DoJ drops case against Flynn.

gorfias

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I praise Trump because unemployment, before the pandemic, was at record lows while wages were rising. That he was resisting entering ever more wars and destroying nations like Libya just, cuz for the permanent war wings of both parties, this theoretically looks good. Not as forcefully as Gabby, Trump is resisting this sort of abuse and exploitation of the American people. Biden? He'll double down. If elected, expect a shooting war with Iran shortly.
 

Drathnoxis

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If he pleaded guilty, and now he's saying he wasn't guilty, shouldn't he go to jail anyway for perjury? He's either lying now and he was guilty before or he was lying before and was innocent.
 

Agema

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I praise Trump because unemployment, before the pandemic, was at record lows while wages were rising. That he was resisting entering ever more wars and destroying nations like Libya just, cuz for the permanent war wings of both parties, this theoretically looks good. Not as forcefully as Gabby, Trump is resisting this sort of abuse and exploitation of the American people. Biden? He'll double down. If elected, expect a shooting war with Iran shortly.
Have you checked what Trump has been saying and doing about Iran for the last few years? This would be the Trump who ordered the assassination of an Iranian general and incited a reprisal that injured a dozen US personnel? Who threatened war crimes against Iran of bombing Iranian cultural sites? Trump was threatening military action against Iran as recently as last month. The US president scraps diplomacy, ratchets up tensions from mild to outright threats of warfare?

Congress tried to pull the USA out of its involvement in Yemen - Trump vetoed it. He tried to pull out of Syria, and reversed his own decision. There are currently more US servicemen deployed in the Middle East than when he took office. He wants military parades, he scrapped the nuclear proliferation treaty and is trying to build nukes lke crazy, he started a space military, and wants to increase the defence budget 10-20% with you taxpayer funds despite (as you would claim) having no-one to fight.

Sure, he sits there saying he doesn't want wars, and too many American troops are overseas and all that jazz, but in reality he's not changed US policy in the slightest, except to try to increase military spending a lot.
 

Silvanus

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A guy runs out of a bank carrying sacks of cash. He is drenched in blood, breathing heavily. Alarm bells are ringing within the bank and can be heard outside. The man looks around wildly. There is a car parked 10 feet away, driver in place and the motor is running. The man, drenched in blood, holding large sacks of cash, so over-filled money is spilling out of them, runs to and jumps into the car. He makes no effort to reclaim the money that has spilled out of the sacks. The car he jumped into does a "jack rabbit" start, violating local traffic laws.

And you think the only thing to discuss here is a minor violation of traffic law?
This is just absurd hyperbole, though, isn't it?

You're alleging an investigation was quashed, though there's no evidence that said investigation was actually happening. The alarm bells, the blood, the sacks of cash-- in your scenario, these are all evidence. But in reality, no evidence has been provided. All we have is the assertion of Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani: Biden's political opponents, one of whom has been involved in numerous debunked slurs and conspiracy theories already in the past (like the racist "birther" nonsense).

So, a bank without any cash missing, and a mad old man outside shouting about how another mad old man has robbed it.
 

gorfias

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Have you checked what Trump has been saying and doing about Iran for the last few years? This would be the Trump who ordered the assassination of an Iranian general and incited a reprisal that injured a dozen US personnel? Who threatened war crimes against Iran of bombing Iranian cultural sites? Trump was threatening military action against Iran as recently as last month. The US president scraps diplomacy, ratchets up tensions from mild to outright threats of warfare?

Congress tried to pull the USA out of its involvement in Yemen - Trump vetoed it. He tried to pull out of Syria, and reversed his own decision. There are currently more US servicemen deployed in the Middle East than when he took office. He wants military parades, he scrapped the nuclear proliferation treaty and is trying to build nukes lke crazy, he started a space military, and wants to increase the defence budget 10-20% with you taxpayer funds despite (as you would claim) having no-one to fight.

