Physicists Tie Fluid Into a Knot

JonB

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Sep 16, 2012
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Physicists Tie Fluid Into a Knot



The vortex knot was first theorized a century ago, but only created in a lab this year.

Physicists at the University of Chicago have created a vortex knot in a lab environment, a feat which has been theorized for a century but had never been successfully attempted. Creating a vortex knot is, according to a University of Chicago press release, "akin to tying a smoke ring into a knot." Physicists have been puzzled as to why a vortex knot isn't a stable phenomenon, in theory it should be, but in practice they stretch themselves out and break up. The stretching culminates in a reconnection event, where loops elongate, circulate in opposite directions, and then collide. As they collide, parts of the vortices annihilate other parts - unlinking and unknotting the vortex. All of this is sounds very complex, but in reality is a matter of forces smashing into each other and cancelling each other out. The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances in turbulence, plasma physics, ordinary fluids, and exotic superfluids - where knots likely appear, but are difficult or impossible to observe.

"We look at plasma physics and turbulence every day in the sun," Study researcher William Irvine said. Those fields have many mysteries, long unsolved, that could be better understood by knowing how a vortex knot works. Plasma flows behave in highly complicated ways, but the electrically charged gas they're composed of behaves and transfer energy much like air in a vortex knot. Additionally, Irvine thinks that "knottedness" is probably a conserved quality - like energy and momentum. "If confirmed, this would deepen our understanding of the dynamics and connections between many disparate fields," Irvine said. "We don't know if its true or not, but I think we can finally test this in experiment. There's actually around 50 years of theory on this subject with no clean experiments.

The experiment was inspired by videos of dolphins blowing air-core vortex rings. Researchers replicated what the dolphins were doing using 3D-printed hydrofoils, and they went through about 30 different shapes before they got the vortices they wanted. The different shapes were captured by a high-speed camera, primarily outlined by bubbles in the water. "The bubles are a great trick because they allow you to see the core of the vortex very clearly," said Irvine. In the future, the team hopes to scale up their research to create larger, more stable rings.

Source & Image: University of Chicago [http://news.uchicago.edu/article/2013/03/04/vortex-loops-could-untie-knotty-physics-problems]


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martyrdrebel27

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so... science is magic? that's what I always take away from these articles. I get so excited at the continuing accomplishments of humanity, but everytime i read one of these articles, the details are just waaaay over my head. leaving me with no other logical conclusion than "yup, magic."
 

Mojo

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Here is the video to it if anyone is interested:

"We do what me must, because we can." Is sort of relevant here.
 

1337mokro

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DVS BSTrD said:
JonB said:
blah, blah science blah, blah
The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances blah[/I] plasma physics, blah and exotic superfluids blah
blah, blahmore science blah, blah
So you're saying we're one step closer to plasma rifles? I think that's what you're trying to say.
Then I aprove.
Actually yes that is what he is saying.

Technically speaking a plasma rifle is nothing but superheated matter until it ionizes and then gets fired out in a spherical form that does not dissipate. We could compromise a bit and shoot it out in vortex form, which would be allot more painful and devastating seeing as the destructive powers would fluctuate and damage different areas as it passes through.

We could basically use a foil to create a vortex that ranges up to a few feet using a plasma reservoir.

So yes. When the aliens come we will be ready.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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I'm always a little disappointed when these articles don't mention the original theorist, who was scorned by and rejected from scientific circles, and how his grandson is the one who finally completed the work, only to be maimed in a horrible lab accident and end up swearing vengeance on the city/science/his friendly neighbourhood vigilante.
 

JonB

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Sep 16, 2012
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DVS BSTrD said:
JonB said:
blah, blah science blah, blah
The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances blah[/I] plasma physics, blah and exotic superfluids blah
blah, blah more science blah, blah
So you're saying we're one step closer to plasma rifles? I think that's what you're trying to say.
Then I aprove.
My friend, that is exactly what I'm saying to you here.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Thunderous Cacophony said:
I'm always a little disappointed when these articles don't mention the original theorist, who was scorned by and rejected from scientific circles, and how his grandson is the one who finally completed the work, only to be maimed in a horrible lab accident and end up swearing vengeance on the city/science/his friendly neighbourhood vigilante.
maybe escapist gets "extra money" from the "Friendly neighboarhood vigilante"?


