Election results discussion thread (and sadly the inevitable aftermath)

[Cheetodust]

"We'll see who's laughing once this makes it to the Supreme Court!"

"Ah so the Supreme Court is in on it too then!"

Fuck me this is dumb.

 

[Thaluikhain]

"We'll see who's laughing once this makes it to the Supreme Court!"

"Ah so the Supreme Court is in on it too then!"

Fuck me this is dumb.

You think this is bad, just wait and see what barrel they'll be scraping in a few weeks time.

No idea what it'll be by then, but it's not like the lies will stop any time soon.

 

[gorfias]

Yes. Trump was supposed to be the great disruptor, who to public acclaim drained the swamp, squashed the arrogant elites, and gave the USA back to the people.

He didn't. He made no effort to reduce lobbying, big money and corruption. He installed his own useless cronies to satisfy his own insecurity and delivered no significant reforms or changes. Underneath the grandiose claims, he didn't change policy and left the USA embroiled in myriad wars, subservient to big money, tax cuts for the rich, couldn't even get his signature wall built. He was the emperor's new clothes, all mouth and no accomplishment. And on top of that mass of failure and inactivity, he antagonised so many people that he couldn't even convert incumbency into re-election.

Yes, many of us suspected he'd be nothing but a heap of junk from the start. But we can accept his supporters had hopes - and he let them down in every way imaginable except for rhetoric. In the long run (once the heat of the contest and the fervour wears off), they'll realise that too.

I'll concede, the legacy corporate media were in an unprecedented war on this POTUS. Pat Buchanan may say Nixon was as vilified. Maybe. With such a campaign, could they have created all the other anomalies necessary for a legit Biden victory? ie https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ Perhaps. But for me the issue isn't proving fraud. It's proving this system was sound. It has not to my satisfaction.

ITMT:
There's plenty I think Trump's detractors do not get, know, understand, will admit....

 

[Cheetodust]

Trump disrupted election norms because he's an outsider who stand for the common man. Biden disrupted election norms because he's a filthy cheater. Seriously, over a hundred pages of arguing with this nonsense over the space of like six weeks and people are still bothering to argue with this absolute nonsense. Stop legitimising this crap by acting like it's an argument that needs to be debunked. Just let the cultists scream themselves hoarse. They might be looking to start a new civil war but telling them they're wrong on the internet isn't going to stop them.


At one stage a man runs up another human being and does a backflip before kicking him in the head. Enjoy. It is far more productive and enjoyable than arguing with cultists.

 

[Hades]

I'll concede, the legacy corporate media were in an unprecedented war on this POTUS.

Not really. They just reported his conduct.

That's the thing with these demagogues. They lie, they cheat, the demonize all opposition, they assault democracy and are generally involved in numerous corruption scandals.

And then his supports unironically ask ''Why is the media so critical of him!?''

Trump's conduct is what gave him his abysmal reputation, not the media. The solution to this abysmal reputation was to change his conduct rather than trying to change the media.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Not really. Trump's an openly corrupt businessman who's administration has always been an administration by the uber rich for the uber rich.

Pretty sure Cheetodust was parroting Trump cultists rather than giving their own opinion there.

They might be looking to start a new civil war but telling them they're wrong on the internet isn't going to stop them.

Certainly, the smart thing to do is write them off, but there's always the chance that someone undecided might be paying attention and will believe their lies if they aren't pointed out. On this forum it's rather a vague chance, and anyone who can't see what Trump is for themselves almost certainly has decided not to.

 

[Cheetodust]

Certainly, the smart thing to do is write them off, but there's always the chance that someone undecided might be paying attention and will believe their lies if they aren't pointed out. On this forum it's rather a vague chance, and anyone who can't see what Trump is for themselves almost certainly has decided not to.

