Should The Avengers Be at the Oscars?
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
Damnit, don't do this to yourself, Bob.
We had EXACTLY the same conversation about this very subject last year with Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2, a film that I definitely agree should have been nominated for Best Picture, at the very least to honor the achievement in filmmaking history that was the completion of the Potter franchise. What did we get for it? Absolutely nothing. Zip. Zero. No Harry Potter movie has won a single Oscar.
I am all for the attempt to gain the Academy's respect for genre films, as the "old white male" sensibilities of the Academy are really getting on my nerves, and this sense of snobbishness is holding back genre films from proper cultural approval. But, we have to take baby steps with this. There is no way in one thousand years that the Academy is going to let The Avengers get within a 10-foot radius of the Best Picture podium. It goes against everything that their "traditional" cultural sensibilities want to be up there. I loved the Avengers, deeply, and I'm hoping beyond hope that Joss Whedon might get a screenplay nod for it, but I am harboring no unrealistic expectations for a Best Picture nod. If any genre film this year gets a Best Picture nod, I'm putting my chips on The Dark Knight Rises, both because it falls much more in line with the Academy's sensibilities, and it could be considered as an "apology" for the Dark Knight snub debacle in 2008. They clearly seem to realize that they made a mistake there, as they changed the entire format of the Best Picture nominees as a result of it, whether they admit that or not.
Do I think genre films deserve spots up on the Oscar podium? Of course I do. Do I think that that attitude is going to change this year? No, especially after we all got burned on the Harry Potter stuff from last year. Do I think that The Avengers is going to get a Best Picture nod? Of course not. Surprises are always possible (remember Sigourney Weaver's Best Actress nomination for Aliens? Well-deserved and awesome), but I'm not holding my breath.
We had EXACTLY the same conversation about this very subject last year with Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2, a film that I definitely agree should have been nominated for Best Picture, at the very least to honor the achievement in filmmaking history that was the completion of the Potter franchise. What did we get for it? Absolutely nothing. Zip. Zero. No Harry Potter movie has won a single Oscar.
I am all for the attempt to gain the Academy's respect for genre films, as the "old white male" sensibilities of the Academy are really getting on my nerves, and this sense of snobbishness is holding back genre films from proper cultural approval. But, we have to take baby steps with this. There is no way in one thousand years that the Academy is going to let The Avengers get within a 10-foot radius of the Best Picture podium. It goes against everything that their "traditional" cultural sensibilities want to be up there. I loved the Avengers, deeply, and I'm hoping beyond hope that Joss Whedon might get a screenplay nod for it, but I am harboring no unrealistic expectations for a Best Picture nod. If any genre film this year gets a Best Picture nod, I'm putting my chips on The Dark Knight Rises, both because it falls much more in line with the Academy's sensibilities, and it could be considered as an "apology" for the Dark Knight snub debacle in 2008. They clearly seem to realize that they made a mistake there, as they changed the entire format of the Best Picture nominees as a result of it, whether they admit that or not.
Do I think genre films deserve spots up on the Oscar podium? Of course I do. Do I think that that attitude is going to change this year? No, especially after we all got burned on the Harry Potter stuff from last year. Do I think that The Avengers is going to get a Best Picture nod? Of course not. Surprises are always possible (remember Sigourney Weaver's Best Actress nomination for Aliens? Well-deserved and awesome), but I'm not holding my breath.
In agreement with what has been said so far. I enjoyed The Avengers, but I don't see it getting a Best Picture nod. It's too early to tell for one: lots of time for better movies to come out. And had it not been for the banter between the characters, the movie would have just been so-so. If the Academy does decide to give it some attention, it will probably be in the screenplay category, since that (in my opinion) is really what put the movie over the edge.
You know, a part of me thinks that the big awards shows should just drop the 'Best Picture' award altogether. Bob's right, there are some movies and some genres that you really can't compare side by side, so why do it? I know it's nice to have one award that serves as the 'big event' at the end of each show, but I would prefer that to be something like a lifetime achievement award for someone well respected in the industry. There's already a separate award for best animation, so why can't there be one for 'best comedy', or 'best action' etc, whilst just dropping the notion that any one movie from these vastly disparate genres has to be considered the best? That way, all genres and styles get fairly represented as having the same level of legitimacy as each-other, less good movies lose out as they'll be a far bigger pool of total nominees, and it also makes it easier on the academy to pick who wins, as they'll only ever be comparing movies of similar sensibilities.
Should the Avengers be at the Oscars? If by "at the Oscars" you mean "parking cars for Oscar attendees," then yes. There was nothing extraordinary about Avengers other than its length. Two plus hours of gravitas-crushing one liners, industry average special effects, and a plot with more holes in it than Dick Cheney's driver do not add up to anything even remotely Oscar-worthy.
Actually, as much as I loved the effects in The Avengers, I just went to the midnight premiere of Prometheus, and HOLY SHIT. If that film doesn't sweep the technical awards, something is seriously wrong with the Academy's brains. That was one of the most visually and auditorially arresting movies I've seen in a long time.bigdork said:
Best Costumes, though, I can totally agree with.