This is what i call science for science. tieing knots with fluids.
 

Your Gaffer

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Oct 10, 2012
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martyrdrebel27 said:
so... science is magic? that's what I always take away from these articles. I get so excited at the continuing accomplishments of humanity, but everytime i read one of these articles, the details are just waaaay over my head. leaving me with no other logical conclusion than "yup, magic."
It is not as complex as it seems. A vortex is just a spinning fluid. Stir some water in a cup, you will create a vortex. They have managed to create a knotted vortex, you can see the water spinning in a knot shape in the picture. Really pretty simple when you break it down.

EDIT: The math used to calculate how these vertices form and dissipate is more complex.
 

Treblaine

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1337mokro said:
DVS BSTrD said:
JonB said:
blah, blah science blah, blah
The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances blah[/I] plasma physics, blah and exotic superfluids blah
blah, blahmore science blah, blah
So you're saying we're one step closer to plasma rifles? I think that's what you're trying to say.
Then I aprove.
Actually yes that is what he is saying.

Technically speaking a plasma rifle is nothing but superheated matter until it ionizes and then gets fired out in a spherical form that does not dissipate. We could compromise a bit and shoot it out in vortex form, which would be allot more painful and devastating seeing as the destructive powers would fluctuate and damage different areas as it passes through.

We could basically use a foil to create a vortex that ranges up to a few feet using a plasma reservoir.

So yes. When the aliens come we will be ready.
Well considering the immense damage that spitzer bullets do fired from a rifles (think decapitating head detonations and instant limb amputation) I always wondered what the point in Plasma rifles was. Maybe it was for a future where extremely effective and lightweight ceramic composite body armour has propagated and only plasma weapons stand a chance against them?

But I think it's mainly a desire came for something different and "futury" and possibly a perception from Bowdlerised Hollywood films that make firearms seem much weaker than they actually are.

I'm kind of a hard sci fi guy, I need something REALLY special to top metal projectiles fired out of tubes by converting chemical energy into pressure.

I mean looking at Star Trek (A New Hope), it hints at how potent blasters can be, like how greedo smoked like he'd been fried in an electric chair after Han shot first.
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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martyrdrebel27 said:
so... science is magic? that's what I always take away from these articles. I get so excited at the continuing accomplishments of humanity, but everytime i read one of these articles, the details are just waaaay over my head. leaving me with no other logical conclusion than "yup, magic."
Now now, what is this Arthur C. Clarke rule? Any form of technology that is sufficiently advanced will be indistinguishable from magic. This kind of feat is incredible NOW, whereas as little as 10 or 20 years ago anybody making the claim would be laughed off the stage. Fifty years ago, anyone who is NOT a hippy (Because they'd just go "Far out!".) would be looking for aliens or communists. A hundred years or more? Burned at the stake for witchcraft.

Science is fucking amazing at times.
 

martyrdrebel27

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Your Gaffer said:
martyrdrebel27 said:
so... science is magic? that's what I always take away from these articles. I get so excited at the continuing accomplishments of humanity, but everytime i read one of these articles, the details are just waaaay over my head. leaving me with no other logical conclusion than "yup, magic."
It is not as complex as it seems. A vortex is just a spinning fluid. Stir some water in a cup, you will create a vortex. They have managed to create a knotted vortex, you can see the water spinning in a knot shape in the picture. Really pretty simple when you break it down.

EDIT: The math used to calculate how these vertices form and dissipate is more complex.
i get that part, what i don't understand is how you can shape spinning water into a knot, and what i further don't get is how that somehow translates to crazy next-gen tech achievement....