Nobody's watching and I don't think anyone who turns up late to the party is sifting through 100+ pages of this. And besides the more you engage the more that this looks like a two sided debate rather than a group of frothy mouthed weirdos insisting that Dems and Reps, the courts and big business all came together to steal the presidential election but leave the other houses very close. You're arguing with people who believe that people turned up in a Biden/Harris van and started changing a bag full of ballots in broad daylight outside that van. That they came up with this insidious plan to steal the election but didn't come up with a way to not be obvious about it. Because everyone knows if you were just gonna dump 100k + votes into one candidate you would do it all at once rather than periodically. That makes much more sense than the fact that one party was staunchly against mail in votes and therefore, when mail in votes were later counted they largely were in favour of the party that didn't try to undermine mail in votes. There's nothing suspicious about the fact that the vast majority of money donated to this legal battle goes nowhere near the fucking court cases but straight into Donny Sr' bank account. Have a beer, have a wank, watch some cartoons and enjoy the fact that Rudy Giuliani might actually fucking fall apart by new year.

 

[Buyetyen]

But for me the issue isn't proving fraud. It's proving this system was sound. It has not to my satisfaction.

Which is a goalpost that moves every time you lose.

 

[Silvanus]

ITMT:

There's an enormous amount of simplification and misinformation in this video. To look at the claims one by one;

"The man who spearheaded a global initiative to decriminalise homosexuality..."

No, there was no new initiative. The article shown in the video is this one in The Hill, which refers to Richard Grenell stating that the administration is considering cutting intel ties with countries that criminalise homosexuality, and that Trump fully supports it. Firstly, that initiative never actually came about. Secondly, Trump himself was asked about it and appeared to be completely unaware of it.

"...And appointed America's first openly gay cabinet member..."

This refers to Grenell. Grenell was an Acting Director of National Intelligence. He held the post for a measly three months. It was 1 week after Grenell was appointed that Trump said he was going to appoint John Ratcliffe. Grenell was a placeholder.

"The man who negotiated four historic peace agreements...

Which are these? I presume it refers to the "normalisation" of relations between UAE, Bahrain and Sudan with Israel. These aren't really "peace agreements", were brokered with zero Palestinian involvement, and included allowing one side of the conflict to break international law.

"...And managed to avoid having to go to war against a NATO ally..."

Is he kidding? Trump "managed to avoid" a war? It should be blindingly obvious why this is drivel.

"The man who wants to bring troops home..."

Yes, everybody wants to "bring troops home". Trump chose to do so in a way that reneges on the US's obligations, and invited a massacre to take place. Chose to do so in a way that shreds US allies' trust in the US military, because they now cannot be trusted to keep their end of any agreements they make.

"The man who fixed the V.A...."

He didn't.

I'm begging you, Gorfias, stop getting your information from Youtube videos.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Oof, this leaked audio is horrendous. Joe Biden is so disrespectful to his supporters.

 

[Houseman]

 

[SilentPony]

SNIP

Remember when they were putting kids in cages, and I think it was Sarah Sanders who said something like "We don't like calling them cages. Its not inaccurate, we just don't like it."
and lets not forget the Largest Inauguration in History, PERIOD! and it was a sunny day.
Simply reporting what they were doing was enough to get them angry.

 

[gorfias]

Not really. They just reported his conduct.

That's the thing with these demagogues. They lie, they cheat, the demonize all opposition, they assault democracy and are generally involved in numerous corruption scandals.

And then his supports unironically ask ''Why is the media so critical of him!?''

Trump's conduct is what gave him his abysmal reputation, not the media. The solution to this abysmal reputation was to change his conduct rather than trying to change the media.

Wrong. Check out, for instance,
Silvanus
Comment on Trump fighting to decriminalize homosexuality around the world:

"The man who spearheaded a global initiative to decriminalise homosexuality..."

No, there was no new initiative. The article shown in the video is this one in The Hill, which refers to Richard Grenell stating that the administration is considering cutting intel ties with countries that criminalise homosexuality, and that Trump fully supports it. Firstly, that initiative never actually came about. Secondly, Trump himself was asked about it and appeared to be completely unaware of it.

Look at the link put in there. That's NBC freaking news, putting the worst possible spin on the first POTUS to support gay marriage BEFORE election.

Now look at a far less mainstream legacy corporate media report:

Trump brings up global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality at U.N.

