1 button nade tossing has to stop in online multiplayer

[Neverhoodian]

honestly, without it grenades are underpowered.

I think grenades are underpowered in games because they don't do enough damage. You could just go for realism by having a switch time and greater damage, which would be an alternate way to balance it. It's all about the system that involves less random grenade deaths while keeping grenades actually useful, IMO.

Agreed. Your typical frag grenade has an effective kill or wound radius of fifteen to twenty meters, with individual fragments sometimes flying much further than that. I wouldn't mind making grenades more cumbersome to use in games if it resulted in a similar degree of destruction.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

I really don't care either way, I just used nade instead of grenade because it's shorter. I do feel "nade" works as a better verb like "nade base 1" compared to "grenade base 1" but that's about it.

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Switching to a grenade isn't slow. In fact, I can throw a grenade faster in Metal Gear Online than in COD because there is no "cooking" of grenades in Metal Gear Online, plus everyone runs around with grenades out and quick taps R2 to switch to their primary.

If you've tried the Uncharted 3 beta the game plays a lot slower, and it's not nearly as fluid as Uncharted 2.

I don't mind regen health in single player, I still prefer a health bar though. However, I feel regen health totally breaks multiplayer. Warhawk has probably as much stuff going as you can in a multiplayer game, and that games works just fine with a health bar. MAG plays like any other FPS and has a health bar, which then allows for someone to focus on being a medic, if health regen was in that game, you wouldn't have that playstyle available.

 

[JochemDude]

Don't you know grenades only become overpowered when you scream 'frag out' first?

Seriously though, I have much more hatred against a knife under a button than a grenade. Just make the animations better, (Get grenade, Pull pin, Trow. (Get knife, Point pointy edge towards target, Stab or slash, repeat as necessary, Sheet knife) It's sooooo simple. Same goes for guns by the way. Slow is teamwork and tactical ('cause more people can keep up), Fast is exploits and jerky reflexes ('cause some people can't keep up).

Also fuck regen health, one bullet to chest or head is dead. Add a believable difficulty of shooting a gun on target and some random deviation and I'm happy.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Don't you know grenades only become overpowered when you scream 'frag out' first?

Seriously though, I have much more hatred against a knife under a button than a grenade. Just make the animations better, (Get grenade, Pull pin, Trow. (Get knife, Point pointy edge towards target, Stab or slash, repeat as necessary, Sheet knife) It's sooooo simple. Same goes for guns by the way. Slow is teamwork and tactical ('cause more people can keep up), Fast is exploits and jerky reflexes ('cause some people can't keep up).

Also fuck regen health, one bullet to chest or head is dead. Add a believable difficulty of shooting a gun on target and some random deviation and I'm happy.

I hate the knife button as well. I play Metal Gear Online and your gun, knife, pistol, and grenades are all on the R2 button and you have to cycle to them; knifing is actually hard and guns beats knives in a gun fight in Metal Gear Online unlike COD (this guy is shooting me, I'm going to run up and knife him bullshit). If you use one button to cycle through your weapons (instead of just using longer animations), then you don't need a grenade button, a knife button, and you can incorporate more actions into the game since you have more buttons available.

With health regen, it's not even that I want realism. It's just that if a guy was hit then he should be at a health disadvantage for a teammate or I to more easily kill when we next encounter him.

 

[Katana314]

I don't get how cycling through weapons via a shoulder button is complex. Plus, with that setup, there are more free buttons on the controller to implement new things. It's win-win if you ask me. If every game used this setup, everyone would be used to it like how when you pick up any FPS, the control scheme is exactly the same.

It is complex, period. It requires more button presses, which in the heat of the action is more confusing to someone not used to those kind of controls.

Press a Direction on D-pad (and D-pad isn't a very direct tactile thing; people often hit the wrong direction), press trigger, vs just press trigger - it's pretty obvious which one is easier to remember in the millisecond it matters.

I think it's actually easier as when you switch to nades, you then throw them the same way you shoot, L1+R1 (or triggers on the 360). And, if the game has other support items like traps or something, you would plant them in the same exact manner as you would shoot as well.

Really, pressing the wrong direction on a d-pad (maybe if you are using a 360 d-pad)? A good portion of most gamer's lives has been spent using a d-pad. Hell, in Metal Gear Online, I'm using the d-pad while trying to aim at someone's head while leaning left and right.

You're arguing that someone "should already be used to something"...

That's not a valid stance to take. What makes the best FPS in the world great is that it can be picked up by anybody for its smooth, intuitive controls. Most games reserve the D-pad for a last-resort switching of modes. Modern Warfare and the grenade launcher, God of War and the different spells, etc.

You do have a good point about similarity in usage; just treating grenades as another weapon same as any other. But when an action needs to be done quickly, it becomes an inverted problem; mainly, it can't have any confusion to it.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

Martyrdom Perk anyone?

Anyway, I really have no problem with it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You're arguing that someone "should already be used to something"...

