Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Gordon_4]

Just so we are all clear. You think a gay Palestinian could be part of Hamas

Hamas - like most terrorist ideologues - put forward a big game about the purity of their organisation, and that's enforced pretty hard at low to mid level. But once you get to the old bastards who might have had coffee with Yasser Arafat and Ariel Sharon or Yhitzik Rabin the values tend to be much more fluid about who they use and accept. Because they didn't get old in this game by not breaking the rules whenever it was expedient to do so and have a back pocket full of flowery bullshit to baffle their unwashed masses with to justify it.

Now I consider it unlikely a gay Palestinian man would work for Hamas unless his family or people he cared about were under direct threat of violence; but Mossad would not be doing their job if they didn't at least ask some token questions.

 

[tstorm823]

Just so we are all clear. You think a gay Palestinian could be part of Hamas

Do you think the family that filed that tip agreed to characterize him as gay? The premise is that he would be lying about being gay to get into Israel to attack them.

 

[Trunkage]

Do you think the family that filed that tip agreed to characterize him as gay? The premise is that he would be lying about being gay to get into Israel to attack them.

The family could have called him Hamas so he did not leave the country. This could be A) they actually want him back because they think Israel is dangerous. They're posioning the well B) targeted him as a gay man C) targeted him as an Israeli conspirator d) targeted him for something else e) its all a smoke screen for Hamas because the family works for Hamas e) It could have happened under the same situation as Kareen. A family member felt forced to give our name as part of asyulm process. Typically, in those situations, people just blurt out people's names they know, regardless of guilt f) Kareem is in Hamas and is lying about being gay

There is no evidence in this story about whether the family even knew he was gay. I dont know if part of the process of applying for asylum, his sexual status was made known. He might not be targeted for being gay

The exploiting part is where Kareem is asked for name Hamas members. Just because they family says he is, does not mean its true. Mossad should be checking intel. Saying his status is dependant on him naming Hamas members is very silly. You arent going to get good leads. But then, as seen by other people in Netanyahu adminstration, they presumed guilt

 

[tstorm823]

There is no evidence in this story about whether the family even knew he was gay.

The exploiting part is where Kareem is asked for name Hamas members. Just because they family says he is, does not mean its true. Mossad should be checking intel. Saying his status is dependant on him naming Hamas members is very silly.

Feel free to reread the article. It says that rumors of his sexuality were spreading, his father set his cousins to spy on him, and explicitly threatened him with death were he to come out. That's quite a bit of evidence his family knew.

The word "exploit" is only actually used in the headline, with all references in the body of the article to such things done with insinuations. The author (and legal advocates) put together "the implication of quid pro quo", that they won't deport or imprison people who cooperate with intelligence, but the individual case they present is of someone who apparently had no intel to give but has still neither been imprisoned nor deported.

 

[Trunkage]

Feel free to reread the article. It says that rumors of his sexuality were spreading, his father set his cousins to spy on him, and explicitly threatened him with death were he to come out. That's quite a bit of evidence his family knew.

The word "exploit" is only actually used in the headline, with all references in the body of the article to such things done with insinuations. The author (and legal advocates) put together "the implication of quid pro quo", that they won't deport or imprison people who cooperate with intelligence, but the individual case they present is of someone who apparently had no intel to give but has still neither been imprisoned nor deported.

So it comes down to my definition of 'knew'. I was meaning that it was sure that they 'knew' and you saying knew is it that they are following rumors 'knew'. Okay. Like, that's a reason for me to believe they werent in Hamas. They would punish people based on rumors

Yeah, to me the quid pro quo was the problem/ exploit. This might be different if Gazans had another choice. There are quite a few countries who would do the same as Israel. But most people have alternative countries they could seek Asylum with. Also, threatening deportation if they dont comply.

Israel might be the most pro-LGBT country in the region. That's not saying much. That's like saying Stalin is better than Hitler. Yes, that's true but that does not make Stalin a good person. And considering Iran's stance on transgender people, I dont know if its true. Or maybe Israel is better with the gays and Iran is better with trans.