In a surprise move, President Trump included in his speech before the United Nations on Tuesday his administration’s global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality in the more than 70 countries where it remains illegal. “My administration is working with other nations to stop criminalizing of...

www.washingtonblade.com

This is the kind of treatment Trump got for 4 years of the media.

ITMT: that same legacy corporate media fought to hide Biden's flaws. Some 17% of Biden voters claim they would not have supported him had they know of the Hunter Biden Lap top story.

If you don't pay attention to the legacy corporate media, you're uninformed. If you do, you're misinformed.

@Silvanus what I'm getting at is, given what we know, with the Washington Blade noting, " Trump’s speech, however, was likely the first time a U.S. president has explicitly brought up the decriminalization of homosexuality in remarks before the United Nations. " did not deserve to lose this election to Joe, DOMA, Biden for being anti-gay.

EDIT: Appears Trump gets credit for real improvements in the VA: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...eterans-real-and-permanent-choice/ar-BB18qSsw

 

[ObsidianJones]

Imaginary States ‘New Nevada,’ ‘New California’ File Brief Supporting Texas Lawsuit To Overturn Election

The seperatist movements argue they are ‘directly impacted by the arbitrary and capricious changes in election law’ in Nevada and California.

www.forbes.com

KEY FACTS
-The brief says the movements seek to branch off from their states to “stop the lawless actions” of the Democratic governors of Nevada and California, specifically the expansion of mail-in voting due to Covid-19.
-“New California State and New Nevada State are directly impacted by the arbitrary and capricious changes in election laws and procedures [that] occur with unfortunate regularity in the current States of California and Nevada,” the brief argues.
-The lawsuit the brief is supporting aims to overturn the results in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Georgia – all won by Biden.
-The suit claims that state officials “usurped” the power of state legislatures by expanding mail-in voting and that the expansion resulted in fraud and irregularities – a claim repeatedly rejected by courts.
-Debra Thomas, a member of the New Nevada board of directors, told Forbes it is a movement seeking approval from the state legislature and Congress to form a rural state that excludes Clark County, Nevada’s Democratic population center – an unlikely proposition given Democratic control of both the Nevada legislature and the U.S. House.
-New California’s website – which includes a map of California without Los Angeles, San Francisco and other cities – laments California’s taxes, regulations and gun control laws (common complaints of conservatives living in blue states) and echoes Trump’s baseless voter fraud claims.

So... Arbitrary. And Capricious. Like trying to creating two new states because you don't like the election.

Fine. Ok.

I really, truly wonder what will happen in 20-30 years where we can look back at this time and have psychologists dissect what the hell happened to Republicans. They weren't my party but I remember respecting republicans. I remember listening to their ideas and challenging my own.

It will be a long time until I can do that again, I believe.

 

[Agema]

I'll concede, the legacy corporate media were in an unprecedented war on this POTUS.

One of the amazing things about US politics compared to the UK is how restrained members of the administration tend to be even after office, holding their respectful silence. Trump is unprecendented in the disdain voiced by lots of his ex-staffers (e.g. Bolton, Kelly, Mattis). Even some of the outsiders Trump brought in like Steve Bannon were open about the disorganisation and incompetence on show. Journalists didn't sound the alarm over his dealings with Ukraine - it is obvious many in the administration and civil service felt it was improper. And journalists like Michael Wolff and Bob Woodward were invited right in to look round and survey the ongoing catastrophe. That's the thing: it's not just what you call the "legacy media", it's people who worked there.

There's the old saying that there is no smoke without fire. The Trump administration was a dumpster fire.

 

[gorfias]

One of the amazing things about US politics compared to the UK is how restrained members of the administration tend to be even after office, holding their respectful silence. Trump is unprecendented in the disdain voiced by lots of his ex-staffers (e.g. Bolton, Kelly, Mattis). Even some of the outsiders Trump brought in like Steve Bannon were open about the disorganisation and incompetence on show. Journalists didn't sound the alarm over his dealings with Ukraine - it is obvious many in the administration and civil service felt it was improper. And journalists like Michael Wolff and Bob Woodward were invited right in to look round and survey the ongoing catastrophe. That's the thing: it's not just what you call the "legacy media", it's people who worked there.

