US 2024 Presidential Election

[Trunkage]

Can't really recall such ways. Bush didn't have the extreme corruption or treasonous behavior during elections nor a pandemic to go bungle. In fact it can even be said that Bush went well above what was expected with him with AIDS.

Economy could be a point in Trump's favor, but not one large enough to make up for the corruption, the stoking of civic divisions and the dereliction of duty during the pandemic. That and Trump seems tear at the economy whenever he's allowed to endulge in his whims for too long. Not bothering to get off his ass during covid was costly, as is this useless war.

Ah... Bush did have to deal with a pandemic. He just was an adult about it. He listened to his advisors and acted appropriately

Trump, on the other hand, continually contradicted health experts and many times himself. That's why Covid killed more Americans than the Spanish Flu

 

[Trunkage]

I don't recall Clinton fans trying to hunt down Biden and force him to install her as president nor create a whole alternative reality of of whole clothe.

Say what you want about Bush and Gore but it was close, and the supreme court did have to get involved. This unlike Biden and Trump where Trump just blindly insisted he won because he just really wanted to win.

No, its worse than that

Roger Stone lead a riot to stop the recount (I think it might have been the second recoint). The Supreme Court decided not to restart the count even though they knew Roger Stone started the riot deliberately to stop the recount.

It does not mean I think Gore won as they had one recount already... he also lost by less than 200 votes

Gore conceeded when he lost by a few votes. Trump still has not conceeded and he lost by tens of thousands in each state. The gulf between the two people is vast

 

[tstorm823]

I mean, there were plenty of riots that Republican did in the two months leading up to Jan 6. This included burning Black majority churches

When we talk about Jan 6, we are talking about that specific riot being worse than all the other MAGA riots. If you want, we can dredge up all the other ones too like you are doing

Here is a list of attacks on African American churches:

List of attacks against African-American churches - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are actually zero in the two months leading up to January 6th. The only event in the list with any seeming connection to Trump-era Republicans is from 2016, when an arson came with the words "Vote Trump", but then was found to have be perpetrated by a member of the church who committed arson to cover up another crime and used the graffiti to try to divert suspicions to outsiders.

If you'd like to "dredge up all the other ones too", I'd be more than willing to show you that they almost all don't exist.

 

[tstorm823]

Say what you want about Bush and Gore but it was close, and the supreme court did have to get involved. This unlike Biden and Trump where Trump just blindly insisted he won because he just really wanted to win.

It was close, and the Supreme Court did get involved, and were there a similar issue in 2021 where the election was not being thoroughly decided in a timely manner, I guarantee the same outcome. Schadrach made comment about Trump just causing a constitutional crises by delaying the normal procedures, and perhaps in another world where Pence played along that would have happened, but the Supreme Court would have shut it down in like 6 seconds, and anyone imagining any other outcome is delusional.

It isn't just that election though. The 2024 election, I believe, is the first presidential election in my entire lifetime where the Democrat lost and didn't initiate recounts, lawsuits, or audits of the election results. It was, I am certain, the first time in my lifetime that Democrats allowed a Republican to be certified as president without objections. Maybe you could imagine that somehow the second election of Trump is less controversial than the first one or either election of Bush 2, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I think that after the 2020 election fiasco, where Democrats fairly criticized the claims of election fraud, were rightfully annoyed by the legal tactics, were justifiably upset at a riot at a government building, and then of course idiotically tried to spin it into conspiracy and insurrection, they had the sense to stop doing all the immature things they used to do but were now calling acts of insurrection.

If the things Trump did in 2020-2021 were so unprecedented, Democrats would not have to change their behavior to distance themselves from it.

 

[BrawlMan]

Pokémon condemns White House for using its imagery

The company says its "mission is not affiliated with any political viewpoint or agenda," in response to the latest White House meme.

www.bbc.com

 

[BrawlMan]

Biatch Trump is panicking.
​

It is beyond disturbing and horrifying, what is going on here. There's nothing to be gained through all this senseless slaughter aside from pathetic ego boosting from a bratty assholes in power, lead by the brattiest asshole of all time. The video goes over several key points:



The bombing of multiple schools and hospitals.
The Trump regime claiming that these were 'accidents' or lying that they were weapon bases they bombed.

The bombing of these oil rigs and refineries are messing up the environment and causing black rain and toxic in the air. They are literally hurting the environment of Iran, and giving them nothing but constant death and destruction.

Trump's regime is also lying about the death of soldiers or those who have been captured in Iran. And if they do reveal something, they try to claim, that these young healthy guys or gals in their twenties and thirties died from a non combat/war related death.

There is disturbing footage here so I wanted to anyone here caution. It will get upsetting.

 

[Bedinsis]

It isn't just that election though. The 2024 election, I believe, is the first presidential election in my entire lifetime where the Democrat lost and didn't initiate recounts, lawsuits, or audits of the election results.

Hillary did none of that.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yeah... you've gotta show me where they actually care about Law and/or Order. There are many EOs that are explicty banned by the constitution that are still in effect now

They arent following the constitution. They are rewriting it. Just like they did to the Bible

Literally every president in history fits this description, you only care when the side you don't like does this.

Ah... Bush did have to deal with a pandemic. He just was an adult about it. He listened to his advisors and acted appropriately

Trump, on the other hand, continually contradicted health experts and many times himself. That's why Covid killed more Americans than the Spanish Flu

Covid killed approximately half the people than the Spanish Flu. Also, most of any policy was dictated by States and not the federal government/president.

Hillary did none of that.

Also, Hillary did call Trump an illegitimate president right after the election.

Hillary Clinton urged to call for election vote recount in battleground states

Alleged irregularities in battleground states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin prompt demands for audit amid concerns over ‘foreign hackers’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bedinsis]

Also, Hillary did call Trump an illegitimate president right after the election.

Hillary Clinton urged to call for election vote recount in battleground states

Alleged irregularities in battleground states of Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin prompt demands for audit amid concerns over ‘foreign hackers’

www.theguardian.com

If that Guardian article is your source you better recheck it; she did not call him that. She said something like that over four years after her defeat, though.

 

[tstorm823]

Hillary did none of that.

Democrats wanted her to, Jill Stein agreed to spearhead the recount efforts. A half dozen Democrats in Congress objected to the certification of electors, and 3 protestors were escorted out of the buildings during certification. Attempts to impeach Trump began before he was even inaugurated, a multi-year mega investigation against him was done based on laundered and misrepresented opposition research, run by an team including two who messaged in private that they would stop Trump from being president, and Clinton herself declared publicly that Trump was illegitimate...

But yes, Clinton did not initiate those legal proceedings. I did not claim she specifically did. I don't think that is a meaningful distinction.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

If that Guardian article is your source you better recheck it; she did not call him that. She said something like that over four years after her defeat, though.

She said it in 2019

Nvm

https://www.npr.org/2016/12/16/505858615/in-leaked-remarks-hillary-clinton-explains-putins-beef-with-her

 

[Bedinsis]

But yes, Clinton did not initiate those legal proceedings. I did not claim she specifically did.

I would argue that you did that very thing.

The 2024 election, I believe, is the first presidential election in my entire lifetime where the Democrat lost and didn't initiate recounts, lawsuits, or audits of the election results.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I don't think that is a meaningful distinction.

You don't think.

 

[Silvanus]

A half dozen Democrats in Congress objected to the certification of electors, and 3 protestors were escorted out of the buildings during certification. [...]

But yes, Clinton did not initiate those legal proceedings. I did not claim she specifically did. I don't think that is a meaningful distinction.

You don't think there's a meaningful difference in scale between ~6 congressmen + 3 protesters on the one hand, and the President of the United States alongside the RNC leadership (which stated that the rioters were engaged in 'legitimate political discourse') on the other?

