honestly, I mind people forcing you to like something less than forcing you to dislike something, cause in that sense I just see someone else being super passionate about something, which is good, and just coming off too strong. That is more of an issue of degree, and yeah when they go on to call you a bad person without any irony at all that's kinda crazy, but at least it doesn't end up stifling art and causing things to not get made. It just causes lots of bad things to also get made alongside the cool interesting stuff I'm into. I don't mind that at all.


But yeah, the whole "harmful" bit is my huge issue here.

 

[Buyetyen]

Basically the issue is the nuance between "I don't like this but I will defend it being a thing" vs " I don't like this and it shouldn't exist in a just world", which is what is really being said when one makes points pertaining to morality and not mere taste in condemning things as not being woke or praising things for being woke.

And are these people numerous enough to be a problem or are you actively looking for them?

When things are called discriminatory, sexist, racist, homophobic as a critique and not a description, that's a categorical repudiation of their foundational belonging in a just, good society, because such a one would not have any of these elements.

In actuality, a good society would have ALL forms of art, even ones which some people perceive as having bad elements, because art is there for us to harmlessly explore difficult to approach issues and reach an understanding about them, without having to devote either an inordinate amount of resources to do so (I don't need to buy a plane to feel like flying one, I get to just watch this movie!) or transgress moral boundaries to explore the ramifications of deviant lifestyles (I don't need to be a mob boss, I can just play GTA).

By not understanding that arts' function is to provide a playground for people to try things out conceptually, to explore ideas they do not embrace, by trying to stifle or control it through indirect soft power in the form of moralistic disapproval and the drawing of lines, people are limiting the potential of art and stifling creativity and free expression.

Okay. Someone will inevitably bring up art versus propaganda. How do you address that.

You can not like things, you don't have to make a thing out of it. You don't have to judge or attack others who like them.

Isn't that kind of the anti-woke crowd's whole thing though? Making a big deal out of media they don't even want to consume and saying how it shouldn't be made?

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Isn't that kind of the anti-woke crowd's whole thing though? Making a big deal out of media they don't even want to consume and saying how it shouldn't be made?

Seems more like the woke crowd started this shit flinging contest.


I mean some of the first shots were American Sniper is racist and Fat Princess is sexist.

 

[Avnger]

Seems more like the woke crowd started this shit flinging contest.


I mean some of the first shots were American Sniper is racist and Fat Princess is sexist.

Media can be sexist, racist, etc and yet still be enjoyable or even good.

Examples:
Ian Fleming's James Bond books are well-known as being good literature (and depending on one's personal tastes, enjoyable) while also being both sexist and racist.

Birth of a Nation is an unredeemably racist piece of propaganda; it is also an instance of great filmmaking.

 

[Buyetyen]

Media can be sexist, racist, etc and yet still be enjoyable or even good.

Example:
Ian Fleming's James Bond books are well-known as being examples of good literature (and depending on one's personal tastes, enjoyable) while also being both sexist and racist.

HP Lovecraft is one of the ur examples. Innovative storyteller. Astronomical effect on science fiction and horror. Also totally racist.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Media can be sexist, racist, etc and yet still be enjoyable or even good.

Examples:
Ian Fleming's James Bond books are well-known as being good literature (and depending on one's personal tastes, enjoyable) while also being both sexist and racist.

Birth of a Nation is an unredeemably racist piece of propaganda; it is also an instance of great filmmaking.

yes, problem being in both cases it was framed as the creators being racist / sexist and them only being loved by said people and seeing people call for change and how the product shouldn't be allowed or should be made to change.

HP Lovecraft is one of the ur examples. Innovative storyteller. Astronomical effect on science fiction and horror. Also totally racist.

This always gets brought up but my understanding is later on he said how he regretted his previous positions on some things. Also no he apparently didn't name the cat people like to bring up, it was named by another family member.

 

[Buyetyen]

This always gets brought up but my understanding is later on he said how he regretted his previous positions on some things.

