Hogwarts Legacy Will Allow For Transgender Characters

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CriticalGaming

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That's a blog... with what could, generously, be described as anecdotes from a very small number of people for "evidence."

A quick google search could come up with websites equally as valid that claim bigfoot is real, vaccines cause autism, or the moon landing was faked.
And the Earth is flat!!!
 

Casual Shinji

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The fact you still call him a piece of shit is part of the problem i mentioned. He did a wrong thing one time and so he is a piece of shit for life. Maria might have set up that apology, but there was nothing in his words or body language that suggested he wasnt legit sorry.

Someone can have nasty thoughts about people without automatically being a racist of a phobe. Sometimes you just get mad enough that you just say the most harmful thing you can in the moment. Anger doesnt mean bigotry.

But again it has to do with the writing and they needed him to be an asshole in that moment. So it is hard to tell anymore about that guy.
The dude came up to them, telling them not to kiss in public, Dina says sorry and walks away with Ellie, then he throws more shade on them and how they shouldn't do that infront of children, Dina throws some shade back, and then he throws out a slur. That slur indicating he approached them because he thinks gays shouldn't do that in public. Then even after Maria and Tommy guide him away since he was the instigator, he still points out Dina and Ellie for being gay in public. And yes, he was written to an asshole, but this behaviour is far from unrealistic, and when someone displays that kind of behavior they're a piece of shit. And whether or not it's for life depends on how long they tend to display that behaviour. You can't exactly blame Ellie for not forgiving him the very next morning because he made her some sandwiches and blamed calling her a d*** on being drunk. He didn't do either of those things by accident by the way.

Someone can have nasty thoughts about people, but if those nasty thoughts are about them being black, or gay, or trans then I'm sorry, but they are racist/homophobic. And even then you won't be called racist or homophobic unless you express those thoughts, like for example in the heat of the moment or when you're drunk. And yes, I'm sure there's people who might say some incredibly hurtful things in the heat of the moment and who feel bad about it afterwards, but the person who was insulted has every right to not want to deal with that individual anymore, especially if it's a case of that individual saying those things periodically.
 
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Baffle

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What gets me on the Mein Kampf stuff is not Ebay selling it (again I see the historical argument of studying it etc) it's the antique versions being sold or the suppose Nazi memorabilia versions / collectors versions being sold.

Like sure some of the people paying $300+ for a copy might just be interested in wartime artefacts but I have to think the bigger market for it is actual Neo-Nazis wanting an authentic WWII collectors version or something.
I don't disagree. I can't think of any other market for it apart from elite collectors who might want to preserve an early copy for it's historical value, but I imagine there's far more neo-Nazis than there are elite collectors.
 

Silvanus

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I'm not going to go in-depth addressing the article, because it's tangential. Suffice it to say that the detail in there about parents feeling they can be "blacklisted" is obviously wrong, if true, and would indicate that some people are taking shit too far. That would of course go beyond criticism or "self-censorship", into the realm of an institution abusing its power.

I agree, but that's not the point I was responding to. To quote your original post:

"Storytelling & plot are valid grounds for criticism, and the political stances a game takes are a part of that. It's perfectly valid to criticise the plot of a game if it makes a crass/ shitty political argument"

The problem I have to consider is what counts as a "crass/shitty political argument" in the first place. I certainly have my ideas, but there's the question of how much that 'taints' the work. Again, to use those prior arguments - in Starship Troopers, Heinlein presents a vision for society that I completely disagree with. But on the other, the argument itself is presented succinctly, and the novel has extremely solid worldbuilding. Similarly, HDM. I agree with Pullman's thesis, that religion is a baleful influence on the human condition, but the argument is presented with no subtlety at all, and Lyra's such an unlikable twat, that I can't stand it.

Or, Battlefield 3 and Assault Horizon. Both are remarkably similar in their approach to warfare in terms of theme and worldbuilding, but BF3 is just simply terribly told. You could make it as apolitical as possible, and it would still be terrible. Assault Horizon, even if it hemogenizes Africa, even if it's got the tired trope of "those damn Russians," it's still solidly told.

