Zack Snyder’s Justice League

[hanselthecaretaker]

I enjoyed that it was at least something more than a bunch of slapped together action scenes seemingly roadmapped by drunk frat boys, and it certainly had more heart, but it did take me three nights to watch entirely. Jared Leto nearly single-handedly ruined the prior 220+ minutes by reminding us just how god-awful his rendition of Joker is though.

Also...wtf.

Oh and another thing, it never even occurred to me that the original director also did the first couple Avengers movies. Like, how on earth could such a vast chasm of quality be present between two studios. It’s almost like he sabotaged JL, or just didn’t have squat around to prop his work up.

 

[Chimpzy]

Also...wtf.

Uhuh yeah, that right there is just sad and pathetic.

 

[Samtemdo8]

Uhuh yeah, that right there is just sad and pathetic.

Just letting everyone know that I don't approve of this.

Or jumping on the bandwagon of the hashtag.

 

[Thaluikhain]

You have to wonder, how many people spent how much time on that, and what that effort could have done if it was spent on something useful.

 

[happyninja42]

That's a problem with unpleasable fan bases and fanboys/gurl. It's never enough. They got what they wanted and they're still not satisfied.

What the fuck even needs to be "restored" ? I admit I don't follow this stuff at all, as DC has never been a big favorite of mine, but, seriously the fuck needs restoring? Are they wanting them to travel back in time and "restore" it to the original release several years ago?

 

[BrawlMan]

Are they wanting them to travel back in time and "restore" it to the original release several years ago

Nostalgia goggles is an ugly beautiful biatch isn't it?

 

[happyninja42]

Nostalgia goggles is an ugly beautiful biatch isn't it?

It can be yes, as it's basically why the phrase "ignorance is bliss" exists. We remember the past fondly, because it's a time when most of us didn't know a lot of things about how the world worked, and thus it didn't weigh us down with worry. But I always remember the other stuff going on in my own life back then, and it helps to wipe those goggles clean.

Seriously though, what do they want restored? I read the linked article over in the Kong thread, and it didn't explain anything about what they are pissing and moaning about.

 

[BrawlMan]

It can be yes, as it's basically why the phrase "ignorance is bliss" exists. We remember the past fondly, because it's a time when most of us didn't know a lot of things about how the world worked, and thus it didn't weigh us down with worry. But I always remember the other stuff going on in my own life back then, and it helps to wipe those goggles clean.

Seriously though, what do they want restored? I read the linked article over in the Kong thread, and it didn't explain anything about what they are pissing and moaning about.

They're literally pissing and moaning out about things they know they can't have or don't even exist. They're too blinded by "happy times" to know or care. Or wish you something they know is impossible, that they don't want to admit it. Because they do they know they have nothing of value but the fandom/product to define themselves instead of something else more important.

 

[happyninja42]

They're literally pissing and moaning out about things they know they can't have or don't even exist. They're too blinded by "happy times" to know or care. Or wish you something they know is impossible, that they don't want to admit it. Because they do they know they have nothing of value but the fandom/product to define themselves instead of something else more important.

But...I mean, I just...I'm so confused! They got their movie! They got FOUR FUCKING HOURS of it! It was restored! It exists! It is the opposite of that parrot in the Monty Python skit. It has not ceased to be! It is still upon this mortal coil! What is there to hashtag spam about now? To the extent of review bombing a completely unrelated film?!

Am I just off on the timeline of this? Is this referring to a # movement PRIOR to the release of the snyder cut? But that doesn't make any sense, because ever since the first notices about Zilla v Kong, we've already known TSCJL (The Snyder Cut Justice League) was a known quantity.

So I'm just totally baffled as to what there is to even try and champion.

 

[BrawlMan]

But...I mean, I just...I'm so confused! They got their movie! They got FOUR FUCKING HOURS of it! It was restored! It exists! It is the opposite of that parrot in the Monty Python skit. It has not ceased to be! It is still upon this mortal coil! What is there to hashtag spam about now? To the extent of review bombing a completely unrelated film?!

Am I just off on the timeline of this? Is this referring to a # movement PRIOR to the release of the snyder cut? But that doesn't make any sense, because ever since the first notices about Zilla v Kong, we've already known TSCJL (The Snyder Cut Justice League) was a known quantity.

So I'm just totally baffled as to what there is to even try and champion.

I'm about as dark in this situation as you are. I saw that post in the Kong forum, and I just assumed it showed people being spoiled. Nothing more and nothing less. Spoil people running away from their shallow and empty lives. You know that Linkin Park song "Easier To Run". It's what they're doing.

you know how unpleasable the Sonic fanbase can get. I know there are good people in the Sonic fan base. I'm one of them and I've met several, but you still have a whole bunch of people that are shattered and don't know what they want. When they got rid of most of the side characters in recent Sonic games, people complained that there was nothing for them to do. After people complained that there were too many characters. Though that one's just not the fandom's part, but professional critics like Yahtzee, Jim sterling, Movie Bob, and IGN/Gamespot. there are some parts of the fandom that are nostalgic for the werehog sections! The werehog sections!