I totally recognise this is a one sided article. I dont understand why you would threaten someone over something you can generally safely assume to be fake. Maybe Mossad had more evidence he was part of Hamas and they will never tell us. Mossad has kept secret whether they have done nuclear testing for 50 years. They dont tell anyone anything. This is the price you pay for keeping secrets

 

[tstorm823]

I dont understand why you would threaten someone over something you can generally safely assume to be fake. Maybe Mossad had more evidence he was part of Hamas and they will never tell us.

Where in that article does it indicate that Mossad threatened him?

 

[Trunkage]

Where in that article does it indicate that Mossad threatened him?

They told Kareem to give info to make the process easier, right?

A way to make it not easier is to deport Kareem. Slowly down an asylum process is not a threat as the alternative is death at the hands of his family. Making it a 'hard process' means denying asylim

Saying that at the time of writing that he's in Tel Aviv, does not mean he is there now. Unfortunately, we wont get an update either way, so we will probably never know

 

[tstorm823]

They told Kareem to give info to make the process easier, right?

The article never actually claims this (link for convenience).

They say Kareem was pressed for information, but that's as far as his personal claims go. All the bits about quid pro quo or promises not to deport were generalized claims by lawyers. Unless I've missed something, there is nothing there to claim he was told giving information would make a difference in his asylum process.

 

[Silvanus]

Palestinian baby shot dead by Israeli troops in occupied West Bank

The seven-month-old, Sam Fahd Abu Haikal, was in his mother’s arms when soldiers fired on family in Hebron

www.theguardian.com

IDF soldiers at Hebron ordered a car stopped (not at a checkpoint, broad daylight). Car stopped as requested. IDF then opened fire. 7-month old child killed.

 

[Gergar12]

There's this funny idea that US policy should be to convert as many countries as possible to civic democracies the whole Clinton and George W Bush delusion. Even if that were easy, it's a bad idea. I don't want North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia to be actual democracies that's against US interests. Then they could outfight the US like Ukraine vs Russia, reform their economies, and have functional civil societies. If the US really operate in Iran's best interest it would find a reformer in Iran, notice how they want the Shah's son who would be wildly incompetent or a Iranian Conservative president whose got baggage as he's assumed with the old regime.

 

[Agema]

There's this funny idea that US policy should be to convert as many countries as possible to civic democracies the whole Clinton and George W Bush delusion. Even if that were easy, it's a bad idea. I don't want North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia to be actual democracies that's against US interests.

Your ill-will towards and desire for dominance over these countries and people merely justifies their desire to bring down the USA.

 

[Gergar12]

Your ill-will towards and desire for dominance over these countries and people merely justifies their desire to bring down the USA.

More like revenge.

 

[Seanchaidh]

More like revenge.

not even the theoretically correct reason to prefer other countries be dictatorships, which is that it's easier to keep one official onside than a plurality of an entire public.

sheesh.

anyway,

Translated from Hebrew
For every tear of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must weep. All of Lebanon must burn!

With all due respect to the Americans, Israel must make it clear to the entire world that the blood of our sons and the security of our citizens are not forfeit. All of Lebanon must burn. Our supreme duty is to protect the citizens of Israel and the soldiers of the IDF, and this commitment takes precedence over every other consideration.

I told the Prime Minister, even in our private meetings: For every tear of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must weep. Enough with the ping-pong. In the Middle East, you don’t win with measured responses and restraint—you need to go berserk. To obliterate. To crush the terror.

This is about revenge for soldiers who died in Lebanon. 'Israel' should be dismantled.

 

[Gergar12]

not even the theoretically correct reason to prefer other countries be dictatorships, which is that it's easier to keep one official onside than a plurality of an entire public.

sheesh.

anyway,




This is about revenge for soldiers who died in Lebanon. 'Israel' should be dismantled.