Those old scat-heads, give an Oscar to something that's that popular? Not a chance in hell. They despise fantasy. Three tries just to get on the board with Lord of the Rings? Eight movies and not a single Oscar for something as decade-spanning as Harry Potter?
Don't get your hopes up. The Avengers was good, great, even, but not nearly pretentious enough to get an Oscar.
Don't get your hopes up. The Avengers was good, great, even, but not nearly pretentious enough to get an Oscar.
See, this is exactly the kind of attitude that some of us thinks need to change. The one that can't see past the film and that it is "just entertaining" and instead look at what an achievement this "popcorn movie" really is. How much actual effort went into it and how well it succeeded on every level that it was trying to accomplish something on, not to mention being a landmark in film history for trying and succeeding in adapting comic-book style continuity. If you can pull a "toll of war" message out of Return of the King, then surely we can all pull a message about "traditional one-man heroism in today's day and age" out of The Avengers.j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
Not saying it should get a spot mind you (lots of movies coming out before the Oscars, though even with the ones you mentioned there will be room for more), but snubbing it off because it is "a popcorn flick" is just narrowing your view and holding the awards back from seeing the big picture in my book.
Name 1 concrete plot-hole in The Avengers please.metaldemoni said:
Because you want to see how long an awards show can go on?Maxtro said:
OT: There probably should be an "exceptional achievement" Oscar for movies like Harry Potter and the Avengers, where there is no justifiable reason to give them one of the main awards, but the movie achieved something unique or a milestone in cinema.
At the very least, they can toss a few technical awards in the Avenger's direction...
I think it should get a nomination. We know it will not win best picture because there are other films that will deserve the award more, but it's a good way to kill the us vs them of the awards since the awards are seeming less about the movies most people see and more of an elitist retreat.
Plus I see it as a bit of a Star Wars moment. Yes there were sci fi films before Star Wars, but Star Wars found a way to make sci fi into a cultural event that resonated with people long after so many Oscar winners are forgotten. Avengers took the idea of the super hero film and turned it into something more.
But I think other people are right that if the Oscars really want to resonate with the general public again they have to go with more than just Best Picture, Best Actor, and then loads and loads of technical awards. The show would be far more interesting with Best Comedy and Best Action film than Best Costuming or Best Sound Editing.
Plus I see it as a bit of a Star Wars moment. Yes there were sci fi films before Star Wars, but Star Wars found a way to make sci fi into a cultural event that resonated with people long after so many Oscar winners are forgotten. Avengers took the idea of the super hero film and turned it into something more.
But I think other people are right that if the Oscars really want to resonate with the general public again they have to go with more than just Best Picture, Best Actor, and then loads and loads of technical awards. The show would be far more interesting with Best Comedy and Best Action film than Best Costuming or Best Sound Editing.
For once, I agree entirely with Bob.
The Oscars ignore a number of quality films and snub quality productions solely to maintain their image problem; it's narcissism plain and simple, and that is something they CANNOT sweep under the "It's the Academy's Opinion" rug.
My problem with all of this is not with the Academy's Final opinion of what is called "The Best Artistic Film", it's with how their snubbing of genre films conflicts with their alleged premise: That the Oscars are about rewarding the highest achievements that FILM (meaning ALL FILM) has accomplished that year.
So how can you claim that when you're disqualifying any genre BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO personal opinions/merits of a given film. It doesn't matter if it's disqualified by default.
That's like saying "Even though the Constitution says any legal US Citizen can run for President, we say that you can't run unless you're a Democrat or a Republican."
...wait.
The Oscars ignore a number of quality films and snub quality productions solely to maintain their image problem; it's narcissism plain and simple, and that is something they CANNOT sweep under the "It's the Academy's Opinion" rug.
My problem with all of this is not with the Academy's Final opinion of what is called "The Best Artistic Film", it's with how their snubbing of genre films conflicts with their alleged premise: That the Oscars are about rewarding the highest achievements that FILM (meaning ALL FILM) has accomplished that year.
So how can you claim that when you're disqualifying any genre BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO personal opinions/merits of a given film. It doesn't matter if it's disqualified by default.
That's like saying "Even though the Constitution says any legal US Citizen can run for President, we say that you can't run unless you're a Democrat or a Republican."
...wait.
Loki's tricked Thor before with that whole clone thing. Yet, somehow he didn't think the Hulk was a big enough threat to use on him, even though he was counting on the Hulk to take down the entire superhero team. Plus he apparently decided to never get up and walk away at any point.Silverspetz said:
Everyone keeps pointing their guns at Bruce Banner, even after he just gets done telling them he put a gun in his mouth and the Hulk just spit the bullet out. That one really ground my gears.
If Bruce Banner's always mad, why isn't he always the Hulk. (face it, they wanted to give him something cool to say, but it doesn't make any sense)
How come Fury didn't dispatch any of those soldiers he's got all over the carrier with some experimental weapons Agent Coulson had? Even if they just had the one weapon, those elite soldiers would probably have been at least as helpful as the girl with a pistol and the guy with a bow.
There's four, people can probably come up with more.