Nope. But hey, if Lovecraft is too much of a sacred cow, there's still Robert E. Howard. In fact most pulp authors back in the day were pretty racist.

 

[Houseman]

Only the "woke" crowd participates in censorship these days.

 

[Gyrobot]

Capcom Leaks: Resident Evil Battle Royale, Monster Hunter Rise for PC, Politically Correct Strategies, More

The contents of the Capcom ransomware hack has begun leaking online, featuring news on Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, and other games; along with politically correct business strategies.

nichegamer.com

So recently, Capcom got hit with a Ransomware leak and while more sensible sites only cover the leak of the upcoming titles worked on, Niche took a gander at the upcoming marketing strategies that obvious aggravated the weebs.

In case people wonder why I have such a damn low opinion of weebs, the comments section on Niche is my reaffirmation.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

Nope. But hey, if Lovecraft is too much of a sacred cow, there's still Robert E. Howard. In fact most pulp authors back in the day were pretty racist.

What's funny is the insistence on making sure everyone knows this with various authors.......... because apparently the woke crowd are worried somehow people will think unless they point out they don't support said views that they'll be accused of supporting said views. It seems like the woke crowd are very worried that the "Back of the class" didn't learn things as kids so have to make sure as adults they learn it treating everyone like kids in the process.

Capcom Leaks: Resident Evil Battle Royale, Monster Hunter Rise for PC, Politically Correct Strategies, More

The contents of the Capcom ransomware hack has begun leaking online, featuring news on Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, and other games; along with politically correct business strategies.

nichegamer.com

So recently, Capcom got hit with a Ransomware leak and while more sensible sites only cover the leak of the upcoming titles worked on, Niche took a gander at the upcoming marketing strategies that obvious aggravated the weebs.

In case people wonder why I have such a damn low opinion of weebs, the comments section on Niche is my reaffirmation.

Funny how people are defending what is misogyny on Capcom part. What they are hating / negative towards expressions of the female form that is misogyny

 

[Buyetyen]

In case people wonder why I have such a damn low opinion of weebs, the comments section on Niche is my reaffirmation.

I got about 4 comments deep before the anti-Semitism started.

 

[Avnger]

What's funny is the insistence on making sure everyone knows this with various authors.......... because apparently the woke crowd are worried somehow people will think unless they point out they don't support said views that they'll be accused of supporting said views. It seems like the woke crowd are very worried that the "Back of the class" didn't learn things as kids so have to make sure as adults they learn it treating everyone like kids in the process.

If you speak or act with a child's view on issues, don't be surprised that others treat you like a child when explaining things.

And speak of the devil...

Funny how people are defending what is misogyny on Capcom part. What they are hating / negative towards expressions of the female form that is misogyny

 

[Buyetyen]

What's funny is the insistence on making sure everyone knows this with various authors.......... because apparently the woke crowd are worried somehow people will think unless they point out they don't support said views that they'll be accused of supporting said views. It seems like the woke crowd are very worried that the "Back of the class" didn't learn things as kids so have to make sure as adults they learn it treating everyone like kids in the process.

I mean, you obviously didn't.

 

[Dreiko]

And are these people numerous enough to be a problem or are you actively looking for them?

Neither really. They're numerous enough to not need to look for them to find them but also not numerous enough to be a problem...yet. And they've been becoming steadily more numerous since the darkness era of 2014 and on.

Okay. Someone will inevitably bring up art versus propaganda. How do you address that.

