Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Gordon_4]

Just so we are all clear. You think a gay Palestinian could be part of Hamas

Hamas - like most terrorist ideologues - put forward a big game about the purity of their organisation, and that's enforced pretty hard at low to mid level. But once you get to the old bastards who might have had coffee with Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon or Yhitzik Rabin the values tend to be much more fluid about who they use and accept. Because they didn't get old in this game by not breaking the rules whenever it was expedient to do so and have a back pocket full of flowery bullshit to baffle their unwashed masses with to justify it.

Now I consider it unlikely a gay Palestinian man would work for Hamas unless his family or people he cared about were under direct threat of violence; but Mossad would not be doing their job if they didn't at least ask some token questions.

 

[tstorm823]

Just so we are all clear. You think a gay Palestinian could be part of Hamas

Do you think the family that filed that tip agreed to characterize him as gay? The premise is that he would be lying about being gay to get into Israel to attack them.

 

[Trunkage]

Do you think the family that filed that tip agreed to characterize him as gay? The premise is that he would be lying about being gay to get into Israel to attack them.

The family could have called him Hamas so he did not leave the country. This could be A) they actually want him back because they think Israel is dangerous. They're posioning the well B) targeted him as a gay man C) targeted him as an Israeli conspirator d) targeted him for something else e) its all a smoke screen for Hamas because the family works for Hamas e) It could have happened under the same situation as Kareen. A family member felt forced to give our name as part of asyulm process. Typically, in those situations, people just blurt out people's names they know, regardless of guilt f) Kareem is in Hamas and is lying about being gay

There is no evidence in this story about whether the family even knew he was gay. I dont know if part of the process of applying for asylum, his sexual status was made known. He might not be targeted for being gay

The exploiting part is where Kareem is asked for name Hamas members. Just because they family says he is, does not mean its true. Mossad should be checking intel. Saying his status is dependant on him naming Hamas members is very silly. You arent going to get good leads. But then, as seen by other people in Netanyahu adminstration, they presumed guilt

 

[tstorm823]

There is no evidence in this story about whether the family even knew he was gay.

The exploiting part is where Kareem is asked for name Hamas members. Just because they family says he is, does not mean its true. Mossad should be checking intel. Saying his status is dependant on him naming Hamas members is very silly.

Feel free to reread the article. It says that rumors of his sexuality were spreading, his father set his cousins to spy on him, and explicitly threatened him with death were he to come out. That's quite a bit of evidence his family knew.

The word "exploit" is only actually used in the headline, with all references in the body of the article to such things done with insinuations. The author (and legal advocates) put together "the implication of quid pro quo", that they won't deport or imprison people who cooperate with intelligence, but the individual case they present is of someone who apparently had no intel to give but has still neither been imprisoned nor deported.

 

[Trunkage]

Feel free to reread the article. It says that rumors of his sexuality were spreading, his father set his cousins to spy on him, and explicitly threatened him with death were he to come out. That's quite a bit of evidence his family knew.

The word "exploit" is only actually used in the headline, with all references in the body of the article to such things done with insinuations. The author (and legal advocates) put together "the implication of quid pro quo", that they won't deport or imprison people who cooperate with intelligence, but the individual case they present is of someone who apparently had no intel to give but has still neither been imprisoned nor deported.

So it comes down to my definition of 'knew'. I was meaning that it was sure that they 'knew' and you saying knew is it that they are following rumors 'knew'. Okay. Like, that's a reason for me to believe they werent in Hamas. They would punish people based on rumors

Yeah, to me the quid pro quo was the problem/ exploit. This might be different if Gazans had another choice. There are quite a few countries who would do the same as Israel. But most people have alternative countries they could seek Asylum with. Also, threatening deportation if they dont comply.

Israel might be the most pro-LGBT country in the region. That's not saying much. That's like saying Stalin is better than Hitler. Yes, that's true but that does not make Stalin a good person. And considering Iran's stance on transgender people, I dont know if its true. Or maybe Israel is better with the gays and Iran is better with trans.

I totally recognise this is a one sided article. I dont understand why you would threaten someone over something you can generally safely assume to be fake. Maybe Mossad had more evidence he was part of Hamas and they will never tell us. Mossad has kept secret whether they have done nuclear testing for 50 years. They dont tell anyone anything. This is the price you pay for keeping secrets

 

[tstorm823]

I dont understand why you would threaten someone over something you can generally safely assume to be fake. Maybe Mossad had more evidence he was part of Hamas and they will never tell us.

Where in that article does it indicate that Mossad threatened him?