Germany wants to add loot box warning to video game ratings

[Dwarvenhobble]

Germany wants to add loot box warning to video game ratings

UPDATE: The Bundestag has amended its announcement about the passing of reform of the Youth Protection Act to remove me…

www.eurogamer.net

..... age ratings will be expanded to include descriptors for various problematic mechanics, including "cost traps". The idea here is to indicate risk if it was not taken into account in the age classification.

The reformed law includes mention of "risks from gambling-like mechanisms" that would apply to loot boxes.

Der Spiegel singles out FIFA as one series of games that could be affected. Through its Ultimate Team mode, packs of cards are sold in loot boxes that can be earned through gameplay or purchased with real-world money.
These virtual card packs have a chance to include powerful players, adding an element of pay-to-win to Ultimate Team. While FIFA 21, the latest version of the game, does highlight pack odds, players are never sure which cards they will get.

The net closes ever further on EA and other companies cash cows it seems

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Companies have already made an effort to circumvent this by not having the loot boxes/microtransactions in the game at launch, and then adding them afterwards. The people in power to make this sort of regulation happen need to find a way to deal with that before it matters, cause these slimy AAA companies are already ahead of the game

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Companies have already made an effort to circumvent this by not having the loot boxes/microtransactions in the game at launch, and then adding them afterwards. The people in power to make this sort of regulation happen need to find a way to deal with that before it matters, cause these slimy AAA companies are already ahead of the game

Shouldn’t the law require the disclaimer regardless? It would seem as long as the product is sold either physically or digitally, the box or buying page should highlight that shit in bold red.

 

[Gergar12]

On one hand, Europe seems to be implementing this to counter US tech companies, and would never try it with their own home-brew talent so it seems hypocritical, but this is a positive consumer development that should be spread across the board.

The only additional feature I would add to this is to spread it throughout the EU since the EU, China, the US, and Japan are the only country-wide markets that can get away with harsh penalties on gambling.

If one diminutive EU country like Latvia attempts this, or even a moderately sized Germany goes alone on this regulation, Electronic Arts will just boycott the whole country.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Companies have already made an effort to circumvent this by not having the loot boxes/microtransactions in the game at launch, and then adding them afterwards. The people in power to make this sort of regulation happen need to find a way to deal with that before it matters, cause these slimy AAA companies are already ahead of the game

If they do that they should be forced to recall all previously printed copies of the game to repackage them with corrected packaging highlighting the change. All at the cost of the publisher.

Problem solved.

 

[laggyteabag]

Governments behind the curve, as always.

Aside from sports games, the industry has already moved on to other forms of microtransactions. I cant even remember the last major AAA game that I played that included lootboxes.

I guess this will affect mobile games too (if they even actually get rated - which I doubt many do).

 

[MrCalavera]

Isn't there already a PEGI "gambling elements" rating sort of thing?

EDIT: Oh wait, right, Germany has its own rating system. nvm

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[CriticalGaming]

Germany wants to add loot box warning to video game ratings

UPDATE: The Bundestag has amended its announcement about the passing of reform of the Youth Protection Act to remove me…

www.eurogamer.net

The net closes ever further on EA and other companies cash cows it seems

FUCK YEAH! DO it Germany! Let's purge microtransactions out of our games....or at least warn people that game's contain things that suck.

 

[CriticalGaming]

To be fair to governments, several of the European ones have been on the ball since the release of Overwatch and really interested since the Battlefront 2 debacle. In some part, it is their investigations into legislation to outlaw or restrict loot boxes that have forced the hand of the gaming companies into finding new ways to MTX. For me, the last AAA game I played with them was The Division 2 (2019 release), which had it for its cosmetics.

It's funny because people were all mad about the $10 price hike for PS5 and SerXboxXX games. But I would gladly pay $70 for a game that was created to be a self contained game with no further micro payments contained within. If that's how companies have to stay motivated (it's bullshit but hard to argue realistically) then fine. But those game better be fucking solid stand alone experiences. Hell I already buy $90+ games if they come with cool statues, so....I'm a moron anyway.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

These virtual card packs have a chance to include powerful players, adding an element of pay-to-win to Ultimate Team. While FIFA 21, the latest version of the game, does highlight pack odds, players are never sure which cards they will get.