Propaganda films are still art when removed from their context of being used to control a populace so as long as people are made aware that this thing is propaganda they should be allowed to see it. The thing with calling things propaganda is that anyone can do it. Homophobes can call a movie with positive depictions of gay chars "gay propaganda" capitalists can call a movie with a romanticized view of socialism (or with a society that could be perceived as such like in Star Trek) as communist propaganda, so on and so forth. Some examples are a lot more egregious than others but if you let yourself stand on the slippery slope of defining things as propaganda and following that definition with actions taken against them you run into the same issue you do when you have someone control speech and defining non-illegal things as "hate speech". That is; who gets to say what is propaganda? Who gets to draw the line? Unless some god descends among us and takes up the task, I trust nobody with such a duty, and I see as less harmful to allow propaganda to exist than to allow some asshole fallible human to decide what is and isn't propaganda. The end will be the same either way, the guy who would go on to make the propaganda will simply go on to be the censor and define as propaganda the things HIS propaganda would have been against all along but also this way we have a culture instilled of stifling art and creativity, of people afraid to create things they truly wish to create because they may be called propaganda, which is adding insult to injury.

It's better to take our chances on trusting the people to endure the propaganda uncorrupted while also safeguarding art. It's like with the free speech argument. If there's other movies beyond the propagandistic ones and if the populace are allowed to be free to experience all sorts of movies without worry or concern or fear, the ones that are correct will win out in the end out of the virtue of their merits.

And hey, if that doesn't pan out, people will be controlled either way, but at least this way we still have free art.

Isn't that kind of the anti-woke crowd's whole thing though? Making a big deal out of media they don't even want to consume and saying how it shouldn't be made?

No I think they just say it should be made as it used to be, without being woke. I'm pretty sure the people salty about that new bad terminator movie didn't hate terminator and wish it never got a sequel.

A lot of these issues is when you have established franchises with established rulesets ceasing to follow their own rules in order to be woke and retconning stuff to accomodate that. Now, this is more to do with hollywood being creatively bankrupt and needing established franchise names to warrant talking risks, but either way I think anything that causes horrid things like that new charlie's angel's thing to fail is a good thing, no matter why it is done lol.

 

[Buyetyen]

Neither really. They're numerous enough to not need to look for them to find them but also not numerous enough to be a problem...yet. And they've been becoming steadily more numerous since the darkness era of 2014 and on.

Well, if you have a more persuasive argument than just slippery slope demagoguing, then you should probably lead with that instead.

Propaganda films are still art when removed from their context of being used to control a populace so as long as people are made aware that this thing is propaganda they should be allowed to see it. The thing with calling things propaganda is that anyone can do it. Homophobes can call a movie with positive depictions of gay chars "gay propaganda" capitalists can call a movie with a romanticized view of socialism (or with a society that could be perceived as such like in Star Trek) as communist propaganda, so on and so forth. Some examples are a lot more egregious than others but if you let yourself stand on the slippery slope of defining things as propaganda and following that definition with actions taken against them you run into the same issue you do when you have someone control speech and defining non-illegal things as "hate speech". That is; who gets to say what is propaganda? Who gets to draw the line? Unless some god descends among us and takes up the task, I trust nobody with such a duty, and I see as less harmful to allow propaganda to exist than to allow some asshole fallible human to decide what is and isn't propaganda. The end will be the same either way, the guy who would go on to make the propaganda will simply go on to be the censor and define as propaganda the things HIS propaganda would have been against all along but also this way we have a culture instilled of stifling art and creativity, of people afraid to create things they truly wish to create because they may be called propaganda, which is adding insult to injury.

So would you agree with me then that the people who, for the sake of example, keep shitting on things like letting characters be non-binary in character creation as propaganda are clueless loudmouths who should shut the fuck up?

Also, I don't believe I've ever met someone who was afraid of making something for fear that it would be labeled as propaganda. I have talked to artists on the other hand who have received death and rape threats for being too woke.

No I think they just say it should be made as it used to be, without being woke. I'm pretty sure the people salty about that new bad terminator movie didn't hate terminator and wish it never got a sequel.

Still dictating what can and cannot be made.

A lot of these issues is when you have established franchises with established rulesets ceasing to follow their own rules in order to be woke and retconning stuff to accomodate that. Now, this is more to do with hollywood being creatively bankrupt and needing established franchise names to warrant talking risks, but either way I think anything that causes horrid things like that new charlie's angel's thing to fail is a good thing, no matter why it is done lol.

