Tell Me Lies, Tell Me Sweet Little Lies

[Phoenixmgs]

Jim Sterling's latest video is pretty damn straight-up for what every console launch year looks like. Microsoft already claimed that the new Xbox could run games at 4K at 120fps and Ubisoft already said the new AssCreed will be at 30fps. Every single gen developers choose graphical fidelity over framerate, why is it suddenly going to change now? The claim that the SSDs are going to make loading times basically nonexistent is also bullocks; just watch a Youtube video loading comparison of the different SSDs and HDDs. It takes a minute and a half to load Divinity Original Sin 2 on my SSD (it's not a M.2 NVMe SSD but still) and that's a non-AAA isometric game. I'm sure if you really optimize how the data streams in and only grab what's needed first, then keep streaming the rest in the background, you can make load times really really good but how many developers are actually going to do that? Even then, it most likely won't make load times nonexistent (say less than 10 seconds).

 

[CaitSeith]

Any questions?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

How about we wait until the actual systems and games are on the market? I know Jim is just being Jim and needs to publish another wacky video for clicks, but that’s also why I’m not about to trust his opinion over actual developers for example.

Several third party developers who have actually had hands on experience with it have already made their own personal comments on the PS5 load times, and said it’ll probably be what most defines how games are made in the upcoming generation, so it kinda sounds like it’s not complete BS.. I remember reading the goal was to make getting into the actual game like the classic pre-disc based consoles.

I’ll eat my words if it’s a bunch of hot air, but I doubt the industry would be unanimously talking something like this up for well, since that Spider-Man demo if it was.

 

[BrawlMan]

Saw the video earlier this afternoon during lunch break. I am downloading and saving that video for people that keep defending corporate bullsh@t.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

They tell us lies that we want to hear, to justify our decision to buy this garbage sight-unseen.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I think they have lofty goals for a console's potential every generation. And launch games never show off the true power of a system due to developers simply not having enough time to make those launch titles using the appropriate hardware.

Towards the end of the console generation though you end up seeing crazy some crazy shit. Like God of War 4, which I feel the the most technically impressive game on the generation in terms of visual style, and use of a console's power.


That being said, claiming the load times will be near instant is a pretty fucking dumb thing to say. And it's just one of the things Jim points out here. An SSD is not going to eliminate load times, though it will be a fuckload better than the consoles we have now, it's still going to have to load and it will still take some time to do so. Now how long those load times will be, and how well they can be hidden during gameplay will be interesting. Because no game is developed with an SSD in mind as of yet. However now that developers know for a FACT the end user will have an SSD on console (and PC's are strong enough for it to not matter), it will be interesting to see the tricks they come up with in order to make the loading times FEEL instant.

Illusion is everything, and the load times might not be instant, but if the game can make them feel instant then that's pretty much the same thing right?

 

[SilentPony]

I like how when the PS4/Xbone came out on a bed of lies I was called a pessimistic asshole who just doesn't like anything, but now that its a few years later its accepted truths that console companies at best don't know anything, if not outright lying and false advertising. Funny how the world just seems to be playing catch-up to us "pessimists"

 

[BrawlMan]

I like how when the PS4/Xbone came out on a bed of lies I was called a pessimistic asshole who just doesn't like anything, but now that its a few years later its accepted truths that console companies at best don't know anything, if not outright lying and false advertising. Funny how the world just seems to be playing catch-up to us "pessimists"

There are too many people that prefer half truths and lies just so they can feel better about themselves, or justify paying a console at $400-$600. The fools. Silly little fools.

 

[SilentPony]

There are too many people that prefer half truths and lies just so they can feel better about themselves, or justify paying a console at $400-$600. The fools. Silly little fools.

I remember when the PS4 was sold on full 100% backwards compatibility on digital, and that the motion controls were 100000% absolutely necessary and that the graphics were nearly 10,000,000,000,000% as incredible as the ps3...only turns out not only was every trailer and gameplay preview pre-rendered, it was rendered on a PC, and even the E3 demos were secretly on a PC, despite having a PS4 on display.

I mean who here honestly still values gaming press, the journalists, reviewers or previewers, let alone 72hr long ads like E3? And if so, can I sell you this bridge? I totally own it, trust me like you trust Sony and Microsoft.

 

[BrawlMan]

I mean who here honestly still values gaming press, the journalists, reviewers or previewers, let alone 72hr long ads like E3? And if so, can I sell you this bridge? I totally own it, trust me like you trust Sony and Microsoft.