I can list numerous examples across numerous mediums. We all can. Question is, how much is the quality of a work dependent on its theme?
That's up to the individual. All criticism is subjective. If it doesn't bother you, then that's that. But it clearly does affect the enjoyment some people derive from media, so it's fair for them to bring it up.

Think of music, for instance. I'm very lyrically-focused when I'm listening to music, and if a song can make a particularly powerful point through lyricism, that's usually a point in its favour. And I'm unavoidably going to find it more moving if it's a point that I have some sympathy with. The enjoyment I gain from listening to Bob Dylan, Billy Bragg etc is greater because they're singing about things I can empathise with. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to automatically dislike a song expressing a point-of-view I don't agree with; I could still enjoy the musicality, the instrumentalism, the turn-of-phrase etc. It's merely one aspect of the work.
 

Silvanus

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Websites covering the story mostly
Can you provide one? As I mentioned, I have looked around and couldn't find any reference to that.


OED has a fixed descriptor though for it.
Unless I'm being quite silly, the OED doesn't let you browse it online. Look at the Merriam-Webster definition, though;

Merriam Webster said:
a right-wing, primarily online political movement or grouping based in the U.S. whose members reject mainstream conservative politics and espouse extremist beliefs and policies typically centered on ideas of white nationalism.
So, the definition relies on other subjective terms: "right-wing", "mainstream conservative", "extremist". And also a few qualifications: "primarily", "typically".

Dictionary definitions are simply intended to give an indication of how a term is generally used. Plenty of them aren't demonstrable, or ultimately objective. This is one example of that.

You tend to look up a dictionary definition and challenge it. Because those are generally the accepted upon definitions and if you're not using one it's generally good form to state the definition you are using, unless you're doing it just out of malice to smear some-one.
You're missing the point. I'm not saying the dictionary definition is wrong, or that some other specific definition is being used. I'm saying that no definition is going to be exact or objectively provable. Such is the case for most political descriptors.

Really, though, what's your solution? You seem to be saying that the use of the term constitutes slander or libel, and therefore the speaker shouldn't be able to use it. Am I understanding that right? Because if so, you're protecting the freedom-of-speech of Gina Carano by... restricting the freedom-of-speech of those who would criticise her.
 

Baffle

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Unless I'm being quite silly, the OED doesn't let you browse it online.
No, it's subscription based. Some libraries subscribe to it, which means you can log on via your library membership (fewer libraries are now though, because of the reduced fees combined, I think, with increased prices).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The fact you still call him a piece of shit is part of the problem i mentioned. He did a wrong thing one time and so he is a piece of shit for life. Maria might have set up that apology, but there was nothing in his words or body language that suggested he wasnt legit sorry.
"One time"=one time on camera, "For life"=still mad the next day.

Are you sure you aren't just trying to Cancel Ellie? Because I work retail, and if I get somebody being a flagrant asshole in public, that gets talked about for years.
 

Hawki

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That's a blog... with what could, generously, be described as anecdotes from a very small number of people for "evidence."
By a former NYT journalist who's citing statistics from the Hetrodox Academy.

Not all blogs are equal.
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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By a former NYT journalist who's citing statistics from the Hetrodox Academy.

Not all blogs are equal.
Whilst we're just here posting columnists' opinions...


If you’re familiar with the navel-gazing internecine squabbles of the US national media, you probably know that Bari Weiss, the millennial conservative writer who for years attracted controversy and online consternation for her opinion columns, recently quit the New York Times, saying that the newspaper was insufficiently supportive of her because of her political views.

Weiss’s departure comes on the heels of an open letter, signed by more than 150 pundits, commentators and public intellectuals, Weiss included, that decried the censoriousness of internet “cancel culture”. And that letter itself came soon after the firing of Weiss’s mentor, James Bennet, as the New York Times’ opinion editor, in response to the publication of an op-ed calling for the use of state violence against protesters, which Bennet claimed not to have read.

After announcing her resignation, Weiss published a letter to the paper’s publisher, AG Sulzberger, citing her reasons for departing the paper. “My own forays into Wrongthink have made me the subject of constant bullying by colleagues who disagree with my views,” Weiss wrote. “My work and my character are openly demeaned in company-wide Slack channels.”