Which franchises? What rules?

 

[Dreiko]

So would you agree with me then that the people who, for the sake of example, keep shitting on things like letting characters be non-binary in character creation as propaganda are clueless loudmouths who should shut the fuck up?

In a sense, accepting that such a thing as "non-binary" even exists is adherence to a political ideology, because there's other ideologies that fundamentally oppose such a category as even being a thing, so while I do not have any issues with defining political adherence to such an ideology to that degree as propaganda, I do have an issue with shitting on it and not merely describing it as propagandistic and moving along, since, as I already stated, art can be anything, and I trust people to not be propagandized by a char select screen. So yeah going nuts over this is dumb, but they're not wrong in what they're saying, it's more of an issue of degree. Their reaction is a 10 when it should be like a 2.

Also, I don't believe I've ever met someone who was afraid of making something for fear that it would be labeled as propaganda. I have talked to artists on the other hand who have received death and rape threats for being too woke.

Of course you haven't, we still live in a free society with no censors. I wanna keep it that way.

Death threats and rape threats are already illegal. What is your aim here? To have these things be super-illegal? I mean, sure, I don't mind. I don't want artists threatened. I'd rather these people just created their own art instead and countered them that way.

Still dictating what can and cannot be made.



Which franchises? What rules?

No, the people are not dictating, they're following the dictation of the original creators and original version of the franchise they're fans of. If you try to make a sequel to homer's odyssey and retcon a bunch of stuff from the original to have it meet your tastes, well, at this point you shoulda just made your own odyssey-inspired thing instead. You can have an homage to something without needing it to be within the official canon. This is like those cringey self-insert OCs people write into their fanfics of established series, but this is not a fanfic a 12 year old girl wrote but something we're expected to take seriously.

 

[Buyetyen]

In a sense, accepting that such a thing as "non-binary" even exists is adherence to a political ideology, because there's other ideologies that fundamentally oppose such a category as even being a thing, so while I do not have any issues with defining political adherence to such an ideology to that degree as propaganda, I do have an issue with shitting on it and not merely describing it as propagandistic and moving along, since, as I already stated, art can be anything, and I trust people to not be propagandized by a char select screen. So yeah going nuts over this is dumb, but they're not wrong in what they're saying, it's more of an issue of degree. Their reaction is a 10 when it should be like a 2.

Nonbinary people are a scientific fact. I thought facts didn't care about feelings? I'm not obligated to pretend the anti-science crowd have a point when they don't.

Of course you haven't, we still live in a free society with no censors. I wanna keep it that way.

Can you understand why I am reflexively wary of "free speech advocates" trying to save me from a problem that you admit isn't even a problem?

Death threats and rape threats are already illegal. What is your aim here? To have these things be super-illegal? I mean, sure, I don't mind. I don't want artists threatened. I'd rather these people just created their own art instead and countered them that way.

The point is that most threats to artistic integrity are not the result of someone arguing in favor of trans representation. Far more often, my experience has been that the people opposed to social progress are far more likely to try and dictate what you can and cannot make.

No, the people are not dictating, they're following the dictation of the original creators and original version of the franchise they're fans of.

Arbitrary distinction. If you're telling me I can't do something, then you're dictating to me what is and is not allowed.

If you try to make a sequel to homer's odyssey and retcon a bunch of stuff from the original to have it meet your tastes, well, at this point you shoulda just made your own odyssey-inspired thing instead. You can have an homage to something without needing it to be within the official canon. This is like those cringey self-insert OCs people write into their fanfics of established series, but this is not a fanfic a 12 year old girl wrote but something we're expected to take seriously.

I'm going to repeat my previous questions because you in no way, shape or form answered them: What franchises and what rules?

 

[Houseman]

Nonbinary people are a scientific fact.