Idiots who need to spread word to to other idiots.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

How about we wait until the actual systems and games are on the market? I know Jim is just being Jim and needs to publish another wacky video for clicks, but that’s also why I’m not about to trust his opinion over actual developers for example.

Several third party developers who have actually had hands on experience with it have already made their own personal comments on the PS5 load times, and said it’ll probably be what most defines how games are made in the upcoming generation, so it kinda sounds like it’s not complete BS.. I remember reading the goal was to make getting into the actual game like the classic pre-disc based consoles.

I’ll eat my words if it’s a bunch of hot air, but I doubt the industry would be unanimously talking something like this up for well, since that Spider-Man demo if it was.

I very much doubt under 10 second loading for games. If it actually happens, it would be nice and all, BUT it's literally not making the game PLAY any better. We haven't even got a sniff of anything close to a killer-app or must-play game yet or what potential new games will do that current gen games can't do besides look better. Just like every other gen, I doubt devs will be using the increased processing power for things like physics and AI just like before. Games that can run on toasters have more interesting gameplay than new shiny AAA game #347. I don't think I could roll my eyes any harder at the claim of 4K @ 120fps, maybe something like Rocket League. Devs are going to choose looking better over higher framerates every day of the week.

Towards the end of the console generation though you end up seeing crazy some crazy shit. Like God of War 4, which I feel the the most technically impressive game on the generation in terms of visual style, and use of a console's power.

That's not really true anymore. Consoles use x86 architecture and standard PC parts nowadays. There's nothing fancy or unique about the PS4/Xbone or PS5/XboxX CPUs and GPUs. God of War 4 isn't anything amazing, the levels/environments are so static, which allowed other things to be higher detail than normally possible.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I think they have lofty goals for a console's potential every generation. And launch games never show off the true power of a system due to developers simply not having enough time to make those launch titles using the appropriate hardware.

Towards the end of the console generation though you end up seeing crazy some crazy shit. Like God of War 4, which I feel the the most technically impressive game on the generation in terms of visual style, and use of a console's power.


That being said, claiming the load times will be near instant is a pretty fucking dumb thing to say. And it's just one of the things Jim points out here. An SSD is not going to eliminate load times, though it will be a fuckload better than the consoles we have now, it's still going to have to load and it will still take some time to do so. Now how long those load times will be, and how well they can be hidden during gameplay will be interesting. Because no game is developed with an SSD in mind as of yet. However now that developers know for a FACT the end user will have an SSD on console (and PC's are strong enough for it to not matter), it will be interesting to see the tricks they come up with in order to make the loading times FEEL instant.

Illusion is everything, and the load times might not be instant, but if the game can make them feel instant then that's pretty much the same thing right?

I still think RDR2 is the most technically advanced game on console. Might not have the highest resolution textures of all, but when you take into account everything it’s doing and still looking incredibly detailed in not just graphics but animation, physics, destruction models on both objects and enemies, etc. it’s a wonder the game runs on these old consoles at all. Then those draw distances in that enormous map that’s seamlessly loaded in memory...amazing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Absolutely, totally, and yet I'm still looking forward to what these new machines can do and what games we'll see on them. I can't really say the PS4 did me dirty no matter what BS Sony might've spewed forth pending its release. And I'm going to judge their next machine based on an actual showing of actual games getting actually played. In all honesty, next-gen console hype is a lot more subdued now and with the PS4/Xbone than it was back when the PS2 and PS3 got announced. Those two machines were hyped up to an insane degree. Things seem a lot more level headed now.

I guess I'd be a lot more antagonistic toward all of this if these lies resulted in consoles that gave me overall bad gaming experiences, but I can't say they ever really did. Quite the opposite actually. I guess it also helps that usually I can tell the real from the bullshit in these reveals, so I rarely ever feel betrayed by false promises.

 

[Gordon_4]

Jim Sterling's latest video is pretty damn straight-up for what every console launch year looks like. Microsoft already claimed that the new Xbox could run games at 4K at 120fps and Ubisoft already said the new AssCreed will be at 30fps. Every single gen developers choose graphical fidelity over framerate, why is it suddenly going to change now? The claim that the SSDs are going to make loading times basically nonexistent is also bullocks; just watch a Youtube video loading comparison of the different SSDs and HDDs. It takes a minute and a half to load Divinity Original Sin 2 on my SSD (it's not a M.2 NVMe SSD but still) and that's a non-AAA isometric game. I'm sure if you really optimize how the data streams in and only grab what's needed first, then keep streaming the rest in the background, you can make load times really really good but how many developers are actually going to do that? Even then, it most likely won't make load times nonexistent (say less than 10 seconds).

