“It’s Just A Videogame”

[hanselthecaretaker]

A well done compilation of some of gaming’s finer storytelling moments-

Was going to just put this in the videos and articles thread, but thought a dedicated thread could expand the discussion on some things like...

-What it means to be a videogame within the modern sphere of entertainment

-Why games are largely judged on their “cinematic” merits vs their potential for something even greater

-When will games hit their own “golden age” based on that potential


I think people’s love for storytelling in general is why games are currently so focused on cinematic qualities. The technology is there, and they’re certainly getting better at it, but the art of merging that with the interactive aspect which makes the medium so unique is what really intrigues me personally.

 

[CaitSeith]

Defined "finer". I sense a lot of insecurity in the montage, the kind of insecurity that keeps games going after the movies' shadow instead of being its own thing. None of the examples come from stylized games where drama is more frequent and better delivered, but they aren't in it because they aren't cinematic moments.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

The therapeutic and healing potential of certain types of videogames - like with military vets suffering PTSD practicing control over it through shooters, or other psychological issues through more focused applications - I think is an important area of topic to remember when stanning the medium like this. VR is proving even more effective in that regard also. Tho I do have my suspicions why it's barely brought up by the usual defense league soldiers for videogames.

Study: Video games can help Veterans recover from mental health challenges

A recent study with a small sample of Veterans trying to recover from mental health issues found that video games can help in overcoming such problems as PTSD and substance abuse disorders.

www.research.va.gov

 

[Casual Shinji]

Defined "finer". I sense a lot of insecurity in the montage, the kind of insecurity that keeps games going after the movies' shadow instead of being its own thing. None of the examples come from stylized games where drama is more frequent and better delivered, but they aren't in it because they aren't cinematic moments.

All videogames are videogames and are no less videogames than videogames considered more 'videogame' by the gameplay centric crowd. But then the phrase 'it's just a videogame' as if 'oh no, it's so much more' rings quite insecure, so in that sense the entire videogame community has security issues with its own artistic validity.

Not to be a downer in a game celebratory thread, I've just kinda gotten tired of going to bat for this medium. I still love videogames, but the whole artistic merrit discussion feels like padding ourselves on the back.

 

[laggyteabag]

-Why games are largely judged on their “cinematic” merits vs their potential for something even greater

And yet you just posted a 4m 47s comprised entirely on various game's cinematic moments, entirely excluding gameplay.

That isn't really a criticism or a dig, but it is an observation. The way a game looks, or the story that the game has to tell, are really the only things that can be compared to other media, and whether we like it or not, for a lot of people to appreciate a game, this is the aspect that the games need to stand on, before they can be taken seriously. People who don't like games, or have no real experience with games, have no appreciation for how a game plays, because there isn't really an appropriate analogue. Also, the way a game plays is incredibly difficult to portray or describe or appreciate, without sitting someone down and putting a controller in their hands.

Equally though, a lot of people only really see games as being mindless, or cheesy. I told my mum that I stayed up until 6am one night, playing The Last of Us 2, and she could not understand why I would ever want to do that for a game. She didn't really understand that a game's story could possibly be any good, or worth experiencing.

Personally, I feel like games have the potential to become the objectively best form of media.

No other medium has, or can have, the same combination of merits that videogames can. Everything books, or films, or TV shows can have, videogames can do better, and beyond.

But, they have a long way to go before a lot of people really accept even the minimum of that potential.

Okay, I can take my pretentiousness hat off, now.

 

[CaitSeith]

the whole artistic merrit discussion feels like padding ourselves on the back.

If we don't do it ourselves, who will?

 

[SilentPony]

Well I mean technically they are just video games. Red Dead isn't a hamburger, Mass Effect isn't also a play, Last of Us isn't a door. They are just video games. That video game can mean something to someone and make them feel something, but they're still just a video game.

 

[Elijin]

It's just a book. It's just a sport. It's just a painting. It's just a film. It's just a photo.