One of the tools in the propagandists belt is to assert that things are "scientific facts", and thus, not open for debate or critical thought.

I'm sure that the anti-vaxx people believe that they have a lot of "scientific facts" on their side too.

 

[Dreiko]

Nonbinary people are a scientific fact. I thought facts didn't care about feelings? I'm not obligated to pretend the anti-science crowd have a point when they don't.



Can you understand why I am reflexively wary of "free speech advocates" trying to save me from a problem that you admit isn't even a problem?



The point is that most threats to artistic integrity are not the result of someone arguing in favor of trans representation. Far more often, my experience has been that the people opposed to social progress are far more likely to try and dictate what you can and cannot make.



Arbitrary distinction. If you're telling me I can't do something, then you're dictating to me what is and is not allowed.



I'm going to repeat my previous questions because you in no way, shape or form answered them: What franchises and what rules?

Even if you wanna say that being nonbinary is a fact, there's still a million other micropercentage type beings out there that are not getting the highlightment treatment because they do not belong under the woke issues blanket. Like, I dunno, deaf people? Colorblind people? Even if you wanna say one side is wrong, I can still see why it's propagandistic to overly highlight these aberrations in this political context, specifically. Like I said, propaganda can still be art if it's outside of the context it was meant to be propagandistic and it's totally fine as long as people are made aware of that fact. These char select screens are only propaganda in this very narrow context we're in right now. I wouldn't for the life of me wanna censor them cause the future will shift that context and then they'll be just art.

I'm not trying to save you from anything, I'm trying to save my art from co-opting through snipping it at the bud where I see it propping its head.

It's already illegal to threaten people though, so we've already won that fight. I'm not interested in thought-crimes in my approach to crime prevention, so I am just tolerating that degree of threat to artistic freedom as the tradeoff to living in a free society. Doesn't mean I can't still prevent other avenues of threat from occurring.


And no I didn't say you can't do something, I said that that's why you are criticized when you put your self-insert OC in your fanfic of a sequel to a beloved franchise that shits all over the original. You can try to paint hyperbole as censoriousness but it still is just criticism.

And I mentioned terminator and charlie's angels, I dunno what more you want. How about that Harry Potter play which just tried to say that Hermione had been black all along just to be woke. There's tons of these things lol.

 

[Buyetyen]

Even if you wanna say that being nonbinary is a fact, there's still a million other micropercentage type beings out there that are not getting the highlightment treatment because they do not belong under the woke issues blanket. Like, I dunno, deaf people? Colorblind people? Even if you wanna say one side is wrong, I can still see why it's propagandistic to overly highlight these aberrations in this political context, specifically.

Could you dehumanize minorities any harder? And it's not a fucking competition, for god's sake.

It's already illegal to threaten people though, so we've already won that fight. I'm not interested in thought-crimes in my approach to crime prevention, so I am just tolerating that degree of threat to artistic freedom as the tradeoff to living in a free society. Doesn't mean I can't still prevent other avenues of threat from occurring.

Yes, because once something is illegal, it stop being a problem! That's why we haven't had any murders since Hammurabi invented it being illegal.

This is dramatically missing the point. There are people out there right now who believe that harassment is an acceptable response to a nothingburger inconvenience. But because it is illegal to stab people, you seem to think that it's not a problem. You are, chances are, one of those lucky people who has never had to deal with a stalker, because that shit being illegal does nothing to make it less terrifying and traumatic.

The fact that this behavior is considered normal among gamers only says negative things about gamer culture.

You can try to paint hyperbole as censoriousness but it still is just criticism.

Which is also the case when people say they would like more queer representation, for example.

And I mentioned terminator and charlie's angels, I dunno what more you want. How about that Harry Potter play which just tried to say that Hermione had been black all along just to be woke. There's tons of these things lol.

Those were your examples? If those are the most egregious examples you can come up with, then it is well and truly a big fat nothingburger.