That's not a valid stance to take. What makes the best FPS in the world great is that it can be picked up by anybody for its smooth, intuitive controls. Most games reserve the D-pad for a last-resort switching of modes. Modern Warfare and the grenade launcher, God of War and the different spells, etc.

Millions of people buy and play the new COD on day 1 because they are used to it. I vividly remember the first time I played a FPS on a controller, it was whatever Unreal game launched with the PS2 at a friends place, and I found the controls awkward, weird, and unintuitive. I thought the controls flat out blew, and now it feels like I've known how to play FPSs my whole life. Now everyone is used to playing FPSs on a controller and it's 2nd nature to just about every gamer.

Sometimes you just gotta get used to something. Just because you can't pick up and play right away doesn't mean the controls are bad or unintuitive. And, pressing one more button to throw a grenade isn't changing the fundamentals or reinventing the standard shooter control scheme, it's just slightly tweaking them is all.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The thing is that the one button works just fine in other games so there is no reason to change it. You already have several unused buttons in most fps games so its not like you need to free up any more. I have actually never seen a fps that uses all of the buttons on a console.

My feeling on the subject is that if it works then dont fix it, and it works just fine in most games.

The topic covers all shooters, not just FPSs. Metal Gear Online uses all the buttons, which is a game that allows you to grab enemies, plant C4 on them, and let them run around until you feel like making them explode. MAG uses everything but the d-pad, and if you add in FPS leaning to MAG (which I don't see why FPSs don't have it), MAG would be using left and right on the d-pad as well and then only not using up and down on the d-pad.

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

I completely agree with this as well. It's stupid that you can bring a knife to a gun fight and win.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

I really don't care either way, I just used nade instead of grenade because it's shorter. I do feel "nade" works as a better verb like "nade base 1" compared to "grenade base 1" but that's about it.

I think referring to grenades as "nades" has to stop, personally.

This. Also, that entire post is opinions. In my opinion, Uncharted is based around fluid control, and having all your options at the touch of a button is a core of the series. You don't have a weapon wheel, and you don't switch to grenades.

Also, whenever they're throwing the grenade at you (during which time they aren't shooting you) to kill them. If they try and cook the grenade, you can kill them easily. If they don't, you can finish killing them and still have time to roll away, if the barely aimed and small blast radius grenade even comes close to injuring you in the first place.

Similarly, regenerating health is key to the fluid control of the series. No tedious "where the fuck are the health packs?", no backtracking to look for one you may have seen ten minutes ago. Ditto for multiplayer, where I prefer regenerating health in everything except ultra-realistic simulation type games, or maybe the occasional class based game. Of course, this is all my opinion.

Switching to a grenade isn't slow. In fact, I can throw a grenade faster in Metal Gear Online than in COD because there is no "cooking" of grenades in Metal Gear Online, plus everyone runs around with grenades out and quick taps R2 to switch to their primary.

If you've tried the Uncharted 3 beta the game plays a lot slower, and it's not nearly as fluid as Uncharted 2.

I don't mind regen health in single player, I still prefer a health bar though. However, I feel regen health totally breaks multiplayer. Warhawk has probably as much stuff going as you can in a multiplayer game, and that games works just fine with a health bar. MAG plays like any other FPS and has a health bar, which then allows for someone to focus on being a medic, if health regen was in that game, you wouldn't have that playstyle available.

MGO =/= Uncharted. What works in one game doesn't work in another. Also, I played the Uncharted 2 beta quite a while recently, and what you described happened once. I rolled away and killed him. I probably didn't even need to roll, because grenades in that game are incredibly weak.

Also, the entire point of Uncharted is fluid control. You make the point of Uncharted 3 being less fluid than UC2, well than making you switch to grenades would make that even worse, wouldn't it?

You picked two games that didn't have health regeneration, and said that because it wouldn't work in those games it doesn't work in any games. So two games that were designed from day one to not have to health regeneration, would not be improved by health regeneration. Hmm. On top of that, Warhawk is based around spawning with nothing and running out to go grab some good weapons and equipment. Within that framework, health packs make sense and fit well. Mag is a class based shooter with an emphasis on team work, where people who can heal you are nearby and encouraged to do so.

Let's look at CoD. Removing regenerating health from CoD removes a central component of the series, and there's no easy way for them to work in any other kind of healing system without even more dramatically changing the game. Therefore, non-regenerating health ruins any game ever no exceptions. See what I mean? That doesn't make any sense. Different systems work for different games, and one button grenades and regenerating health work for Uncharted.

 

[bjj hero]

Grenades should stay unaltered. In FPS's the grenade is your counter to camping. It all has its place. If you play hardcore then bullets, grenades and melee are all lethal and it is far more balanced.

 

[Woodsey]

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

And one button, one letter is the greatest fiend of all.

Ttoonniigghhtt wwee ttyyppee iinn ddoouubblleess!

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Throwing a grenade i've found doesn't work unless you "cook" it, so either the winner needs to learn to move out the way or shoot faster. I think it works fine as it is.

this, or shoot "smarter"

don't run around like a dumbass with your head chopped off, it's third person and semi tactical for a reason, running around lobbing cooked grenades? fine, its an anti rusher strategy, i can live with that.