Sure, he sits there saying he doesn't want wars, and too many American troops are overseas and all that jazz, but in reality he's not changed US policy in the slightest, except to try to increase military spending a lot.
He's making the right noises. Noises people like Hillary or Biden are not. It gets a conversation started. While Hillary giggles, "we came, we saw, he died." The resistance to forever wars has to start somewhere. Gabby is better than Trump. But Trump is better than the bi partisan forever war party. Were Hillary POTUS, I have to think we would not have just killed one of Iran's terrorist generals. We'd be at all out war. It was Trump that walked things back after they shot down our drone. And the war party was pissed at him for doing so. It aint easy. There is sooo much money in war.

This is just absurd hyperbole, though, isn't it?

You're alleging an investigation was quashed, though there's no evidence that said investigation was actually happening. The alarm bells, the blood, the sacks of cash-- in your scenario, these are all evidence. But in reality, no evidence has been provided. All we have is the assertion of Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani: Biden's political opponents, one of whom has been involved in numerous debunked slurs and conspiracy theories already in the past (like the racist "birther" nonsense).

So, a bank without any cash missing, and a mad old man outside shouting about how another mad old man has robbed it.
That Hunter is unemployable, yet is bringing down big bucks is evidence. That Joe got the prosecutor fired is evidence (though not conclusive). That Joe BRAGGED ON TAPE of getting the guy fired is evidence. Not conclussive. At what point to you state you have had enough? That your are dealing with a crook?
 

Buyetyen

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He's making the right noises.
What noises exactly? Is it when he calls Mexicans rapists? When he threatens to bomb cultural heritage sites? When he snarls at the press like a small, irritable dog?

Were Hillary POTUS, I have to think we would not have just killed one of Iran's terrorist generals. We'd be at all out war.
Correction: you choose to think that.

That Hunter is unemployable, yet is bringing down big bucks is evidence. That Joe got the prosecutor fired is evidence (though not conclusive). That Joe BRAGGED ON TAPE of getting the guy fired is evidence. Not conclussive. At what point to you state you have had enough? That your are dealing with a crook?
Again, you make assertions with no evidence and scream from the rooftop about criminal behavior while cheerleading for a mobbed up land shark who pals around with authoritarian dictators from Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Turkey. Nobody's going to believe justice is your motive when you support Trump.
 

gorfias

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What noises exactly? Is it when he calls Mexicans rapists? When he threatens to bomb cultural heritage sites? When he snarls at the press like a small, irritable dog?



Correction: you choose to think that.



Again, you make assertions with no evidence and scream from the rooftop about criminal behavior while cheerleading for a mobbed up land shark who pals around with authoritarian dictators from Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Turkey. Nobody's going to believe justice is your motive when you support Trump.
A member of the Pol Pot Left may ignore what I write. May plot to murder my family and enslave me and any who survive authoritarian genocidal purges. We have to hope the truth will out.
 

Buyetyen

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A member of the Pol Pot Left may ignore what I write. May plot to murder my family and enslave me and any who survive authoritarian genocidal purges. We have to hope the truth will out.
Good talk. You really addressed my concerns. I'll just be moving on now.
 

gorfias

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Good talk. You really addressed my concerns. I'll just be moving on now.
I was wrong and short with you. I apologize. But I am frustrated. See below.

What noises exactly? Is it when he calls Mexicans rapists? When he threatens to bomb cultural heritage sites? When he snarls at the press like a small, irritable dog?
No Mexican has ever committed rape? Ever? Did you know a huge % of women that use illegal services to get into the USA are raped by their vendors? Was Trump wrong to call MS 13, people that gang rape children, "animals"? Because he did. And the Legacy media called it unacceptable that he did so. I support calling child rapists animals.

Again, you make assertions with no evidence and scream from the rooftop about criminal behavior while cheerleading for a mobbed up land shark who pals around with authoritarian dictators from Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Turkey. Nobody's going to believe justice is your motive when you support Trump.
This is where I got short. Trump, like it or not, has done a fantastic job for which I think he will be rewarded with re-election.
Is he perfect? Far from it. But while people like Joe Biden appear to be engaged in selling out the US to places like China and the Ukraine, Trump appears to be part of a resistance.