There's the old saying that there is no smoke without fire. The Trump administration was a dumpster fire.

Bolton is a great example of Trump making an effort at outreach to those that his backers do not like.
Trump would bring in the same kinds of swamp creatures he was supposed to be excising. And those people hate him just as much as the rest of the kind of crowd that is doing things the global corporations like. The media is just their mouth pieces. So, yeah, Trump was wrong to do it and they bit him back as hard as any global corporatist. But to those who object to the corporate globalist agenda to oppose Trump? They really are giving into a crowd I believe, long term, means us harm.

 

[ObsidianJones]

Wrong. Check out, for instance,
Silvanus
Comment on Trump fighting to decriminalize homosexuality around the world:


Look at the link put in there. That's NBC freaking news, putting the worst possible spin on the first POTUS to support gay marriage BEFORE election.

Now look at a far less mainstream legacy corporate media report:

Trump brings up global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality at U.N.

In a surprise move, President Trump included in his speech before the United Nations on Tuesday his administration’s global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality in the more than 70 countries where it remains illegal. “My administration is working with other nations to stop criminalizing of...

www.washingtonblade.com

This is the kind of treatment Trump got for 4 years of the media.

ITMT: that same legacy corporate media fought to hide Biden's flaws. Some 17% of Biden voters claim they would not have supported him had they know of the Hunter Biden Lap top story.

If you don't pay attention to the legacy corporate media, you're uninformed. If you do, you're misinformed.

@Silvanus what I'm getting at is, given what we know, with the Washington Blade noting, " Trump’s speech, however, was likely the first time a U.S. president has explicitly brought up the decriminalization of homosexuality in remarks before the United Nations. " did not deserve to lose this election to Joe, DOMA, Biden for being anti-gay.

EDIT: Appears Trump gets credit for real improvements in the VA: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...eterans-real-and-permanent-choice/ar-BB18qSsw

This will be terse. Apologies up front, but mistruths need to stop.

Donald Trump | GLAAD

Post-Presidency 05.17.2024 Recommitted to criminalizing abortion, telling Time that he would not intervene in decisions to monitor or prosecute pregnant people. He refused to say whether his second administration would enforce the Comstock Act, an 1873 “zombie law” that bans the mailing of...

www.glaad.org

Trump officials to roll back LGBTQ protections

The Trump administration will scrap ObamaCare’s nondiscrimination protections for sex and gender identity under a final rule released Friday.In a statement, the Department of Health and Human…

thehill.com

And using some of your sources

How the Trump administration is getting around Bostock to allow anti-trans discrimination

Legal docs: It's OK not to respect gender identity in sex-segregated spaces

www.washingtonblade.com

EXCLUSIVE: Trump comes out against Equality Act

Official sites opposition to 'poison pills' in bill

www.washingtonblade.com

Also... That thing about Trump's speech is wrong.

Obama touts gay rights in U.N. speech

Speech marks first time U.S. President addresses gay rights before General Assembly

www.washingtonblade.com

Obama Addresses Global Gay Rights in UN Speech

www.advocate.com

There are 175 arguments of direct attacks to LGBTQ rights, slights, and just Trump behavior in the GLAAD link alone by Trump and his Administration.

It is now no longer enough to say "it didn't happen that way". You need to now prove that this information that people are taking from Trump's own signed actions do not harm the LGBTQ. How rolling back protections and rights actually benefits the LGBTQ community.

It is now no longer enough to say "Fake News". You are now presented with the claims. Do the research yourself to see if what reported actually happened.

No more diversions about how corrupt Media is or how Trump doesn't get a fair shake. Explain to me, the Cis/Straight members of this forum, and the LGBTQ of this forum how rollbacks of protections actually Benefit the LGBTQ. Anything less is unacceptable.

 

[Agema]

Bolton is a great example of Trump making an effort at outreach to those that his backers do not like.

Bolton was a bad pick. He and Trump obviously weren't on the same page and didn't like each other. Bolton was just a bad hire and evidence of how poor the Trump WH was at hiring staff.