 

[sXeth]

I enjoyed that it was at least something more than a bunch of slapped together action scenes seemingly roadmapped by drunk frat boys, and it certainly had more heart, but it did take me three nights to watch entirely. Jared Leto nearly single-handedly ruined the prior 220+ minutes by reminding us just how god-awful his rendition of Joker is though.

Also...wtf.

Oh and another thing, it never even occurred to me that the original director also did the first couple Avengers movies. Like, how on earth could such a vast chasm of quality be present between two studios. It’s almost like he sabotaged JL, or just didn’t have squat around to prop his work up.

I think most people forget that Whedon got to stand on the shoulders of giants, proverbially speaking, to make Avengers. He got handed a team-up film with 6 (I think it was?) films of work already done for him. And a solid bankable lead star established in rDJ (Hemsworth and Evans not really having come to their own at that point).


Compared to two films, one of which had middling reception, and the other being a complete trainwreck. And of the charatcers carried over, the main one who'd been developed significantly spent half the movie being dead.

 

[Samtemdo8]

I'm about as dark in this situation as you are. I saw that post in the Kong forum, and I just assumed it showed people being spoiled. Nothing more and nothing less. Spoil people running away from their shallow and empty lives. You know that Linkin Park song "Easier To Run". It's what they're doing.

you know how unpleasable the Sonic fanbase can get. I know there are good people in the Sonic fan base. I'm one of them and I've met several, but you still have a whole bunch of people that are shattered and don't know what they want. When they got rid of most of the side characters in recent Sonic games, people complained that there was nothing for them to do. After people complained that there were too many characters. Though that one's just not the fandom's part, but professional critics like Yahtzee, Jim sterling, Movie Bob, and IGN/Gamespot. there are some parts of the fandom that are nostalgic for the werehog sections! The werehog sections!

Can't be worse then finding the Master Emerald shards in Adventures 1 and 2

 

[deleted20220709]

DELETED

 

[BrawlMan]

Can't be worse then finding the Master Emerald shards in Adventures 1 and 2

That's where you're wrong! I'll take the master emerald shards a 1,000 more times over the werehog sections. The ME sections are short and a case of memorization. The were hogs sections were long, tedious, frustrating, and monotonous. If I want to play Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, or God of War, I'll play those games. They do not belong in a Sonic game. A running and platforming game that is all about speed!

 

[Piscian]

Let's not shit on Whedon too much. The man has a solid understanding of making ensemble movies and series work and it isn't easy bringing six superheroes, four of which have had their own movies prior to the team up movie, together and making something that gels in terms of story and theme. Whedon nailed both Avengers and Age of Ultron because he (or rather he and his writing team, because they deserve equal credit here) excels at putting larger then life characters in the same scene and playing them off of each other to full effect. The script for Avengers also understood that the most important dynamic for a first team up movie is to address the differences in the team and playing that to the hilt. Avengers works because the story is about four large egos struggling to get along, but finally finding common ground when the chips are down. It is basic storytelling but it is very hard to do well.

Justice League's major fault, at least in the original cut, is partially that Whedon and Snyder have very different sensibilities and Snyder's aggressively serious and demur tone doesn't fit with Whedon's rapid fire dialogue and sarcastic quipping. But the major issue is that there are no real stakes in the League coming together, Batman finds them all and tells them the stakes and everyone's onboard and a-ok. The stakes are getting revived Supes back to normal, which makes JL's core plot more of a nested doll plot in which they constantly struggle to bring Supes back to normal instead of making Cyborg, Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Batman struggle to find common ground.

I don't really bother calling it Joss Wedons Justice League. All the changes are pretty transparently studio exec notes. I think he could have fought a bit harder for a longer cut, not gone overboard with the jokes, but I kinda suspect this was just a payday for him. 30 mil in his pocket to go make some indie project, probably got some option deals for future films. At the end of the day though none of the extended cut quite works without the darkseid, motherboxes and finished CGI for Stephenwolf. Sort of a house of cards Joss wasn't given the money or runtime to do.

One thing I would have changed is the black suit. I like it but I recall RLM or someone else pointing out it was kind of out of character. As a writer I would added a scene after the fight with the league of him being noticably weakened and the ship offering him a krystonian suit to help him out, but I actually the suits just supposed to be a nod. Maybe they coulda had a jor-el moment where he offers the suit for whatever reason. idk.