I don't get how this will go through because this already exists physically like Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh or baseball cards,

 

[CriticalGaming]

I don't get how this will go through because this already exists physically like Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh or baseball cards,

The difference is that when you buy physical packs you have a physical good, even if you didn't get the card you wanted. Those unwanted cards can be sold or traded for the one you did want.

In FIFA or whatever, if you don't get something you can use in the game then you are left with literally nothing. You can't trade it, you can't sell it, it is meaningless and nothing.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

The difference is that when you buy physical packs you have a physical good, even if you didn't get the card you wanted. Those unwanted cards can be sold or traded for the one you did want.

In FIFA or whatever, if you don't get something you can use in the game then you are left with literally nothing. You can't trade it, you can't sell it, it is meaningless and nothing.

So then there just needs to be a digital marketplace and it's all cool? Claw machines can give you nothing though.

You can get still get a bunch of commons in a physical card pack that no one wants. Even if you have 1,000 commons, you can't trade them for the one card you want because nobody would do that. It's still gambling IMO regardless if it's physical or digital, but it's not going to be considered gambling because of all the pre-established physical equivalents.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Claw machines can give you nothing though.

Well those machines get away with being "games of skill". there isn't chance involved with that, because the user can pick what prize they want to go for and it's skill that will yield them the prize not RNG.

So then there just needs to be a digital marketplace and it's all cool?

Theoretically yes, but there would need to be some way for the player to "cash out". Basically if they can create a market, and allow the user to get rid of all cards in inventory for a cash payout, then sure you could do it. But it would still be hard to argue that it isn't gambling outright. Because the only physical good in that case would be money.

With cards you are never promised anything but a pack of cards. Those cards have no value unless someone else offers you value for them, therefore what the card company is selling is in no way the chance to make money off the pack of cards.

And that's the key difference legally. When the only exchange is money or nothing, it's gambling. When you actually exchange money for a physical good regardless of future value, it's not.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

On one hand, Europe seems to be implementing this to counter US tech companies, and would never try it with their own home-brew talent so it seems hypocritical, but this is a positive consumer development that should be spread across the board.

The only additional feature I would add to this is to spread it throughout the EU since the EU, China, the US, and Japan are the only country-wide markets that can get away with harsh penalties on gambling.

If one diminutive EU country like Latvia attempts this, or even a moderately sized Germany goes alone on this regulation, Electronic Arts will just boycott the whole country.

I doubt Japan wants to or that it would even change anything given how much they love gatcha games, and betting on horses is almost a national tradition.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Theoretically yes, but there would need to be some way for the player to "cash out". Basically if they can create a market, and allow the user to get rid of all cards in inventory for a cash payout, then sure you could do it. But it would still be hard to argue that it isn't gambling outright. Because the only physical good in that case would be money.

With cards you are never promised anything but a pack of cards. Those cards have no value unless someone else offers you value for them, therefore what the card company is selling is in no way the chance to make money off the pack of cards.

And that's the key difference legally. When the only exchange is money or nothing, it's gambling. When you actually exchange money for a physical good regardless of future value, it's not.

You ain't promised nothing but a pack of cards digitally either. Also, real cards aren't worth anything either unless they are desired by other people (unless you're gonna argue that the piece of cardboard is worth like a couple cents). A pack of any physical cards cost way more than just the cost to make them (+ whatever profit to be made). You're buying the cards hoping for something good. You get something for your money in the loot boxes/card packs too.

 

[CriticalGaming]

You ain't promised nothing but a pack of cards digitally either. Also, real cards aren't worth anything either unless they are desired by other people (unless you're gonna argue that the piece of cardboard is worth like a couple cents). A pack of any physical cards cost way more than just the cost to make them (+ whatever profit to be made). You're buying the cards hoping for something good. You get something for your money in the loot boxes/card packs too.

Real cards, no matter what you get can be used in decks and still used to play the game (let's say magic the gathering or pokemon here) so they hold a "value" regardless. But those digital cards do not, you often can't use them because Ultimate Team game modes tend to have limited slots which means that any cards you get below the powerlevel of whatever is already in your team, then they are useless.

