120: The Angel in the Guild

[Katana314]

I can see the escapist has touched on a nerve here. I'm starting to wonder if girls simply feel victimised just because of the WAY GUYS AND GIRLS ARE.

This doesn't even apply to video games; for guys, derogatory comments and insults are basically friendly parts of a conversation that don't mean anything for any long period of time. Girls are a bit more likely to take it personally, and generally look to be supported by their peers.

I studied this sort of thing in my english class and I'm starting to realize that what girls may think they're feeling just because they're "girl gamers" is really just because they're girls. The same sort of situation might apply for just about any male-dominated social activity.

And I want to state this again...the escapist has enough discussions on girls in games. I'm not adverse to them, they were good discussion...just please try to find a new topic.

 

[Chilango2]

I think it should again be noted that she's taking the crap from the members of her guild *by design*. As such, her role becomes something like an unofficial Guild Counselor, it worked for her, she didn't seem to be unhappy, and the Guild was fine. I'm certintly not going to criticize her for the way she fits into a inherntly unfriendly environment. That being said, there are other valid choices as how to handle the situation, among them marievB's.

More generally, I think we get on dangerous ground when discussing the way "guys and girls just are." Not all girls will take joshing around that personally, and not all male friendships are like that either (more to the point, the fact that they are like that can be seen as a problem, from a certain perspective). It's certintly safe to say that some of what girl gamers face is certaintly diffrent qualitivily and quantitivily than anythign experienced by the men, and that this is *because* it is a male dominated space in which women are beggening to be more common, but are not yet normal.

In short, there is a tension in gaming communities much as there was in workplaces and other common areas that women began to enter, and that tension will eventually work itself out and people will learn how to play in such a manner that girls can be "just like guys".

Nonetheless, while it is working it out, its worth discussing whats occurring. Certainly, the fact that articles such as these draw response indicated to me that the subject is not per se "tapped out."

 

[Psychoicy [deprecated]]

This is a well written article, but I fear the interviewee may have provided a false account of her game experience. My name is Christine and my World of Warcraft handle is Psychoicy. I was the other female in the guild had mentioned, although many may not know, because gender is not something I emphasize in game. She was not the only woman in the guild, and her contribution to that guild has been minimal. In fact, she rarely attended raids and was not well liked due to her poor performance as a player and also her involement in numerous drama, public conflicts between players. The man who called her after her raid would most likely be her real life boyfriend and not some random guy on the internet.

I hope this information helps.

 

[Chimaera]

Although it has been expressed that the topic of 'women in games' has been played out to death (sometimes I agree, in that the way it is looked at is done to death - but by no means do I think the topic itself is exhausted) - I think what would have made this article stronger is quite honestly, if the 'angel' in question had been male. Profiling a woman filling a stereotypical type of role in a guild is interesting in a way, though, in that it is probably something that happens with a lot of guilds (not mine, apparently, at least that I know of).

I do concur with goodpoltergeist, in that varied situations in MMOs cause drama, and it is most definitely not limited to women. DM makes a valid point as well here, "I'd like to see a culture where sharing one's feelings was normalized and dialogue was valued instead of all of it going on "behind the scenes."" Unfortunately, due to the relative ease of being able to just 'turn it off', it's pretty unlikely that's going to happen. Ah well.

Still a nice thought though.

 

[bociwen [deprecated]]

Firstly, this is Boci from Band of Brothers (in AO) and later cofounder of the original Midnight Reveries (amongst others) and one of the more well known soldiers to "old school" players of that game, and a long time friend of Legion. Case in point, I still game with Legion to this day.

For all your efforts in WoW, which I cannot speak about, there is one glaring and obvious lie in your entire article/interview. Phetia (or oreilly as you call her here) is not, and never was, the only female in Legion.

This in itself may be a simple and insignificant thing to lie about, but it leads to the question: if one portion is a lie, could the rest be too?

 

[Chilango2]

The article didn't imply she was the only girl, but rather spoke about the fact of how she functioned in the guild *as a leader*.

I'm sure that the fact that the article didn't mention the other people there si the cuase of some giant conspiracy to lie you about everything and the article should be dismissed in its entirety.

Please.

 

[i2fenix [deprecated]]

The article didn't imply she was the only girl, but rather spoke about the fact of how she functioned in the guild *as a leader*.

I'm sure that the fact that the article didn't mention the other people there si the cuase of some giant conspiracy to lie you about everything and the article should be dismissed in its entirety.

Please.

It should.

 

[Chilango2]

Why? Even if we're to grant that the story is fiction, that is, made up, even fiction based on certain themes can elucidate a point about a culture or subculture. This article does that.