 

[sXeth]

Let's not shit on Whedon too much. The man has a solid understanding of making ensemble movies and series work and it isn't easy bringing six superheroes, four of which have had their own movies prior to the team up movie, together and making something that gels in terms of story and theme. Whedon nailed both Avengers and Age of Ultron because he (or rather he and his writing team, because they deserve equal credit here) excels at putting larger then life characters in the same scene and playing them off of each other to full effect. The script for Avengers also understood that the most important dynamic for a first team up movie is to address the differences in the team and playing that to the hilt. Avengers works because the story is about four large egos struggling to get along, but finally finding common ground when the chips are down. It is basic storytelling but it is very hard to do well.

Justice League's major fault, at least in the original cut, is partially that Whedon and Snyder have very different sensibilities and Snyder's aggressively serious and demur tone doesn't fit with Whedon's rapid fire dialogue and sarcastic quipping. But the major issue is that there are no real stakes in the League coming together, Batman finds them all and tells them the stakes and everyone's onboard and a-ok. The stakes are getting revived Supes back to normal, which makes JL's core plot more of a nested doll plot in which they constantly struggle to bring Supes back to normal instead of making Cyborg, Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman and Batman struggle to find common ground.

As the record goes, I didn't really think Avengers was all that stupendous either. Honestly, the MCU didn't really pick up much until Winter Soldier for me. Most of the rest was under-developed and horribly predictable. And the conflicts in Avengers all felt forced.... well, because they literally were in the plot, Loki was messing around with their minds. And there was never even a vague sense of stakes that the team wasn't going to pull through.


Age of Ultron was just pure filler, designed entirely to set up future movies and little else. Ultron's arc and plan is prettymuch laughable, and every other element of it is to introduce characters rapid-fire for use in later films.

JL of course, struggled with both being predictable, and having the conflicting styles of direction. Also the movie was less centred around forming and resolving the Justice League, then swatting them around enough to establish the need to ressurrect Superman.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah, also wasn't too impressed with Avengers.

Especially when one of the reasons that they are fighting is the shocking revelation that the US is building weapons. You're on a flying aircraft carrier, and you work in the military-industrial system. This should not come as a surprise.

Also, not a fan of Whedon humour, myself.

 

[PsychedelicDiamond]

What the fuck even needs to be "restored" ? I admit I don't follow this stuff at all, as DC has never been a big favorite of mine, but, seriously the fuck needs restoring? Are they wanting them to travel back in time and "restore" it to the original release several years ago?

I think what they want is the original plan for five movies by Snyder to be realized, meaning two more Justice League sequels directed by him. I think he had a pretty clear outline for them before the whole kerfuffle back in 2017 happened.

Personally, I'm fine with it ending at Justice League. It is clear that he never wanted it to be his last movie in the series but it concludes his work with these characters on a high note and is obviously a labour of love. Sure, I wouldn't mind to see where he's going with all those postapocalyptic flash forwards but at this point I simply don't see him reaching a long term agreement with Warner Brother anymore. Mind you, I still can't bring myself to empathize with Warner over Snyder's fans.

I enjoyed that it was at least something more than a bunch of slapped together action scenes seemingly roadmapped by drunk frat boys, and it certainly had more heart, but it did take me three nights to watch entirely. Jared Leto nearly single-handedly ruined the prior 220+ minutes by reminding us just how god-awful his rendition of Joker is though.

Also...wtf.

Oh and another thing, it never even occurred to me that the original director also did the first couple Avengers movies. Like, how on earth could such a vast chasm of quality be present between two studios. It’s almost like he sabotaged JL, or just didn’t have squat around to prop his work up.

Have you seen Avengers recently? It's almost definitely not as good as you remember. As a matter of fact it's in a lot of ways a pretty poorly executed action movie. Whedon's a hit and miss writer and a pretty poor director and big action spectacles are way out of his ballpark. He has a very specific talent for a very specific type of witty dialogue, one that gets old pretty quickly when you're exposed to ot too much, but Spielberg he isn't. The Russo Brothers are hardly excellent directors themselves but their two Avengers movies are miles better than his.

2017 Justice League was exactly what you'd expect to get when you take Snyder's version, and then call Whedon and say "Hey, Avengers guy, make this movie more like Avengers, also make sure it stays under two hours!". Even if you like Whedon and his Avengers movies, you just gotta face that his style doesn't mesh with Snyder's at all. You take a movie made by a guy who does kinda artsy, operatic superhero epics and then you replace him with someone who pretty much makes sitcoms with action scenes. It's kinda like if Miyazaki had abandoned Spirited Away a few months before it was finished and Ghibli had hired the writers of Shrek to make it more marketable. It was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The kind of decision that makes sense to a boardroom full of people who are well experienced in business but completely illiterate when it comes to the actual artistic process of making movies.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

What I really want is a Zack Snyder Shadow the Hedgehog movie.

 

[BrawlMan]

What I really want is a Zack Snyder Shadow the Hedgehog movie.

​