It's just like art and entertainment are entirely subjective.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Unfortunately, we are already passed the Golden Age of video games. It's true that it's not 'just a video game', because it's also a platform to sell you dlc, subscriptions, microtransactions, or advertisements. It's a casino where you can't win anything of actual value. It's a social platform where a company can attempt to tie you socially to their own product.

'It's just a video game,' I wish.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think it's a disservice to the medium to reach for a montage of (melo)dramatic cutscenes scored to rousing Hans Zimmer-y music to prove its merit. This proves what? Games can be manipulated into giving the illusion of self-importance just like any other medium with some rote editing choices?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

And yet you just posted a 4m 47s comprised entirely on various game's cinematic moments, entirely excluding gameplay.

Well yeah that was basically the point, on why it’s such a focal point.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Defined "finer". I sense a lot of insecurity in the montage, the kind of insecurity that keeps games going after the movies' shadow instead of being its own thing. None of the examples come from stylized games where drama is more frequent and better delivered, but they aren't in it because they aren't cinematic moments.

By gaming standards these moments are pretty standout, and I already posed the questions of cinematic aims vs something more than that.

 

[BrawlMan]

Look, you're always gonna have some narrow minded jerk offs that think less of games. The good news is that it's mostly the old farts, and you have us and the younger generation. I am not going to great lengths for their approval. The funny thing is, even my parents understand how far video games have come. And they ain't that big in to them aside from the old-school single screen games. Especially my dad. He be a bit closed minded in some regards to that and animation. Ironic, because he loves Ferngully. But even sees merit when I showed him this:

While I am at it.


​

 

[CriticalGaming]

The way a game looks, or the story that the game has to tell, are really the only things that can be compared to other media, and whether we like it or not, for a lot of people to appreciate a game, this is the aspect that the games need to stand on, before they can be taken seriously. People who don't like games, or have no real experience with games, have no appreciation for how a game plays, because there isn't really an appropriate analogue

This always baffles me when i hear people say it. "I don't like games." Like what kind of boring fuck doesn't like fun? How much of an asshole do you have to be to not like the concept of fun?

Whether you like video games or not, the idea that someone just doesn't like to play at all (board games, sports, etc) is insane to me.

Often times the people who say they don't like games, will also be the same people who will sit and binge watch an entire TV series on Netflix doing litterally nothing for hours on end. And they always talk about video games like they stand on some pedestal and those people deserve to be ***** slapped to hell and back.

People who don't like video games, have never sat down and tried to play a video game. Show me one person who is never played a game that sits down with Mario Party or Mario Kart or something along those lines and isn't haven't fun within ten minutes and I'll show you a boring person.

 

[Gordon_4]

This always baffles me when i hear people say it. "I don't like games." Like what kind of boring fuck doesn't like fun? How much of an asshole do you have to be to not like the concept of fun?

Whether you like video games or not, the idea that someone just doesn't like to play at all (board games, sports, etc) is insane to me.

Often times the people who say they don't like games, will also be the same people who will sit and binge watch an entire TV series on Netflix doing litterally nothing for hours on end. And they always talk about video games like they stand on some pedestal and those people deserve to be ***** slapped to hell and back.

People who don't like video games, have never sat down and tried to play a video game. Show me one person who is never played a game that sits down with Mario Party or Mario Kart or something along those lines and isn't haven't fun within ten minutes and I'll show you a boring person.

Except that position is equally sanctimonious from the other direction. I don’t think either of my bosses at work give a tuppence ha’penny about video games but they’re not boring people. Video games are just not their preferred vector for fun.

Just like you’re not boring if you don’t like going fishing, swing dancing or any other innumerable hobbies one can indulge in.

 

[09philj]

Games are games and not anything else, and often they're more like other things than like each other. People reach for cinema as a comparison because it's the thing that's superficially closest "respectable" medium to what most games do, but really a games as a whole are influenced by a very wide range of outside storytelling styles. The modern reality of games reflects the modern reality of most mass market media. A few large, powerful corporations control most of the mainstream output. Smaller companies with good grasps on niche markets circle the periphery, occasionally pushing more adventurous work to the forefront of the public consciousness. Independent artists use the ease of digital distribution to try to get their work to an audience that will appreciate it, although the sheer volume of work drowns out all but a few talented and lucky people. Some people are trying radical, experimental things, others are trying to recapture the styles of previous eras, and the big companies are looking for whatever will appeal to the widest audience and therefore get the most money. Every subculture is catered for but there's a kind of malaise setting in as nothing has really shaken up the medium in a properly big way for a while. This describes not only games, but films and music as well, and comics and books. There's no real "golden age" of any particular media, really, there are only changes in what kinds of works benefit from that particular creative environment.