Certaintly, it is not as if the fact that women use various coping strategies (one of which is demonstrated in this article)to "fit in" with a male dominated culture with occasionally heavy sexism is some sort of radical idea with no grounding. I'm honestly confused as to why you would doubt the article. It doesn't even seek to make a point so much as describe a situation, so disagreeing with it per se doesn't quite make sense to me. You can, of course. argue that gaming culture is not sexist..if you so wish.

Honestly, its tempting to attribute the hostility I'm reading in some of the responses here (this article is full of lies! dismiss it! ignore it!) as defensiveness born out of sexism(and yes, one can be sexist against women even if they are female).

 

[Mantovani [deprecated]]

The article didn't imply she was the only girl, but rather spoke about the fact of how she functioned in the guild *as a leader*.

I'm sure that the fact that the article didn't mention the other people there si the cuase of some giant conspiracy to lie you about everything and the article should be dismissed in its entirety.

Please.

I just read through the article and these comments, and if you did to, she did make a point of actually being the only female in both her AO and WoW guilds. So if she needs to make a point of something that is obviously wrong on both accounts (according to comments in this thread), it sort of makes you question what the truth is in the rest of the article. I work alot with people and see quite a lot of people take their own achievements and blow them out of proportion to what is the reality. Most of the time, they actually believe it to be true, but that doesn't make it so. I see many similarities in the way this lady describe herself and her role in a community. And that is why it is interesting that she lies about being the only female in these communities, and hence making her role more "special" than it is and thus using it to explain how she was THE mediator amongst the males. On the other side, it could be that she is telling the objective truth, in which case she should stop playing games and move into councelling or diplomacy, as she would surely have very good skills in those areas according to her own account. Personally I am very sceptical to how this interview is conducted, and to the truth of what this person is saying about herself and her role in the community.

 

[Sinharvest]

haha i got to show liloqui this thread when i get home

 

[the_carrot]

It's interesting. It's possible that, Christine has a point of view on the issues that is worth understanding. But it doesn't really come through that way. In light of some of the comments made, it seems as if it were a matter of perspective, or possibly as if she were defensive about this. Or that those writing the comments are feeling attacked and defending themselves. I wouldn't venture a guess as to who is telling the truth, and who's perspective was more truthful.

I have something of a disregard for whether or not someone is being dramatic, and in fact find the whole online world pretty dramatic. One claiming another to have been such is drama at this point, and is fucking exhausting to hear about, at any length. There are so many scuffles and little skirmishes that turn into huge distortions no matter whose side you've seen. And people's perspectives seem to be determined by what they want to be seen as often.

 

[Liloqui]

Posting in a thread with Fenix and Psychoicy

Look women just logging into a video game is going to cause drama. MMO's are filled with men who fail with the female sex every day. Half of them don't want to login and be reminded of real women. The other half get silly and flirt hardcore with players they know are female. I'll be the first to admit, it's not easy to ignore flirting. I liked being flirted with just as much as any other girl. But this makes that first half pissed off that it's detracting from the game, and honestly it does detract and make a weird atmosphere for some people. But articles that exonerate females for "overcoming MMO sexism"? Give me a fking break. She played you like a fiddle when detailing this article.

But in all honesty, Psychoicy hit the nail dead on the head. I didn't really know Phetia, but Psycho's a hella smart woman and someone I got to know pretty well in the game; her post has more validity than probably anyone else's.

 

[Jou-LotD]

I am one of those sexist guys who doesn't enjoy females in my guild because of the drama they create. Not always from what they say or do but over the problems they create by their mere presence. Generally female gamers have boys falling over themselves just to please them which presents challenges for any leadership to work around. And if you think I am wrong, well go to any comic, video game or car show where "booth babes" are to see my point. To inject one into any hardcore game guild, you are going to find guys where this may be their only chance to talk to a woman.

But, I do know when to recognize leadership capabilities of one. Perhaps you should look outside of the carebear game of WoW for your test subject next time. There are plenty of hardcore gamer girls leading guilds in hardcore games. Like the leader of Murder Herd in Darkfall Online. She has created a cult following and didn't give into the "I'm a girl so I'm special" role. Although her members have propped her up to that level, she doesn't ask for it like the one in this article obviously does. Hell until I heard her in an alliance vent, I thought it was a man leading them and all of the buzz was just a troll attempt of the official DF forums.

And after reading the comments it seems the writer failed to do any real research outside of the info she took from her subject. That's like writing a review on a game by only listening to a developper talking about it. This article is trash and unacceptable. Perhaps the writer should go to MMORPG.com where that sort of garbage is expected and not for the escapist.