With real card games you can always make more decks, you aren't limited to the number of decks you can build or use, and therefore even dupes of cards can be used in many many many decks. Plus you still have the collection aspect of the cards which you can fill a portfolio that won't disappear the moment EA turns the game server off. So long as you want the cards you can keep the cards, but you don't have that choice with digital cards.

You can have the bestest team in FIFA '20, but the moment FIFA '21 comes out your '20 team means fucking nothing. You don't get to transfer the cards, you don't have any sort of portfolio linked to your game account, once you and the publish move to a different version, you're cards are gone....poof.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Real cards, no matter what you get can be used in decks and still used to play the game (let's say magic the gathering or pokemon here) so they hold a "value" regardless. But those digital cards do not, you often can't use them because Ultimate Team game modes tend to have limited slots which means that any cards you get below the powerlevel of whatever is already in your team, then they are useless.

With real card games you can always make more decks, you aren't limited to the number of decks you can build or use, and therefore even dupes of cards can be used in many many many decks. Plus you still have the collection aspect of the cards which you can fill a portfolio that won't disappear the moment EA turns the game server off. So long as you want the cards you can keep the cards, but you don't have that choice with digital cards.

You can have the bestest team in FIFA '20, but the moment FIFA '21 comes out your '20 team means fucking nothing. You don't get to transfer the cards, you don't have any sort of portfolio linked to your game account, once you and the publish move to a different version, you're cards are gone....poof.

Real cards also hold the advantage of house rules. Hearthstone has a standard and wild format, one with the last six expansions of cards and the core set being able to be used in it while wild has everything. There's no options for anyone that wants to play a game with only the cards of certain expansions or potentially make some kind of in house game out of the cards.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Real cards also hold the advantage of house rules. Hearthstone has a standard and wild format, one with the last six expansions of cards and the core set being able to be used in it while wild has everything. There's no options for anyone that wants to play a game with only the cards of certain expansions or potentially make some kind of in house game out of the cards.

Well the Computer versions of the card games are a whole other ball game because they too also fall really close to the gambling line and if loot boxes are going to be crushed, then it is likely that the computer card games are going to also have to figure out a different system for monetization.

I think they still avoid being gambling technically because they have systems that allow the player to use cards they don't want/need and craft the cards that they do want/need.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Real cards, no matter what you get can be used in decks and still used to play the game (let's say magic the gathering or pokemon here) so they hold a "value" regardless. But those digital cards do not, you often can't use them because Ultimate Team game modes tend to have limited slots which means that any cards you get below the powerlevel of whatever is already in your team, then they are useless.

With real card games you can always make more decks, you aren't limited to the number of decks you can build or use, and therefore even dupes of cards can be used in many many many decks. Plus you still have the collection aspect of the cards which you can fill a portfolio that won't disappear the moment EA turns the game server off. So long as you want the cards you can keep the cards, but you don't have that choice with digital cards.

You can have the bestest team in FIFA '20, but the moment FIFA '21 comes out your '20 team means fucking nothing. You don't get to transfer the cards, you don't have any sort of portfolio linked to your game account, once you and the publish move to a different version, you're cards are gone....poof.

I know Magic removes cards from tourney play over the years. You can still get garbage commons in physical cards. Even if you're doing some deck that uses 10 of such and such card, getting an 11th of that card is going to be useless. Getting an under-level card in those team modes could be useful, I would prioritize the players I like vs using the better rated players that I don't like. For example, when I played in the official The Show tourney (before the team modes even existed), I'd play as the lowest rated Mariners because that's who I wanted to play as and everyone played as the Yankees pretty much and I still beat them and made it into the tourney. Player skill is more important than the stats of the players.

Real cards also hold the advantage of house rules. Hearthstone has a standard and wild format, one with the last six expansions of cards and the core set being able to be used in it while wild has everything. There's no options for anyone that wants to play a game with only the cards of certain expansions or potentially make some kind of in house game out of the cards.

The game could have the option of creating custom games/rooms like how that used to be a basic feature in online shooters.