 

[Drathnoxis]

This always baffles me when i hear people say it. "I don't like games." Like what kind of boring fuck doesn't like fun? How much of an asshole do you have to be to not like the concept of fun?

Whether you like video games or not, the idea that someone just doesn't like to play at all (board games, sports, etc) is insane to me.

Often times the people who say they don't like games, will also be the same people who will sit and binge watch an entire TV series on Netflix doing litterally nothing for hours on end. And they always talk about video games like they stand on some pedestal and those people deserve to be ***** slapped to hell and back.

People who don't like video games, have never sat down and tried to play a video game. Show me one person who is never played a game that sits down with Mario Party or Mario Kart or something along those lines and isn't haven't fun within ten minutes and I'll show you a boring person.

I hate fun, but I like playing video games because they give me something to complain about.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Except that position is equally sanctimonious from the other direction. I don’t think either of my bosses at work give a tuppence ha’penny about video games but they’re not boring people. Video games are just not their preferred vector for fun.

Just like you’re not boring if you don’t like going fishing, swing dancing or any other innumerable hobbies one can indulge in.

Which is why i included board games and sports in my blanket. Fishing is a sport technically, dancing is tied to music which is a fair enough hobby but you arent coming home after a hard day to dance.

Most 40+ year old folks are the people saying they dont game or dismissing gaming only to plop their asses in front of a tv for hours every night before bed.

There is nothing wrong with whatever the fuck you wanna do, but dont dismiss some other activity because you dont like it. Usully that dismissal always comes with some level of implied scorn like you are a shithead for liking something that they think is a waste for whatever reason.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Unless they play the wrong type of video game, or worse, play the right type of video game wrong.

 

[EvilRoy]

I think games are often judged primarily by their cinematics and graphics and voice acting and such is because those are the things that one can connect to without having to actually experience the game itself. You can see those on a TV screen easily and make a call without having to invest much more time into it. Paintings and movies benefit from this point of view because they really are primarily a visual medium. Books don't even have to engage with the argument based on age alone, and they often get the gilded treatment when movies try and fail to match what a writer uses ink and a readers imagination to create.

I really think that videogames suffer from the same thing as live action theater. And I'm dead serious about that. I'm going to talk about Cats now, the play not the movie, but you have been warned all the same. Cats is really shittily written. Its barely written at all, frankly, more or less having been based on a book of poems about cats written ages prior to the play and having almost no connecting thread - they were supposed to be a fun childrens book. So the writing is not good. It also looks kind of crappy. There's no budget for thousand dollar makeup and costumes, and often sets were little more than sheet paintings and random garbage tossed around a stage. If you watched a filming of the play (not. the movie.) you would probably hate it. That's because what made the play great was how the actors would play to the audience and bring people into it - overacting and being weird and grandiose and winking to the audience or yawning and pretending to ignore little kids trying to get their attention. The play isn't about a story or a drama, its a great big circus-like spectacle with singing and dancing. And that's why people liked it so much and why it ran for so long.

Similar to live theater, videogames have to be experienced to be understood and enjoyed. Watching someone play Bioshock is not the same as playing through the Would You Kindly moment. But because of that you have this automatic barrier to entry that requires people who may not be interested in technology to actually use it. So instead people try to push the cinematics so much - because its a part of videogames that's like this other thing so maybe people can understand it better?

I can accept that there's always going to be this barrier, I just wish people who push games as an art medium would quit acting so desperate. Piranha 3DD is a thing that exists. Hell the Cats movie is a thing that exists. Movies don't have clean asses either, its fine, quit trying so hard.