The assertion of much of Weiss’s future work is likely to be that a culture of illiberal liberalism at the New York Times and other media outlets has victimized her personally, and is also gravely dangerous for the republic. Weiss has already moved to enhance her own career by positioning herself as a martyr for free speech and a brave defender of unpopular truths. With this claim, Weiss will have many of her fellow elites nodding along sympathetically: the open letter, combined with a pearl-clutchingly offended response to Bennet’s ouster, has made it clear that there is a section of the professional intellectual class – pundits, thinktank operatives and tenured professors – who feel shocked and affronted by the online rudeness of those who disagree with them. This clique has ushered in a creature unique to the era of internet media, whose ascent ironically threatens to plunge our public discourse even further into the realm of bad faith: the professionally cancelled pundit.

The professionally cancelled pundit is a genre of primarily center-right contrarian who makes their living by deliberately provoking outrage online, and then claiming that the outrage directed at them is evidence of an intolerant left run amok. Usually but not exclusively white millennials or Gen X writers, the cancelled pundit has a sheen of faded patrician prestige, like a stack of unread New Yorkers in a basket beside a toilet. They believe themselves deserving of deference and they think themselves brave for complaining when they don’t get it. They’re beloved by white boomers, Romney Republicans and those who use the word “woke” derisively. Their work is meant to appeal to people uncomfortable with social forces that challenge the established hierarchy of power.

But the letter, and the assertions by the cancelled pundits that they are defenders of free speech, is misguided on a number of fronts.

First, in framing sometimes rude online reaction to their opinions as a first amendment issue, they confuse for a violation of their civic right to free speech a personal discomfort with the tone of those who talk back. And second, while they are correct in noting that platforms such as Twitter, where many of these aggrieved public figures seem to spend a great deal of their time, can be rancorous, they are wrong in assigning the cause of this indecorousness in the public conversation to a censorious nature in the left ideologies they oppose. Weiss and her compatriots believe that public discourse has become less decorous because it has moved to the left. But really, it’s because it has moved online.

The fact is that rudeness is incentivized by social media platforms; the slow, dispassionate “argument” that the professionally cancelled pundit claim to be advocating for is not. “Social media as a ‘public square’ where ‘good faith debate’ happens is a thing of the past,” the Slate writer Lili Loofbourow explained in her own Twitter thread. “Disagreement here [online] happens through trolling, sea-lioning, ratios, and dunks. Bad faith is the condition of the modern internet.” This is in large part because online platforms are designed that way: to maximize engagement, they promote the most incendiary content and reward outrage, shock and performative disdain.

Are the professionally cancelled pundits naive about the way social media platforms incentivize crudeness, or are they merely playing dumb? I suspect the latter. The cancelled pundits are right that social media can be asinine. But they are not victims of this dynamic: they seem to be savvy manipulators of it. Signatories of the open letter, including Weiss but also many others, have built careers and their own notoriety by seeming to solicit and revel in online anger. They direct deliberately offensive screeds at the sections of social media that are most likely to be incensed by them; they pick fights with people with large Twitter followings so that those people will publicly retort.

Watching the behavior of the professionally cancelled makes the outraged attention they receive seem less like an unfortunate or unfair byproduct of good faith engagement than like a deliberately solicited result, leading me to believe that many these pundits manufacture controversy so as to drive attention to themselves – and, crucially, so as to drive web traffic to their pieces. They want to be cancelled, too, so that they can depict themselves as rebels; the outraged attention they solicit has the added bonus of giving transgressive glamour to their otherwise repetitious, poorly researched and incurious writing.

As far as making money goes, this might not be such a bad strategy. In the digital media sphere, where clicks are revenue and outrage drives clicks, attention is itself a currency, and it holds the same value whether it is laudatory or vexed. Of all people, Weiss should have known this: the New York Times opinion section, where she worked, was such a huge driver of traffic that it became integral to the paper’s revenue model, in no small part because of the outraged online attention that her own articles generated. When we consider this reality, the claims that she and the rest of the professionally cancelled make to being defenders of free speech seem like flimsy pretenses of civic mindedness, meant to justify their own careers as glorified shock jocks.

But for all their cynicism and sense of their own victimhood, the professionally cancelled are not solely to blame for their manipulation of social media. So are those of us who reward them with our notice. The outraged are complicit in the actions of the outrage-mongers. If liberals and progressives stopped giving these people our eyes, our clicks, and hours of our lives, then their power to rake in money, to shore up their own fame, and to determine the parameters of the public conversation would be diminished. If we want these people to be less powerful, then we have to stop giving them what they want: our attention.

Weiss’s resignation letter reads less like an internal HR document and more like a pitch for a new venture, and it’s likely that Weiss will soon be outfitted with a book deal or a cushy new perch from which to continue her opining. Hours after Weiss announced her departure from the Times, another professional contrarian, Andrew Sullivan, who has provoked outrage for his repeated endorsements of race science, announced that he would be leaving his longtime role at New York magazine. The conservative talking head Ben Shapiro also left his role as editor-in-chief at the rightwing clickbait outlet the Daily Wire.

The simultaneous moves from three professional rightwing attention seekers prompted speculation that they are planning to launch a new venture together. If they do, it is sure to produce a lot of outrage bait, snappy headlines and unkind missives meant to move readers from shock to anger, and from anger to clicks. This time, let’s not fall for it./QUOTE]
 

Hawki

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Whilst we're just here posting columnists' opinions...
Actually, the main reason I cited that blog was to cite the statistic given.

Even if you hold the view that every case cited is an isolated incident, I've seen no counter-statistic as to the rate of self-censorship.

And it's not as if this is an American thing only. Recently there was a report here about Chinese students in Oz self-censoring because they're scared of saying anything that will cause offence back home. I'm not sure if the US academic sector wants its students to be under similar conditions as Chinese ones, but hey, what do I know?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Can you provide one? As I mentioned, I have looked around and couldn't find any reference to that.



Unless I'm being quite silly, the OED doesn't let you browse it online. Look at the Merriam-Webster definition, though;
Google gets some of it's definitions from there actually.

OED google.png


So, the definition relies on other subjective terms: "right-wing", "mainstream conservative", "extremist". And also a few qualifications: "primarily", "typically".

Dictionary definitions are simply intended to give an indication of how a term is generally used. Plenty of them aren't demonstrable, or ultimately objective. This is one example of that.
YEs an if you're using the term in a non general way and not intending malice you give the definition you're using. You don't magically expect people to be mind readers and know what you meant.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying the dictionary definition is wrong, or that some other specific definition is being used. I'm saying that no definition is going to be exact or objectively provable. Such is the case for most political descriptors.

Really, though, what's your solution? You seem to be saying that the use of the term constitutes slander or libel, and therefore the speaker shouldn't be able to use it. Am I understanding that right? Because if so, you're protecting the freedom-of-speech of Gina Carano by... restricting the freedom-of-speech of those who would criticise her.
And in this case if you can show to a decent degree the standard definition doesn't fit then it's entirely possible to claim the use was as a pejorative rather than a properly used label.

The term can be used but to use UK law the generally defining factor is malice in the use. If evidence exists (and is easily accessible or available) to prove a claim false then it's classes as Slander or Libel. In Troy's case under UK law calling him alt-right would be slander or libel. His videos are public and some of them very much disprove the label. Under UK law there is a duty for journalists to do due diligence and some journalists have been on about how they didn't even watch any of his videos which yeh definitely not due diligence there
 

Buyetyen

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Even if you hold the view that every case cited is an isolated incident, I've seen no counter-statistic as to the rate of self-censorship.
So you want us to prove a negative? What would that entail? What would that look like?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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So you want us to prove a negative? What would that entail? What would that look like?
It's more the issue of how much evidence is needed to prove the claim and the idea of the scales of proof.
Yes what was presented were just a few cases but they have tipped the scale somewhat toward proving his point.
I've had similar arguments before where people said "Oh no-one was saying that" then I provide 5 tweets and suddenly it's not enough. I've done it before where I showed about 25 tweets and it was still not being deemed enough evidence people were saying it.
 

Silvanus

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I've read through that entire article, and cannot find any mention of her creating a hostile working environment at GCS. It actually reiterates what I mentioned, that the tweet wasn't related to her work for GCS.