No more like it's easier to not have to deal with a competent civilian government, and military since democracies tend to fight better a general rule, and are generally more competent. More on this in a thread I will start about the US and the thread about Stars Wars, Grand Admiral Thrawn, and Autocratic Governments.

Edit: Also I will have a section on Israel in my Middle East Thread some time soon, and basically it mentions how Israel's goal is to be a hyper-power in geopolitics by taking over the middle-east, why doing so as a both a religious, and ethnic group is a bad idea, why in the long run it's against US interests, what US interests are in the middle east (Don't let a super power take hold in the Middle East in detail), and why they are doing it as a response to historic ,and current antisemitism. I also don't believe Israel wants to be another Singapore or Taiwan in the long-run like many naive policy-makers in the EU (Germany for example), and the US believe it is.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Good news, everyone! The Committee to Protect Journalists will solve the problem of israel repeatedly topping the charts in the killing of journalists (so they can start naming and shaming the "worst offenders" again). According to Mohammed El-Kurd:

NEW: The Board of Directors at the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) will formally change its definition of who qualifies as a journalist, to broadly exclude slain Palestinian and Lebanese journalists who worked for government-funded media outlets. Israeli, American, and Ukrainian journalists who work for state-funded outlets or are embedded with the military will remain recognized as journalists, of course. The move was catalyzed to appease the right-wing Zionist rag The Free Beacon, which has repeatedly accused Palestinian and Lebanese journalists of being undercover militants or used their political opinions or affiliations as justification for their killing by the IOF. This is a racist scandal of massive proportions for everyone involved, and it makes a mockery of the purported mission of the organization. It is absolutely abhorrent that the organization’s resources are wasted on this cowardly witch-hunt, at a moment in history that is the deadliest for journalists, especially in Palestine and Lebanon.

CPJ's Cover-Up of Israel's Journalist Mass-Murder Spree is Complete (1 of 4)

Jodie Ginsberg's CPJ spent 2 years pretending experts couldn't determine if Israel was intentionally murdering journalists

memoryandaccountability.substack.com

Resources documenting this phenomenon are scant, as you'd expect in the case of relatively new information about arcane matters like who is labeled a journalist in a database. This is CPJ's spin on the matter:

CPJ undertakes review of its documentation of journalists killed in Israel-Gaza war since 2023 - Committee to Protect Journalists

New York, June 25, 2026—The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) is conducting a full review of its database of journalists killed during the Israel-Gaza War after militant groups Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) published obituaries identifying as combatants individuals previously...

cpj.org

Note: the details of these cases matter quite a lot, and make the difference between a set of fair reevaluations and a self-serving summary of bent rules and distortions. Those details are not present. But this might be telling:

“CPJ has always been clear that we do not include anyone in our data sets if there is evidence that they were engaging in combat or inciting imminent violence,” said CPJ CEO Jodie Ginsberg. “This is consistent with international humanitarian law, which considers journalists affiliated with non-state actors to be civilians, provided they do not directly participate in hostilities.”

"Inciting imminent violence" is an interesting disqualification. What incites imminent violence? Does factual reporting about shooting a child in the head incite imminent violence against the shooter or their organization? Arguably it might! Especially if the reporter has the temerity to include or imply an opinion about the matter of the murdered child rather than maintaining strict journalistic neutrality. And in case anyone was not aware and was wondering, international humanitarian law does not consider the incitement of violence, imminent or otherwise, to qualify someone as a combatant. So Jodie Ginsberg's claim that "this is consistent with international humanitarian law" is strange; she's carving out a new distinction and pretending IHL agrees with her.

If you're familiar with the Zionist terror regime's propaganda on Twitter about the journalists it has killed (this guy once posed holding someone else's AK-47, he must be a combatant ), you'll find parallels here:

 

[Seanchaidh]

 

[Cicada 5]

 

[Seanchaidh]

Water is, of course, a threat to the state of israel because israel is in danger of being dissolved.