Trump would bring in the same kinds of swamp creatures he was supposed to be excising. And those people hate him just as much as the rest of the kind of crowd that is doing things the global corporations like.

These would be the global corporations whose taxes Trump slashed, whose regulations on pollution etc. Trump slashed, who Trump praised to high heaven and whose success he boasted about in terms of the Dow Jones rising, and complaining on behalf of if the EU tried to fine them for market abuses? Do we mean the oil and coal lobbyists he deposited in high office, including the EPA? The Big Pharma exec in charge of Health, and the inevitable corporate finance wonk who looked after the US Treasury?

Have you really looked at what corporate councils and funders were backing Trump? In a sense, you're right that Trump was so toxic that most of the usual big corporate suspects maintained a discreet distance. It was instead a freak show of the slightly odd, second order globally-involved billionaires, industrialists and financiers who most backed Trump... pushing exactly the same policies to pay less tax and exploit their workers more. Never mind, never forgetting, Trump is a global businessman himself.

 

[gorfias]

This will be terse. Apologies up front, but mistruths need to stop.

Donald Trump | GLAAD

Post-Presidency 05.17.2024 Recommitted to criminalizing abortion, telling Time that he would not intervene in decisions to monitor or prosecute pregnant people. He refused to say whether his second administration would enforce the Comstock Act, an 1873 “zombie law” that bans the mailing of...

www.glaad.org

Trump officials to roll back LGBTQ protections

The Trump administration will scrap ObamaCare’s nondiscrimination protections for sex and gender identity under a final rule released Friday.In a statement, the Department of Health and Human…

thehill.com

And using some of your sources

How the Trump administration is getting around Bostock to allow anti-trans discrimination

Legal docs: It's OK not to respect gender identity in sex-segregated spaces

www.washingtonblade.com

EXCLUSIVE: Trump comes out against Equality Act

Official sites opposition to 'poison pills' in bill

www.washingtonblade.com

Also... That thing about Trump's speech is wrong.

Obama touts gay rights in U.N. speech

Speech marks first time U.S. President addresses gay rights before General Assembly

www.washingtonblade.com

Obama Addresses Global Gay Rights in UN Speech

www.advocate.com

There are 175 arguments of direct attacks to LGBTQ rights, slights, and just Trump behavior in the GLAAD link alone by Trump and his Administration.

It is now no longer enough to say "it didn't happen that way". You need to now prove that this information that people are taking from Trump's own signed actions do not harm the LGBTQ. How rolling back protections and rights actually benefits the LGBTQ community.

It is now no longer enough to say "Fake News". You are now presented with the claims. Do the research yourself to see if what reported actually happened.

No more diversions about how corrupt Media is or how Trump doesn't get a fair shake. Explain to me, the Cis/Straight members of this forum, and the LGBTQ of this forum how rollbacks of protections actually Benefit the LGBTQ. Anything less is unacceptable.

My point is, yes. You can find articles like this as @Silvanus did earlier. They do not appear to jibe with other sources we find. They do the best they can to twist even thing that should be a positive into a negative.

You do note Obama's UN speeches, but again, from the source you quote, " Trump’s speech, however (as the article acknowledges Obama speeches), was likely the first time a U.S. president has explicitly brought up the decriminalization of homosexuality in remarks before the United Nations. "

Long story short, is in this instance, Trump, the 1st POTUS to endorse gay marriage before election, did not deserve to lose to Joe, DOMA, Biden for being anti-gay. And that's just an example.

 

[SilentPony]

No more diversions about how corrupt Media is or how Trump doesn't get a fair shake. Explain to me, the Cis/Straight members of this forum, and the LGBTQ of this forum how rollbacks of protections actually Benefit the LGBTQ. Anything less is unacceptable.

But...but Hilary's emails! And witch hunts! And Hunter Biden's laptop from hell and vans delivering pizza! Don't you get it? HILARY'S EMAILS! PIZZA VANS! 99,000 LESIBAN VOTES IN NEW CALIFORNIA!