YEs an if you're using the term in a non general way and not intending malice you give the definition you're using. You don't magically expect people to be mind readers and know what you meant.
We're talking about off-the-cuff social media communications like tweets and Facebook posts, here, aren't we? When people use social media, they very rarely provide the full definitions for any subjective terms they're using; we all assume some level of general understanding.

I mean, look at this forum. How many times have people just casually used the terms "woke", "conservative", "progressive", "SJW", etc? These are all subjective terms. You can't expect the posters to provide full working definitions, and nor can you decry the poster's free ability to throw those terms about (I mean, I know you throw about terms like these yourself!)

And in this case if you can show to a decent degree the standard definition doesn't fit then it's entirely possible to claim the use was as a pejorative rather than a properly used label.

The term can be used but to use UK law the generally defining factor is malice in the use. If evidence exists (and is easily accessible or available) to prove a claim false then it's classes as Slander or Libel. In Troy's case under UK law calling him alt-right would be slander or libel. His videos are public and some of them very much disprove the label. Under UK law there is a duty for journalists to do due diligence and some journalists have been on about how they didn't even watch any of his videos which yeh definitely not due diligence there
Defamation laws (including those in the UK) require a provable harm to the individual. It most certainly does not apply to random no-name Twitter users or social-media posts.

I mean... seriously, come on, now. Do you seriously want defamation laws to prevent ordinary members of the public from using subjective descriptive terms that public figures don't like? So, the Prime Minister can give a speech, but a member of the public cannot call it "harmful" or "dangerous". Just think about the implications of wanting defamation laws to cover descriptive terms used by average members of the public.
 

Hawki

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So you want us to prove a negative? What would that entail? What would that look like?
This isn't proving a negative. Even if it was, the standards are similar.

A study carried out by the Hetrodox Academy confirms that 61% of college students in the United States are self-censoring. To disprove that, you can either:

a) Examine the methedology and deem it insufficient.

b) Cite a different study that claims otherwise.

An example of proving a negative would be along the lines of proving that God doesn't exist. I can't prove that God doesn't exist. But if you want to claim that God exists, then the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Similarly, if there's a culture of self-censorship within the US, then statistics have been provided. So this isn't proving a negative, this is a counter-claim.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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I've read through that entire article, and cannot find any mention of her creating a hostile working environment at GCS. It actually reiterates what I mentioned, that the tweet wasn't related to her work for GCS.
Except that's not what I said. I said her response to the claims would be considered that.
That article has her public response to the claims as such.
She was asked for a response.
She gave a response.
The response she gave was to call people she was working with and their response to her wanting to burn books "Uninformed". As though they didn't know why they were against book burning.......

That is creating a hostile work environment by showing a highly dismissive lack of respect toward others you're meant to work with.

We're talking about off-the-cuff social media communications like tweets and Facebook posts, here, aren't we? When people use social media, they very rarely provide the full definitions for any subjective terms they're using; we all assume some level of general understanding.
Yet the level of general understanding must be the words present generally accepted definition. Otherwise it can and will allow people to Weasel their way out of stuff. E.G. if I were to call you a certain F word I won't write here and we worked on the "Oh I was using a different definition" it easily allows me to pretend I was calling you a bundle of sticks or a pork sage and onion ball of meat.

Words have meanings and if you're not using the most common meaning or the meaning isn't always clear you should clarify.


I mean, look at this forum. How many times have people just casually used the terms "woke", "conservative", "progressive", "SJW", etc? These are all subjective terms. You can't expect the posters to provide full working definitions, and nor can you decry the poster's free ability to throw those terms about (I mean, I know you throw about terms like these yourself!)
Which is why quite often people get challenged on those terms and like I did earlier in this very thread they give definitions.


Defamation laws (including those in the UK) require a provable harm to the individual. It most certainly does not apply to random no-name Twitter users or social-media posts.
Actually in the UK it does.
The incident before where I mentioned the false claim of a member of the lord being a pedophile spreading on social media did hit both UK celebs and no name UK users. The celebs had to pay some fairly hefty chunks of change and I think put out a correction or apology. The no named ones had the court mandate them donate I think it was £2 each to a charity organisation.