When you say it takes a minute and a half, is that an estimation or did you sit there with a stopwatch? Because I find my load times are seldom breaching 30 seconds. Hell on some older games like Mass Effect 3 the loading times are about 10 seconds or less. Even the Master Chief Collection has load times that I wouldn't classify as excessive. What make and model SSD are your games installed on?

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Absolutely, totally, and yet I'm still looking forward to what these new machines can do and what games we'll see on them. I can't really say the PS4 did me dirty no matter what BS Sony might've spewed forth pending its release. And I'm going to judge their next machine based on an actual showing of actual games getting actually played. In all honesty, next-gen console hype is a lot more subdued now and with the PS4/Xbone than it was back when the PS2 and PS3 got announced. Those two machines were hyped up to an insane degree. Things seem a lot more level headed now.

I guess I'd be a lot more antagonistic toward all of this if these lies resulted in consoles that gave me overall bad gaming experiences, but I can't say they ever really did. Quite the opposite actually. I guess it also helps that usually I can tell the real from the bullshit in these reveals, so I rarely ever feel betrayed by false promises.

I'll probably buy a PS5 just because it'll probably be like the same price as whatever video card is the equivalent plus it's a blu-ray player and far more portable than a desktop. It'll probably take like 2 years for there to be a game that either my PS4/desktop (only a Ryzen APU) won't be able to play that I actually want to play. I really can't believe XboxX is boasting about 4K @ 120fps.

When you say it takes a minute and a half, is that an estimation or did you sit there with a stopwatch? Because I find my load times are seldom breaching 30 seconds. Hell on some older games like Mass Effect 3 the loading times are about 10 seconds or less. Even the Master Chief Collection has load times that I wouldn't classify as excessive. What make and model SSD are your games installed on?

Yeah, I used my phone to time the loading for Divinity 2 (because I was thinking it had to be at least a minute). I'm guessing that it's because it loads the whole world and the game remembers the corpse (the where and how) of literally every enemy you kill, if crates got broken, etc. I got an ADATA SU750 and just got a new Ryzen 5 3400G and a mobo a few weeks back so I doubt it's running with an older version of SATA.

 

[Gordon_4]

Yeah, I used my phone to time the loading for Divinity 2 (because I was thinking it had to be at least a minute). I'm guessing that it's because it loads the whole world and the game remembers the corpse (the where and how) of literally every enemy you kill, if crates got broken, etc. I got an ADATA SU750 and just got a new Ryzen 5 3400G and a mobo a few weeks back so I doubt it's running with an older version of SATA.

Interesting; if I didn't hate isometric games so much I'd be tempted to get it and run it on my system and see how they compare. You've got a much newer CPU/Mobo combo than I do, but I paid a premium for my SSD for my games.

 

[Silvanus]

I know Jim is just being Jim and needs to publish another wacky video for clicks [...]

What benefit does he get from clicks? He's not supported by ad revenue.

 

[Chimpzy]

I must not hype. Hype is the mind-killer. Hype is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face the hype. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the hype has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Yes, I'm repeating myself, but i'll keep saying it wherever applicable. Because being old news is not the same as no longer relevant.

What benefit does he get from clicks? He's not supported by ad revenue.

I suppose if you really want get nitpicky, attracting a larger audience also ups the number of potential patrons. Personally, I chalk up his overly dramatic ways to him simply enjoying presenting things in overly dramatic ways.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I still think RDR2 is the most technically advanced game on console. Might not have the highest resolution textures of all, but when you take into account everything it’s doing and still looking incredibly detailed in not just graphics but animation, physics, destruction models on both objects and enemies, etc. it’s a wonder the game runs on these old consoles at all. Then those draw distances in that enormous map that’s seamlessly loaded in memory...amazing.

I didn't play RDR2 long enough to notice the technical detail on display there. I know that in GoW4 I can't remember many loading screens at all, but in the short time of RDR2 I remember a lot of loading. I believe the only loading times in GoW4 were when you zipped to a different realm, but even that was done with that magic ghost realm thing where you could walk around or whatever. I could be remembering that wrong.

Again i didn't play RDR2 long enough for it to hit with me.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

What benefit does he get from clicks? He's not supported by ad revenue.

Semantics. I was merely implying that if people didn’t watch so much of his videos, he wouldn’t get so much attention. To me his act too often detracts from a good point he might be trying to make, and other times he’s just being childish.

What baffles me is how YouTube makes so much ad revenue in the first place. I almost never expand or watch an entire skippable ad, and am inclined to avoid channels with unskippable ones. Guessing I’m in the vast minority category there.