This thread is about Mad Dog Flynn. Was he entrapped? Should the charges against him be dismissed.? I would write, given what we know? Of course. I've written many times of what we know, which constitute evidence. Rebuttable? Sure. Conclusive? Maybe not. But to declare what I've posted to be non existent evidence is just incorrect.
 

Seanchaidh

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But while people like Joe Biden appear to be engaged in selling out the US to places like China and the Ukraine, Trump appears to be part of a resistance.
There is no reason to think or pretend that Trump is actually doing anything substantially different on this score. And "selling out the US to China" is overheated. Foreign companies giving our politicians some mild conflicts of interest is hardly any different from domestic ones doing so. Garden variety soft corruption is something that both Biden and Trump have engaged in quite a lot. Much like the blue wave #resistance, Trump isn't resisting shit.

But Trump is better than the bi partisan forever war party.
He has increased the number of drone strikes over even Obama, just as Obama increased them over Bush, so his "noises" are just hot air. Pretending that he's an improvement is as silly as pretending that he's substantially worse.
 

Buyetyen

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I was wrong and short with you. I apologize. But I am frustrated. See below.
You're not frustrated, you're just taking out your problems on us. You do it again below.

No Mexican has ever committed rape? Ever? Did you know a huge % of women that use illegal services to get into the USA are raped by their vendors? Was Trump wrong to call MS 13, people that gang rape children, "animals"? Because he did. And the Legacy media called it unacceptable that he did so. I support calling child rapists animals.
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I expressed criticism of Trump, and you immediately bellow at me as if I have committed some grievous moral trespass. You then go on to strawman my argument and declare yourself the moral one in the equation by bringing up a tangentially related crime.

Trump, like it or not, has done a fantastic job for which I think he will be rewarded with re-election.
No he hasn't. He's just been effective at hurting people you hate. And if you think over 90,000 dead Americans is a fantastic job, then we'll never be friends because that legitimately horrifies me.

Is he perfect? Far from it. But while people like Joe Biden appear to be engaged in selling out the US to places like China and the Ukraine, Trump appears to be part of a resistance.
He only appears that way if that's what you want to see. Multiple people have asked you how a billionaire jet-setting real estate shark and TV personality who shits in a literal golden toilet can be anything but an elitist, and instead you just insist that Trump is fighting to save us the Iranian-Mexican Satanic Pedophile Church. If the only way you can claim the moral high ground is by comparing yourself to monsters, real or imagined, that's not a good thing.

This thread is about Mad Dog Flynn. Was he entrapped? Should the charges against him be dismissed.? I would write, given what we know? Of course. I've written many times of what we know, which constitute evidence. Rebuttable? Sure. Conclusive? Maybe not. But to declare what I've posted to be non existent evidence is just incorrect.
Your evidence has no merit because you author the connective tissue yourself and disregard evidence that is inconvenient for you. Hell, the fact that you prefer to him by his nickname instead of anything slightly less familiar indicates that you've decided the man is innocent, fuck the evidence to the contrary.
 

gorfias

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There is no reason to think or pretend that Trump is actually doing anything substantially different on this score. And "selling out the US to China" is overheated. Foreign companies giving our politicians some mild conflicts of interest is hardly any different from domestic ones doing so. Garden variety soft corruption is something that both Biden and Trump have engaged in quite a lot. Much like the blue wave #resistance, Trump isn't resisting shit.



He has increased the number of drone strikes over even Obama, just as Obama increased them over Bush, so his "noises" are just hot air. Pretending that he's an improvement is as silly as pretending that he's substantially worse.
Our Legacy media went whole hog for the poison gas narrative. An HRC White House would have us in Syria full on. Really is trying to get us out. Just, faster please. Do we have drone strike numbers? Again, he was going to do an air strike over the Iran downing of a US drone and pulled back, for which he did get criticized.

You're not frustrated, you're just taking out your problems on us. You do it again below.