1. Spin Water
2. Tie spun water into a knot.
3. ????????
4. Profit!
 

martyrdrebel27

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Feb 16, 2009
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Thunderous Cacophony said:
I'm always a little disappointed when these articles don't mention the original theorist, who was scorned by and rejected from scientific circles, and how his grandson is the one who finally completed the work, only to be maimed in a horrible lab accident and end up swearing vengeance on the city/science/his friendly neighbourhood vigilante.
are you a fan of Leftover Crack?
 

1337mokro

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Dec 24, 2008
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Treblaine said:
1337mokro said:
DVS BSTrD said:
JonB said:
blah, blah science blah, blah
The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances blah[/I] plasma physics, blah and exotic superfluids blah
blah, blahmore science blah, blah
So you're saying we're one step closer to plasma rifles? I think that's what you're trying to say.
Then I aprove.
Actually yes that is what he is saying.

Technically speaking a plasma rifle is nothing but superheated matter until it ionizes and then gets fired out in a spherical form that does not dissipate. We could compromise a bit and shoot it out in vortex form, which would be allot more painful and devastating seeing as the destructive powers would fluctuate and damage different areas as it passes through.

We could basically use a foil to create a vortex that ranges up to a few feet using a plasma reservoir.

So yes. When the aliens come we will be ready.
Well considering the immense damage that spitzer bullets do fired from a rifles (think decapitating head detonations and instant limb amputation) I always wondered what the point in Plasma rifles was. Maybe it was for a future where extremely effective and lightweight ceramic composite body armour has propagated and only plasma weapons stand a chance against them?

But I think it's mainly a desire came for something different and "futury" and possibly a perception from Bowdlerised Hollywood films that make firearms seem much weaker than they actually are.

I'm kind of a hard sci fi guy, I need something REALLY special to top metal projectiles fired out of tubes by converting chemical energy into pressure.

I mean looking at Star Trek (A New Hope), it hints at how potent blasters can be, like how greedo smoked like he'd been fried in an electric chair after Han shot first.
Technically speaking the plasma COULD be made out of a metal.

So you would have plasma based on metal fired out of a gun. Though my thought is that the plasma rifle can basically work on air. Because it really is nothing but superheated matter and you could pretty much suck in air and fire out plasma, so limitless ammo seems nice and of course the fact that it has special applications for space combat. You can take a bullet and patch up the hull, you can't really do much to a shot that liquefies whatever it touches..
 

Hero in a half shell

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Dec 30, 2009
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1337mokro said:
DVS BSTrD said:
JonB said:
blah, blah science blah, blah
The researchers' findings in creating a knot are relevant to many fields, and could lead to advances blah[/I] plasma physics, blah and exotic superfluids blah
blah, blahmore science blah, blah
So you're saying we're one step closer to plasma rifles? I think that's what you're trying to say.
Then I aprove.
Actually yes that is what he is saying.

Technically speaking a plasma rifle is nothing but superheated matter until it ionizes and then gets fired out in a spherical form that does not dissipate. We could compromise a bit and shoot it out in vortex form, which would be allot more painful and devastating seeing as the destructive powers would fluctuate and damage different areas as it passes through.

We could basically use a foil to create a vortex that ranges up to a few feet using a plasma reservoir.

So yes. When the aliens come we will be ready.
Aliens? Pfft. We won't be using them against aliens.


The really sad thing is that someone not only decided to create that video, but went through with their idea right up to and including loading it into Youtube, also his Youtube channel is exclusively 10 minute videos of repeated Arnold Schwarzenegger lines. And he has 227 subscribers. Explain that science.
 
Jan 12, 2012
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martyrdrebel27 said:
Thunderous Cacophony said:
I'm always a little disappointed when these articles don't mention the original theorist, who was scorned by and rejected from scientific circles, and how his grandson is the one who finally completed the work, only to be maimed in a horrible lab accident and end up swearing vengeance on the city/science/his friendly neighbourhood vigilante.
are you a fan of Leftover Crack?
Nope; until I googled them just now, I'd never heard of them. Why?