The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[laggyteabag]

Well, I made a thread for WandaVision, so I may as well make another one for this show.

I haven't had a chance to watch the first episode yet, but im looking forward to getting a chance to do so, later on tonight.

This one looks a lot more like your standard Marvel fare, so im not expecting anything crazy with this one, but the Captain America films were always my favourite, so if this can scratch the same itch, I will be happy.

Again, just as with WandaVision, im just happy to see these side-characters get to stand out on their own, without being under the shadow of an A-List hero, like Captain America, or Iron Man.

So, has anyone watched the show yet? What did you think?

Spoilers, obviously

 

[Bob_McMillan]

It was fine. A little disappointing after all the hype with Wandavision maybe, but that couldn't be helped.

The action is good, but noticeably not at the levels of the Captain America movies. But the action was such a small part of the episode, they focused more on Sam and Bucky's new lives and set up a lot of drama for the rest of the season (Bucky especially). Because of the blip, and because Bucky's a hundred years old, both of them are men out of time and it seems the show will be dealing mainly with them trying to catch up.

Still can't believe they were able to make a character like Falcon cool. Man in a bird-costume, now one of the main faces of the MCU. He's come a long way.

The reveal of US Agent has me thinking, how exactly will they make him an anti-hero? Or possibly the villain. He's supposed to be a more vicious Captain America, but MCU Cap was never squeamish about taking lives. I'm really hoping they don't take it down a racial/police brutality route. I know they're important issues but I'm really tired of seeing our real world shittiness in media.

Also, I had to google this Torres guy. Completely forgot he became the next Falcon, except he was literally half-falcon.

 

[Buyetyen]

This TV format works a lot better for complex character arcs. I'm pleased that we're getting see Sam and Bucky as human beings trying to put their lives back together.

"Funny how things always tighten up for people like us." That line stuck with me. The showrunner said that Black Panther opened a door that can't be easily closed again and I'm here for it. Good speculative fiction is fundamentally about people.

 

[SilentPony]

Okay so I watched it, and I'm just going to do these in no particular order:

Spoiler

-Just right off the bat what the fuck happened with WandaVision if they can write episodes like this? Boom first 3 minutes I'm actually interested because Sam is on a mission to save an Air Force captain from terrorists. Like wow firm context with characters doing their jobs, not spending 3 whole episodes establishing the world is fake when it can be done in 1.

-Bucky in therapy I love, and his therapist calling out his bullshit and calling him a loser with no friends was a little harsh, but probably needed for a 106 year old PTSD riddle war vet Hydra torture victim assassin cripple.

-The date scene was a little long, and odd that no one recognizes him as Bucky when his face is literally in museums and history books. Not sure we're they're going with the love interest, and I don't know enough about his comic book character to know if she's a throw away character or like someone important. I'm hoping for the former, but I suspect the latter.

-I liked that Sam Wilson, despite being an Avenger and world renown hero who fought Thanos twice and helped take down Hydra is still seen as just another unemployed lazy black man by the banks. Just a nice piece of social commentary, and clearly that will be part of his journey in the show. It was odd they said he had no income for 5 years when its established he's taking mercenary contracts from the Airforce to stay afloat. And also I thought military vets got automatically approved for certain loans, but I'm just guessing.

-Not sure where they're going with the Flag Smashers or whatever. Are they more Hydra super soldiers? Mutants? Part of Ross's New Weapon program?

-Yay Rhodey!

-It was cool to see the Leaper again, I hope he gets more scenes. Its nice to have just like dudes fighting dudes, and if this guy held his own for a few seconds against Captain America he's gonna be tough for Sam.

-Uncle Sam! On the nose as fuck, but cute

-Not really sure where they're going with the sister and nephews. She seems like legit angry he was snapped away and it now daring to come back and try to help. Like I get everyone is traumatized, but I dunno, she was very defensive against someone who fought to stop Thanos. Does she know he's the Falcon?