See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I expressed criticism of Trump, and you immediately bellow at me as if I have committed some grievous moral trespass. You then go on to strawman my argument and declare yourself the moral one in the equation by bringing up a tangentially related crime.



No he hasn't. He's just been effective at hurting people you hate. And if you think over 90,000 dead Americans is a fantastic job, then we'll never be friends because that legitimately horrifies me.



He only appears that way if that's what you want to see. Multiple people have asked you how a billionaire jet-setting real estate shark and TV personality who shits in a literal golden toilet can be anything but an elitist, and instead you just insist that Trump is fighting to save us the Iranian-Mexican Satanic Pedophile Church. If the only way you can claim the moral high ground is by comparing yourself to monsters, real or imagined, that's not a good thing.



Your evidence has no merit because you author the connective tissue yourself and disregard evidence that is inconvenient for you. Hell, the fact that you prefer to him by his nickname instead of anything slightly less familiar indicates that you've decided the man is innocent, fuck the evidence to the contrary.
Bringing up the, "Mexican's are rapists" lie is a huge part of the problem. Even then, in the primaries, Trump used hyperbole to set himself apart from the pack of some 13 other better experienced contenders, he was NOT making racist comments. But a legacy media compliantly repeats this lie, and your inclusion of it here is part of the problem.

When I look at the 10s of millions murdered globally by collectivists in death camps, gulags and killing fields, I'm glad that Mad Dog Flynn and Trump are fighting to keep me from being some murdered corpse lying atop a stack of genocided corpses rotting in a US killing field somewhere. Not sorry if my desire to not be murdered while having my kids enslaved in US forced labor camps somewhere interferes with someone's plans for us.

*Takes deep breath* Just, when you want to repeat legacy media lies to try to create a false narrative, expect to be called out on it.

EDIT:

Backing off. I think I made my point. The FBI appears to have engaged in entrapment. I think Flynn, one way or another, will win this thing. They were out of line and anyone that cares about equality under the law and curtailing government abuses should be glad of it. Time will tell soon.
 
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Buyetyen

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Bringing up the, "Mexican's are rapists" lie is a huge part of the problem. Even then, in the primaries, Trump used hyperbole to set himself apart from the pack of some 13 other better experienced contenders, he was NOT making racist comments. But a legacy media compliantly repeats this lie, and your inclusion of it here is part of the problem.
White people don't get to decide what is racist against people of color. People of color do. If you want to tell me what you believe is racist against white people, you can. Not saying I'll agree, but if you take genuine umbrage toward being called a cracker, I couldn't question that if I wanted to.

When I look at the 10s of millions murdered globally by collectivists in death camps, gulags and killing fields, I'm glad that Mad Dog Flynn and Trump are fighting to keep me from being some murdered corpse lying atop a stack of genocided corpses rotting in a US killing field somewhere. Not sorry if my desire to not be murdered while having my kids enslaved in US forced labor camps somewhere interferes with someone's plans for us.
You're doing it again. You go from 0 to Apocalypse in a sentence and it makes it hard to talk to you.

*Takes deep breath* Just, when you want to repeat legacy media lies to try to create a false narrative, expect to be called out on it.
And when you make gratuitous, facile claims that the only reason people disagree with you is because they have malign intent, expect not to make a lot of friends.

I've said my piece, and I think I'll be avoiding these conversations in the future.
 
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Houseman

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White people don't get to decide what is racist against people of color. People of color do.
I'm a "person of color", and I say it's not racist. Therefore, it's not racist.

"Hi. Are you white, and want to express a view, but you're scared of doing so because people will dismiss your arguments based on the color of your skin? My name is Houseman, and I'll be your PoC argument surrogate! I'll make your argument for you and people won't be able to pull the race card on me! Contact me for pricing"'

 

dreng3

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I'm a "person of color", and I say it's not racist. Therefore, it's not racist.

"Hi. Are you white, and want to express a view, but you're scared of doing so because people will dismiss your arguments based on the color of your skin? My name is Houseman, and I'll be your PoC argument surrogate! I'll make your argument for you and people won't be able to pull the race card on me! Contact me for pricing"'

Well, with people all too happy to make excuses for morons I'd certainly take the opinion of someone with something on the line over the typical Trump supporter.
 

Silvanus

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That Hunter is unemployable, yet is bringing down big bucks is evidence.
What you consider "unemployable" is not what is actually considered unemployable in the executive world, though. Neither administrative discharge nor drug use is very notable at all in that world. Both are really, really common.

That Joe got the prosecutor fired is evidence (though not conclusive). That Joe BRAGGED ON TAPE of getting the guy fired is evidence. Not conclussive. At what point to you state you have had enough? That your are dealing with a crook?
When the claim in question is that he fired him for a specific reason-- to quash an investigation-- then the very bare minimum evidence you need is to actually demonstrate that there was an investigation in the first place.

Otherwise, what makes that motive more likely than any other? I say he got him fired for stealing twinkies.
 

gorfias

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What you consider "unemployable" is not what is actually considered unemployable in the executive world, though. Neither administrative discharge nor drug use is very notable at all in that world. Both are really, really common.



When the claim in question is that he fired him for a specific reason-- to quash an investigation-- then the very bare minimum evidence you need is to actually demonstrate that there was an investigation in the first place.

Otherwise, what makes that motive more likely than any other? I say he got him fired for stealing twinkies.
When I was in the service, they assured us that being discharged for reasons other than Honorable was a major black mark against employ ability. I believe that. When you add to it, that with Hunter's clout, his discharge was not just a run of the mill issue, he just is not employable. But there he was, bringing down big bucks.

As for Biden boasting of a quid pro quo to get a prosecutor fired just as that guy is positioned to investigate your apparently crooked son and friends? It is what it is.
 

Seanchaidh

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Do we have drone strike numbers?
Yes.


There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank.
A think tank devoted to analyzing United States foreign policy "from a realist perspective" (which is to say a polite warmonger's perspective) suggests that the large increase shouldn't count because it's mostly in Afghanistan, but it's not clear why that should matter. I mean, this doesn't look like a good reason to me:

This contrasts with media reports that Trump is ordering substantially more drone strikes than Obama. For example, the BBC claims that “there have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr. Obama’s eight years in office,” citing BIJ data.

Here’s why it’s a mistake: The Bureau of Investigative Journalism started tracking drone strikes in Afghanistan in 2015. As an official war zone, Afghanistan is typically classified separately from the drone campaign, because the U.S. military operates openly and has more strategic options. The vast majority of the 2,243 strikes attributed to Trump took place there.
 

Silvanus

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When I was in the service, they assured us that being discharged for reasons other than Honorable was a major black mark against employ ability. I believe that. When you add to it, that with Hunter's clout, his discharge was not just a run of the mill issue, he just is not employable. But there he was, bringing down big bucks.
So, you believe anybody discharged from the military will just never attain a high position-- even in an overseas company, with no connection to the US military-- without corrupt shenanigans going on?

I mean, I believe that nepotism had something to do with it, sure, but the idea that administrative discharge over some cocaine destroys someone's employability worldwide is just patently not worth crediting. Maybe it damages his chances within the US. But in a Ukrainian energy company? Why would they care?

As for Biden boasting of a quid pro quo to get a prosecutor fired just as that guy is positioned to investigate your apparently crooked son and friends? It is what it is.
But you haven't actually demonstrated that he was "positioned" to investigate him. There's no indication at all that such an investigation was happening, or was about to happen. We literally just have Trump and Giuliani's word.

Hey! Trump fired Comey, right? Just as Comey was positioned to investigate the Trump Foundation!
 

Buyetyen

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Hey! Trump fired Comey, right? Just as Comey was positioned to investigate the Trump Foundation!
The recently-fired IG was inspecting Pompeo's abuses of power and whether or not the administration's arms deals with Saudi Arabia were actually illegal. Funny how Trump keeps firing people for doing their jobs.