 

[tstorm823]

I would argue that you did that very thing.

I missed an "s" at the end of Democrats. That was a typo.

 

[tstorm823]

You don't think there's a meaningful difference in scale between ~6 congressmen + 3 protesters on the one hand, and the President of the United States alongside the RNC leadership (which stated that the rioters were engaged in 'legitimate political discourse') on the other?

Not one that would expect to change your opinion about either event.

If in 2020-2021, all the denials of the legitimacy came from a minority of Republican congressman, and only a few people were protesting at the capital, would you agree with them? Would you think that was instead justifiable political discourse?

If in 2016-2017, Obama and the full weight of the DNC had directed their efforts to overturning Trump's victory, would you have opposed them? Would you characterize that as insurrection, and anyone protesting Trump as insurrectionists acting at Obama's bidding?

 

[Silvanus]

Not one that would expect to change your opinion about either event.

If in 2020-2021, all the denials of the legitimacy came from a minority of Republican congressman, and only a few people were protesting at the capital, would you agree with them? Would you think that was instead justifiable political discourse?

I wouldn't agree with them. Just as i don't agree with those ~6 Democratic congressmen who complained in actuality. But i wouldn't be terribly concerned, because it would be such a fringe minority within the party, and no serious effort.

If in 2016-2017, Obama and the full weight of the DNC had directed their efforts to overturning Trump's victory, would you have opposed them? Would you characterize that as insurrection, and anyone protesting Trump as insurrectionists acting at Obama's bidding?

Yes, i'd have obviously opposed them if they had attempted to overturn the legitimate democratic result.

Look, you can speculate all you like that I'd switch positions if the parties were reversed. But all you really have is that sheer speculation. In reality, your party engaged in far, far more expansive efforts to overturn the election, involving the President and party leadership. In reality, that effort was nowhere near matched by a few Dems moaning. And you don't give a shit.

 

[tstorm823]

Look, you can speculate all you like that I'd switch positions if the parties were reversed. But all you really have is that sheer speculation. In reality, your party engaged in far, far more expansive efforts to overturn the election, involving the President and party leadership. In reality, that effort was nowhere near matched by a few Dems moaning. And you don't give a shit.

I don't have to speculate, we've had this discussion.

In my state in 2020, Democrats opened de facto early voting in only the Democratic areas, effectively bribed people with sandwiches to go to them, banned people connected to Republican campaigns from the premises, told elderly people (who lean Republican) not to leave their homes to vote, and kicked the Green Party off the ballot. We've had this discussion. You defend their behavior. If Republicans did half of these things, you would wet yourself in anger over it, but you come on here and argue with me that it's all perfectly appropriate when Democrats actually do it.

...and no serious effort.

There's no serious effect of any of the methods they were hoping could change the outcome in 2020. Your reaction to it is more real than an effect on the US government. There was never anything to be worried or upset over, you just want to be upset.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't have to speculate, we've had this discussion.

In my state in 2020, Democrats opened de facto early voting in only the Democratic areas, effectively bribed people with sandwiches to go to them, banned people connected to Republican campaigns from the premises, told elderly people (who lean Republican) not to leave their homes to vote, and kicked the Green Party off the ballot. We've had this discussion. You defend their behavior.

Because early voting and sandwiches are not the same thing, to anyone approaching this conversation in an even remotely honest way. These are minuscule measures aimed to increase turnout in a state. You can say they were employed cynically or unequally. OK, even if they were, that would make it... about 0.01% as serious as Elon Musk's voter "giveaway" bribe. Or the endless Republican efforts to suppress turnout amount groups that historically don't favour them, like black neighbourhoods or postal voters.

Early voting and sandwiches, Bast almighty.

 

[Hades]

effectively bribed people with sandwiches to go to them

What sort of fool sells their vote for just a sandwitch. At least the people bribed by Elon wanted money.

Was it a tasty sandwitch?