Overall I enjoyed it, if a few scenes were slow, and I really hope this story goes somewhere.

 

[Casual Shinji]

They certainly broke out the super bucks for that opening. It was oddly a better action scene than I'm used to from the MCU.

And it looks like they might turn the fan criticism of Sam being handed the mantle by Steve - him not being a super soldier and all, and how it actually should've been Bucky - into the overarching narrative. With Sam needing to find/prove his worth as the new Captain America, and how him not having the super juice in him doesn't mean anything. Which if that's where they're going I'm very much on board with it.

 

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[gorfias]

I kept wondering what someone 40-50 years ago would have made of this show. I'm gonna have to do some searching to see if I can find any flying scenes from "Condor Man" to enjoy just how far we've come.

Already a couple of good comments comparing the quick boot of this show vs. WandaVision, which I think had way too much fun with it's black mystery box theme.

EDIT: That wasn't too hard

 

[laggyteabag]

Watched it last night, and I really enjoyed this episode.

The action at the beginning was a lot of fun, and a direct callback to Captain America: The Winter Soldier, which is one of my favourite MCU films, so that was nice.

I liked the fact that they setup the villains in the first episode, which after WandaVision, was a refreshing change of pace.

And I liked the character focus of Sam and Bucky. The post-blip timeline continues to be really interesting, and its really nice to see what these characters are up to, when they aren't punching bad guys in the teeth.

I really hope that the show is just as fun, going forward.

 

[Gordon_4]

Solid beginning, enough action to whet the appetite, good character drama and all that usual high production values.

Though I still find it somewhat dubious that Sam Wilson, the Falcon and an Avenger, can't call in some favours or something.

 

[sXeth]

. It was odd they said he had no income for 5 years when its established he's taking mercenary contracts from the Airforce to stay afloat. And also I thought military vets got automatically approved for certain loans, but I'm just guessing.

I think they're referring to the 5 years when he was snapped. Moreso then whatever handful of contracts he's had in the timeframe since.


Though that brings up its own set of questions. Like why he is only contracted, why wouldn't they hire him full time, if for no other reason then to pragmatically stop him from working for someone else. Unless they go some way to really nail down why he can't find some kind of stable work despite being a literal one-of-a-kind asset. Bucky's status at least makes sense as there are dozens of reasons not to hire the guy in terms of his questionable reliability (and even super-powered, he's just kind of a guy who's really good with a gun)

 

[McElroy]

As an aside, it made me wonder if there's something like the Blackdel test (yes, that's a pun on Bechdel), which you pass by having two black characters talk about something that's not white people. When I started thinking about it, I couldn't name many major movies or series that would actually pass such a test.

Justice League (at least the Snyder cut that I watched halfway yesterday) passes. The only interesting point that test could raise is maybe in a movie with a bunch of black characters who somehow end up only talking about white people. But I dunno how serious you were about it.

 

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[SilentPony]

I think they're referring to the 5 years when he was snapped. Moreso then whatever handful of contracts he's had in the timeframe since.


Though that brings up its own set of questions. Like why he is only contracted, why wouldn't they hire him full time, if for no other reason then to pragmatically stop him from working for someone else. Unless they go some way to really nail down why he can't find some kind of stable work despite being a literal one-of-a-kind asset. Bucky's status at least makes sense as there are dozens of reasons not to hire the guy in terms of his questionable reliability (and even super-powered, he's just kind of a guy who's really good with a gun)

Yeah Sam is trusted with a stolen, billion dollar top secret flight suit and ai robot sidekick and runs blackops missions on behalf of the US government, but he didn't have his commission reinstated and doesn't have enough for a small business loan.
Although I think the set up is despite being Falcon, he's still just a black man to America.

 

[McElroy]

I can't think of many mainstream movies where you have two significant black characters, let alone two black characters interacting.

The three movies I've previously seen all pass: Bad Boys for Life (duh), Invisible Man (the two black characters in the film talk to each other about going to college), and Justice League (Cyborg and his parents talk about each other). I think you're maybe stuck in the past, American market expects there to be black characters in their movies nowadays.

OT: Probably not watching it for a good while. I'm pretty burnt out on Marvel/Disney stuff.

 

[SilentPony]

I just got to thinking about it in that scene with Sam and Rhodes. You have two prominent black actors who spend an entire scene talking about their dead, white friend. Obviously the rest of the episode passes with flying colors due to the interactions between Sam and his friends and family.

So it was mostly jesting, but much like the Bechdel test shows how sidelined women are in mainstream movies a similar test for people of color doesn't seem all that far fetched. Token Black Guy is a trope for a reason and when I got to thinking about it, I can't think of many mainstream movies where you have two significant black characters, let alone two black characters interacting.

Matrix 2 and 3, almost the entirety of Zion is black and they're not talking about white people, they're talking about fighting robots and saving the docks.
Although Neo is literally their white messiah...

At least for me I didn't see two black men talking about their white friend, I saw all but the only 2 heroes left talking about their lost leader. I mean Iron Man is dead, Black Widow is dead, Vision is dead sorta, Wanda is crazy, Thor is fat and off world, Captain Marvel is off world, Spiderman is in hiding for murder, Dr. Strange is just kinda missing, the Guardians are off world and don't care, Hawkeye is retired for good this time, Black Panther is dead, Hulk is smart and doesn't smash.
Really Warmachine and Falcon are like the only two still standing and still fighting, and they're mourning that Cap is retired, even if they both agree he deserves it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I can't think of many mainstream movies where you have two significant black characters, let alone two black characters interacting.

What the hell are you on about.
Coming 2 America came out a couple of weeks ago.
One Night in Miami, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, Judas and the Black Messiah, all three nominated to several awards.
Da 5 Bloods as well, which should've been nominated as well.
Sylvie's Love. Saw it on Amazon recently. And Time.
Also Dragged Across Concrete.
That's just off the top of my head.

 

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[Johnny Novgorod]

I obviously wasn't clear about what I meant when I wrote "mainstream movies". What I meant with that was movies written for a broad audience and with a "mixed cast". Your examples are all good movies, but they are also movies specifically about black people. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if anything it is long overdue that the experiences of black people actually get made into mainstream media. But there's something disconcerting about the fact that you have largely white casts with black supporting characters in movies about "general" topics and then relegate good actors of color to "their own" movies to star in.

This is obviously changing, I am not denying that and I don't have nearly enough time to watch all the movies I'd like so maybe I am missing the movies where actors of different ethnicities get to live it up together. But the movies I do watch that have a white protagonist very rarely include more then one or two black people in supporting roles and it is even more seldom that they interact in any serious fashion.

Forgot to mention Oscar nominees The United States vs. Billie Holiday, Soul and The Trial of the Chicago 7. Also Antebellum, Project Power and Rise of Skywalker. Except for Dragged Across Concrete every movie I've mentioned is a mainstream release from 2020 or 2021.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Token Black Guy is a trope for a reason and when I got to thinking about it, I can't think of many mainstream movies where you have two significant black characters, let alone two black characters interacting.

Oh, Predator. Mac and Dylan had a few scenes together where they discuss giving their position away, coming here and turning around, and both having a score to settle. They got some of the best lines.

And, Charlie's Angels, the recent one, unless nobody liking it prevents it from being mainstream.

That makes 2 I can think of off the top of my head, out of my DVD collection of several zillion.

 

[SilentPony]

And, Charlie's Angels, the recent one, unless nobody liking it prevents it from being mainstream.

I'll be honest I legit thought that movie hadn't come out yet or was quietly canceled. Apparently it came out 2 years ago quieter than a church mouse, bombed, and the studio was quick to dismiss it as a flawed vanity project and and just moved on with the public none the wiser.