I haven't played the beta much but if it's at all like uncharted 2 mutli, then it is perfectly fine and you just need to learn how to dodge and shoot right, plain and simple.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

1 button grenade throwing is sort of annoying and is one reason for grenade spam. My proposal is limiting the number of grenades and availability players have to them, also make them more powerful and having a larger AoE, but forcing the player to either switch to them or hold down the one button grenade throw. Holding down the button for at least 1 second will cause the player to take out the grenade and pop the pin. Holding on to it longer will allow the player to "cook" it. This will prevent accidental grenade deaths and decrease spamming. It will also force players to be more careful when picking their targets.

Seconded...


My largest gripe with grenades is that they are underpowered. Take a look at the lethal damage range of a standard frag grenade and compare that to the grenade radius in game. Keep in mind this is not the explosive radius of the grenade, this is the 'everything in this radius is guaranteed mush' range of the grenade. Frag grenades have been known to kill people up to 100 meters away from the point of detonation and often have a casualty radius larger then the throwing distance of the grenade!

That casualty radius represents an area where you can not guarantee a kill but where the target is likely to be put out of commission through life-threatening injury if not instant death. It is the reason why you are taught to thrown grenades from cover and to get your arse back behind it as soon as you do. In game, the most you get these days is a red hud from a near point blank explosion....

Making the grenade take longer to retrieve, arm and then throw is only reasonable if they made grenades the deadly threat they are in real life.


Added: Frags in game act more like HE grenades then anything else, which where very poor styled grenades. Aside from just increasing the AOE of the grenade, they should implement proper fragment effects by having the grenade 'shoot' out projectiles in random directions at the moment of detonation. This would make frag grenades behave more like the real world counter parts and create the several different radii you would find in a grenade. A instant kill radius that will guarantee death, A casualty radius in which you will still likely end up dead but not guaranteed and the 'safe' radius that can still sometimes have a piece of frag lodge into your head if you are really unlucky.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Ttoonniigghhtt wwee ttyyppee iinn ddoouubblleess!

Ddaammnn ppaanniicc kknniiffeerrss!

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

One button, one hit kill melee has to stop more.

Agreed....

People don't have a massive 'off' switch that the butt of a rifle can magically press. You have to really pound them hard, again and again, to find that switch.

 

[valleyshrew]

Yeah grenades are sorely underpowered. I really think games should be realistic and go for the 50 meter fatal radius that grenades in real life have. That would make games more fun and less of that pesky skill or balance that gaming snobs gripe about.

 

[Poisoni]

The first FPS I ever played was Halo 2 - a game that revolved around tossing as many grenades as you could find (I assume multiplayer was more skilled online) and I still play Halo 3 today. One button grenade throwing has always seemed like a good idea to me because in (Halo/CoD/Battlefield/most FPSs) an uncooked grenade is easily dodged with a jump/sprint to a slightly different place and on CoD it actually takes quite a while to throw a Semtex or cook a Frag, so the "chuck grenade at floor when losing" school take a massive beating. I don't know about Uncharted but I assume that even if you can throw grenades instantly and make it a draw this is a flaw with Uncharted not with all FPSs.
I don't think cycling to grenades as a weapon would work in Halo AT ALL because anyone with a vehicle would splatter anyone unprepared and anyone prepared for vehicles would be shot/beat down. Also, I'd like to know how I would deflect a rocket with a plasma grenade if I had to get it out of my pocket first.

I agree with the point on one-hit-melees though. The only game I've played that I like the melee system in is Halo 3 because you have to weaken them before it kills or use it to weaken them before killing; also there is barely any lunge so no commando-style epic fist-propelled flights.

 

[Kopikatsu]

The first FPS I ever played was Halo 2 - a game that revolved around tossing as many grenades as you could find (I assume multiplayer was more skilled online) and I still play Halo 3 today. One button grenade throwing has always seemed like a good idea to me because in (Halo/CoD/Battlefield/most FPSs) an uncooked grenade is easily dodged with a jump/sprint to a slightly different place and on CoD it actually takes quite a while to throw a Semtex or cook a Frag, so the "chuck grenade at floor when losing" school take a massive beating. I don't know about Uncharted but I assume that even if you can throw grenades instantly and make it a draw this is a flaw with Uncharted not with all FPSs.
I don't think cycling to grenades as a weapon would work in Halo AT ALL because anyone with a vehicle would splatter anyone unprepared and anyone prepared for vehicles would be shot/beat down. Also, I'd like to know how I would deflect a rocket with a plasma grenade if I had to get it out of my pocket first.

I agree with the point on one-hit-melees though. The only game I've played that I like the melee system in is Halo 3 because you have to weaken them before it kills or use it to weaken them before killing; also there is barely any lunge so no commando-style epic fist-propelled flights.

Uncharted has melee like that, where you have to put 2-3 bullets into them before the melee would kill.

It's hit detection is kind of wonky, though. I've both been killed by and have killed with melee AFTER dying. MELEE FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE.