Why Side Quest Writing is Important

CriticalGaming

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We've all seen them, those generic fetch quests, kills quests, things that for a lot of people and a lot of different reasons tend to drag a game out and ultimately/eventually get skipped by the player with few exceptions.

Lately I've play two games with incredible side quests however. Quests so good that I actually wanted to clear them all out, even if what the quest had me doing was a repeated task I've already seen or done for hours before.

Those two games are: Spider-Man Miles Morales and Yakuza Like a Dragon. Both of these games have incredible side content to do and it all boils down to one key difference that many other games do not have. Great Writing. In Spider-Man quests are given to Miles via a phone app, these little sides missions lead to some great character building moments and city bonding situations between the people of New York and the new Spider-Man. Meanwhile in Yakuza you encounter side quests as you walk around the city, each quest a mostly self contained mini-story that builds on the world around you but also further flushes out the main character to the player.

None of these sides quests have you doing anything super different or interesting. Though in Yakuza a number of them do lead to unique mini games. But they all do a wonderful job of highlighting the importance of writing within any side quest.

This is a problem that not many games tackle very well for whatever reason, either the side quests don't get much development time and are shoehorned into a game simply to flush out the world and make it feel like there is more for the player to do, or an entirely different set of writers do the side stuff while the A-team creates the main arch. But what a lot of developers seems to fail at understanding is that without interesting side content, often times a game feels hollow and short.

We all make fun of Call of Duty games for how short they are, a 4-6 hours campaign at best that usually ends up being nothing to write home about. But what if between main story missions you can other secret Ops you could run to not only flush out the overall story, but also provide yourself rewards in game like special grenades or skins for use in the multiplayer. Then CoD's might be a different experience.

Even The Witcher 3 is a rather short game if you don't bother with any of the side content the game offers. Chugging through the main storyline could see you finished with that massive game in a few hours. But nobody ever realizes that because the side content is so good that people often forget they aren't doing critical path quests.

Another example of side content done poorly is when side content is half assed and strictly filler. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is my GOTY and the most played game I've sunk any real time into this year. However I'll freely admit to the side quests being dogshit. They are poorly written and lazily implimented, however they are very rewarding so the player is almost guilted into doing them which piles onto the bad feeling of shitty fluff that they cause.

Good writing is absolutely critical in all aspects of a game, but I would argue that side content must be even better than the main story in order to make a game feel like it was a full meal rather than a fast food shitburger.

So I wanna know what games you've played that specifically had fantastic side content. What games have the worse? And how do you separate the difference in your minds?
 

Iron

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New Vegas. I booted my steam version for the first time last week and spent nearly 20 hours on a new character. I loved the side-quests, they were the heart of the game.

edit: The Ubisoft radio-tower games have the worst kind of side-quests imo
 
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One of my personal favorites for this would be Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Because goddamn it, I will make sure everyone gets their happy ending during that final loop!
 

CriticalGaming

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One of my personal favorites for this would be Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Because goddamn it, I will make sure everyone gets their happy ending during that final loop!
It does feel good making fictional people happy :)
 

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Good side content is probably one of the main pillars of what makes a good open-world game.

Too many games just phone it in with "Clear out the bandit camp" and then cover the map in 20 of that same objective, with barely any context in sight.

Speaking of which, I guess I should get back to Far Cry 5. sigh
 

CriticalGaming

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Good side content is probably one of the main pillars of what makes a good open-world game.

Too many games just phone it in with "Clear out the bandit camp" and then cover the map in 20 of that same objective, with barely any context in sight.

Speaking of which, I guess I should get back to Far Cry 5. sigh
This is one of my biggest arguments against Ghosts of Tsushima. The side content is virtually void of context.
 

meiam

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Witcher 3 also had great side-content. I think it had better side-content than the main quest, which isn't good for it
It's always brought up but I mostly remember how incredibly boring and repetitive those were. You'd have generic post on a board "monster killing villager" would show up to the village only to have them repeat the same things "monster are showing up help plz, oh also we hate witcher". You'd follow a red trail and just to end up figthing exactly the monster you were supposed to (except the one quest where they troll you saying you'll fight a dragon just to fight a generic enemy you already fought a bunch of time). And that was pretty much it, there were a few good one but success rate was like 10%.
 

happyninja42

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So I wanna know what games you've played that specifically had fantastic side content. What games have the worse? And how do you separate the difference in your minds?
One minor mission that comes to mind for me personally, is one from World of Warcraft. It's ultimately a fairly forgettable quest, in a zone that is often completely overlooked by the players, but it's one of my favorites of all time.

I cannot remember the name specifically, as it ends up being a HUGE quest chain, but how it starts is so subtle, and the stakes are so small, but so amazing.

And I'm going to be summarizing heavily, as a lot of the fine details are lost to me, as it's been like...shit, I dunno, 12 years since I played WoW? When did the Lich King expansion come out? I quit right before then. Anyway...

It's in either Western or Eastern Plaguelands, and you start the quest by noticing a ghost of a child crying in a small, unremarkable village, tucked away in an ignored corner of the map. If you go investigate, you find a broken doll, and you have to go find the various pieces of the doll, and put it back together. You are attacked by ghosts while you do this, but eventually put it together, and give it to the little ghost girl. She thanks you, and asks if you can help the sad man. You go investigate, and eventually come to learn the following:

The village was attacked in the initial undead plague, and a paladin of the light, lead a small set of villagers to defend against the undead. They won, but the paladin was struck by a cursed blade, by the leader of the undead. Not knowing it would doom him, he went to bed as normal. Tragically he was turned into a death knight, and rose up and slaughtered the very village he had sworn to protect. Now his spirit, and the souls of the other villagers, are trapped, fighting an endless battle as spirits, bound by his grief and guilt. And you learn all this, by talking to a Time Dragon, that is disguised as a Gnome, who is hanging out in the graveyard that you eventually go to as part of the quest chain. She asks you to help her fix it, because she feels it's a tragedy that needs to be resolved, and that those souls deserve rest. So she sends you out to find the various magical anchors for the ghosts, and bring them back to her. She then casts some time magic on the objects, which will allow you to summon all the ghosts of the dead, and the undead horde, back to the location, to relive the fight entirely.

Your job, is to help the ghosts of the humans, survive the fight, and to not let the paladin be struck down by the death knight, ultimately dooming him to kill his own people.

So the culmination of this REALLY long quest chain. Seriously like 20 odd quests in full, is all to try and put some souls to rest. Nothing more. So you go to the village, and summon the battle, and relive the events leading up to the final hours of the village in the realm of the living. The ghosts appear around you as npc's and you fight along side them, the paladin cries out encouragement, and defiance of the undead, and you charge in with him to try and literally change history (if only for the memory of a single ghost). If you succeed, the ghost is able to find closure for himself, and thus the ties to all the dead villagers is broken, allowing all of them to find their deserved rest.

The fight genuinely gets me emotional as I remember it, because it was written so damn well. Just, the entire theme of it was amazing! That's the kind of motivation that is crack cocaine for me! And it was a quest that, back then at least, not a lot of people did. Because it was in a zone that didn't have a lot of good quests/loot, and it was in a level range that was quickly passed through to higher level zones, so it was honestly a forgotten corner of the realm. And hidden away, in a forgotten corner of that zone map itself, was this amazing quest. I'd tell people about it and they'd be like "....wut?" And I'd go take them to start it, and they'd love it by the end.



Ghost of Tsushima

The side quests for the various supporting cast are wonderfully written. The monk Norio in particular is a very gut wrenching story of loss, grief, PTSD, survivor's guilt, and rage. But all of them are really well done.
 

CriticalGaming

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It's always brought up but I mostly remember how incredibly boring and repetitive those were. You'd have generic post on a board "monster killing villager" would show up to the village only to have them repeat the same things "monster are showing up help plz, oh also we hate witcher". You'd follow a red trail and just to end up figthing exactly the monster you were supposed to (except the one quest where they troll you saying you'll fight a dragon just to fight a generic enemy you already fought a bunch of time). And that was pretty much it, there were a few good one but success rate was like 10%.
I feel like you missed out on a lot of side quests in the Witcher 3. Very few side quests are directly related to Geralt hunting monsters.

Some notable quests are ones like, retrieving a frying pan that a dying soldier used to create ink to write letters to his family. Or the options you have to give a dying women one of your witcher potions unknowning of whether it will kill her, save her, or save her but leave her all fucked up...then you find out (maybe) twenty hours later her true fate.

I mean we all experience games differently, but I feel like your view on TW3 is very surface level.
 

meiam

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I feel like you missed out on a lot of side quests in the Witcher 3. Very few side quests are directly related to Geralt hunting monsters.

Some notable quests are ones like, retrieving a frying pan that a dying soldier used to create ink to write letters to his family. Or the options you have to give a dying women one of your witcher potions unknowning of whether it will kill her, save her, or save her but leave her all fucked up...then you find out (maybe) twenty hours later her true fate.

I mean we all experience games differently, but I feel like your view on TW3 is very surface level.
And I think you forgot just how many of them there were. How about all those quests where you find some random piece of paper that point you to some random structure in the middle of nowhere to get some generic loot? Also I wouldn't say 30 quests amount to "very few" (https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/The_Witcher_3_contracts).

Like I said, there were some good quests in the mix, but there were a looooooots of quests, so obviously there were going to be some good one in there. I think the ratio of good to bad is about the same as any WRPG or even WoW.
 

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It does feel good making fictional people happy :)


Tangentially: This is one of the reasons that I like "choice" games in principle, even if I end up secondguessing myself at every decision. The idea of harvesting a Little Sister in Bioshock is unconscionable to me, but knowing that it could have gone the other way makes the player decision more meaningful. It's not always done well, mind you, but if given the option I will always go out of my way to save everyone because it gives me the warm fuzzies.
 
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CriticalGaming

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And I think you forgot just how many of them there were. How about all those quests where you find some random piece of paper that point you to some random structure in the middle of nowhere to get some generic loot? Also I wouldn't say 30 quests amount to "very few" (https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/The_Witcher_3_contracts).

Like I said, there were some good quests in the mix, but there were a looooooots of quests, so obviously there were going to be some good one in there. I think the ratio of good to bad is about the same as any WRPG or even WoW.
I dunno I guess I just had more fun with the game overall and thought the majority of what I played fantastic. 270 total side quests btw including the contracts. So 30/270 is a little over 10% just to be clear.

These also don't include treasure hunt quests, which admittedly have little writing to them. And also that 270 doesn't include the dlc's.

Difference experiences is all i can really say.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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We've all seen them, those generic fetch quests, kills quests, things that for a lot of people and a lot of different reasons tend to drag a game out and ultimately/eventually get skipped by the player with few exceptions.

Lately I've play two games with incredible side quests however. Quests so good that I actually wanted to clear them all out, even if what the quest had me doing was a repeated task I've already seen or done for hours before.

Those two games are: Spider-Man Miles Morales and Yakuza Like a Dragon. Both of these games have incredible side content to do and it all boils down to one key difference that many other games do not have. Great Writing. In Spider-Man quests are given to Miles via a phone app, these little sides missions lead to some great character building moments and city bonding situations between the people of New York and the new Spider-Man. Meanwhile in Yakuza you encounter side quests as you walk around the city, each quest a mostly self contained mini-story that builds on the world around you but also further flushes out the main character to the player.

None of these sides quests have you doing anything super different or interesting. Though in Yakuza a number of them do lead to unique mini games. But they all do a wonderful job of highlighting the importance of writing within any side quest.

This is a problem that not many games tackle very well for whatever reason, either the side quests don't get much development time and are shoehorned into a game simply to flush out the world and make it feel like there is more for the player to do, or an entirely different set of writers do the side stuff while the A-team creates the main arch. But what a lot of developers seems to fail at understanding is that without interesting side content, often times a game feels hollow and short.

We all make fun of Call of Duty games for how short they are, a 4-6 hours campaign at best that usually ends up being nothing to write home about. But what if between main story missions you can other secret Ops you could run to not only flush out the overall story, but also provide yourself rewards in game like special grenades or skins for use in the multiplayer. Then CoD's might be a different experience.

Even The Witcher 3 is a rather short game if you don't bother with any of the side content the game offers. Chugging through the main storyline could see you finished with that massive game in a few hours. But nobody ever realizes that because the side content is so good that people often forget they aren't doing critical path quests.

Another example of side content done poorly is when side content is half assed and strictly filler. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is my GOTY and the most played game I've sunk any real time into this year. However I'll freely admit to the side quests being dogshit. They are poorly written and lazily implimented, however they are very rewarding so the player is almost guilted into doing them which piles onto the bad feeling of shitty fluff that they cause.

Good writing is absolutely critical in all aspects of a game, but I would argue that side content must be even better than the main story in order to make a game feel like it was a full meal rather than a fast food shitburger.

So I wanna know what games you've played that specifically had fantastic side content. What games have the worse? And how do you separate the difference in your minds?
RDR2 has a good amount of well-written, naturally occurring organically woven side quests, but what’s more surprising to me is how much story and world building there is in the game that apparently is never told. At least not in outright. I’m not sure how he does it (perhaps he’s a Rockstar operative) but Strange Man has been unearthing the backstories of dozens of people, places and things in the game that make Miyazaki’s quest design seem rather on the nose by contrast.

I’m partial to the one involving my favorite town in the game, Valentine -

 
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Those two games are: Spider-Man Miles Morales and Yakuza Like a Dragon. Both of these games have incredible side content to do and it all boils down to one key difference that many other games do not have. Great Writing. In Spider-Man quests are given to Miles via a phone app, these little sides missions lead to some great character building moments and city bonding situations between the people of New York and the new Spider-Man. Meanwhile in Yakuza you encounter side quests as you walk around the city, each quest a mostly self contained mini-story that builds on the world around you but also further flushes out the main character to the player.
If you haven't played it already, I highly recommend Evil Within 2. EW2 has some of the best side quests and missions in a survival horror game. You get additional story, lore, character (Sebastian's personal side quests that involve Anima benefit the most), and you are given great rewards for completing them. When I do a New Game or New Game+ run, I end up doing neatly all of them. They are just so good.
 

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And I think you forgot just how many of them there were. How about all those quests where you find some random piece of paper that point you to some random structure in the middle of nowhere to get some generic loot? Also I wouldn't say 30 quests amount to "very few" (https://witcher.fandom.com/wiki/The_Witcher_3_contracts).

Like I said, there were some good quests in the mix, but there were a looooooots of quests, so obviously there were going to be some good one in there. I think the ratio of good to bad is about the same as any WRPG or even WoW.
There were a LOT of hunting side quests. The alleged difference is that you could use Witchovision to track and prepared concoction to defeat the monster /curse. Sometimes you needed to talk to townsfolk to discover the source of the problem. But.. preparing concoctions is just another word for fetch quest. Adding a fetch quest onto your kill quest doesn’t much the quest better

The issue is that, other than Witchovision, Skyrim did exactly the same thing. A lot of fetch quests in Skyrim is to brew a potion to cure or summon something. I think that a lot of the Witcher writing had a detective novel pastiche placed over it, while only some of Skyrim had that. You could also save the monster more frequently. And the cities were incredibly interesting that didn’t rely on hunting as much.
 

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It's always brought up but I mostly remember how incredibly boring and repetitive those were. You'd have generic post on a board "monster killing villager" would show up to the village only to have them repeat the same things "monster are showing up help plz, oh also we hate witcher". You'd follow a red trail and just to end up figthing exactly the monster you were supposed to (except the one quest where they troll you saying you'll fight a dragon just to fight a generic enemy you already fought a bunch of time). And that was pretty much it, there were a few good one but success rate was like 10%.
On second thought, you're correct, there are at least 3 generic quests for every location, not including the quests for the special gear.
 

Trunkage

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I dunno I guess I just had more fun with the game overall and thought the majority of what I played fantastic. 270 total side quests btw including the contracts. So 30/270 is a little over 10% just to be clear.

These also don't include treasure hunt quests, which admittedly have little writing to them. And also that 270 doesn't include the dlc's.

Difference experiences is all i can really say.
*Looks at the side quest list*

Yo, a LOT of those side quest that aren’t contracts involve hunting something