The UK harm dismissal requires you to prove there was no harm done to the person.
That is different to the USA where you have to prove the harm was done by said action.

As I already pointed out in the USA this can be exploited as you need a direct comment saying the reason action was taken was due to said comments etc and many employers won't do that because it opens them up to unlawful dismissal suits.

In the UK you'd have to prove the employers didn't fire a person due to your actions.



I mean... seriously, come on, now. Do you seriously want defamation laws to prevent ordinary members of the public from using subjective descriptive terms that public figures don't like? So, the Prime Minister can give a speech, but a member of the public cannot call it "harmful" or "dangerous". Just think about the implications of wanting defamation laws to cover descriptive terms used by average members of the public.
I'd rather stop seeing highly weighted damaging terms used as pejoratives by people as a means to attack and harm others then trying to weasel word out of calling some-one a racist because under one specific ideological definition of being a racist it means they once at a curry cooked by a white chef in a restaurant without having consent from an Indian person to partake is a cultural dish. Or they once worse a Yukata or Kimono they bought without express permission from a Japanese person.

The UK law also has parliamentary privilege which is basically everything said in the house of commons is considered basically politically gamesmanship. The Speaker can enforce rules of the house on speech and eject people or apply some minor punishments or reprimand but if it's said in parliament it's exempt from the law. E.G. The use of parliamentary privilege to name people who took out super injunctions without facing the punishment for breaking said super injunction.
 

Dalisclock

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The fact you still call him a piece of shit is part of the problem i mentioned. He did a wrong thing one time and so he is a piece of shit for life. Maria might have set up that apology, but there was nothing in his words or body language that suggested he wasnt legit sorry.

Someone can have nasty thoughts about people without automatically being a racist of a phobe. Sometimes you just get mad enough that you just say the most harmful thing you can in the moment. Anger doesnt mean bigotry.

But again it has to do with the writing and they needed him to be an asshole in that moment. So it is hard to tell anymore about that guy.
There's an argument to be made that if you're using racist/homopobic slurs when you're drunk or really mad, you might well be a racist/homophobe who'se just really good at hiding it most of the time.

In Vino Veritas and all that.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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This isn't proving a negative. Even if it was, the standards are similar.

A study carried out by the Hetrodox Academy confirms that 61% of college students in the United States are self-censoring. To disprove that, you can either:

a) Examine the methedology and deem it insufficient.

b) Cite a different study that claims otherwise.
If you take the methodology of that study and apply it to literally any group of people ever, you'd probably get the same result. All you have to do to be one of the "61% of self-censoring college students" is to be uncomfortable in expressing your opinion about one (1) controversial topic among a half-dozen different controversial topics.

Fuck, *I'd* be one of those 61%, depending on the class and the topic, mainly because I'm just barely self aware enough to know that I know jack and/or shit about plenty of things. Considering that that study would also be counting the students who are the reason that my Anthropology 101 lecture class with 100 students in it had to have the disclaimer "the student teacher will not be debating creationism in this class, there is not enough time to get through the material", this study is basically worthless.

Quite frankly, if you are the sort of person who's completely unworried about talking about their opinion on politics, race, religion, gender, abortion, and/or every other controversial topic under the sun, you either give absolutely zero fucks and/or are an asshole
 
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Buyetyen

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This isn't proving a negative. Even if it was, the standards are similar.

A study carried out by the Hetrodox Academy confirms that 61% of college students in the United States are self-censoring. To disprove that, you can either:

a) Examine the methedology and deem it insufficient.

b) Cite a different study that claims otherwise.

An example of proving a negative would be along the lines of proving that God doesn't exist. I can't prove that God doesn't exist. But if you want to claim that God exists, then the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. Similarly, if there's a culture of self-censorship within the US, then statistics have been provided. So this isn't proving a negative, this is a counter-claim.
I fail to see how it's a bad thing that people don't voice certain opinions, like for example, racism and transphobia. You can think that shit all you want, but the instant you voice it or act on it, we have a problem. There's a lot of shit I don't say it public because it's inappropriate. If you consider that a bad thing, it's worth asking why. I'm gonna agree with GX that if someone has no filter, it's because they're an asshole.
 
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